Ukrainian versus Russian

[Show Time]

I'm going to the FSU!!

Eventually.

I know, I know, I know.  I gotta get my a$$ over there, I gotta spend some time thinking about what kind of person I would like to meet, I gotta make some contacts, etc.

However, the ONE thing I can do while doing ALL these other things is start learning the language.  The question is which language?

I'm assuming (yes, I know what happens when I assume) that the difference between Ukrainian and Russian is similar to England's English and America's English, but I have been known to be way off.

I can find Russian courses easily enough, but I envision myself eventually going to Ukraine.  What's a guy to do?

Is one language more universal than the other?

HELP!!

[Shadow]

Russian is way more universal.

The difference between Russian and Ukrainian is more than between England and the US English, but not as much that they do not understand each other.
However Russian you will encounter in the whole FSU, and with good command of Russian you could even understand some Slavic languages like Polish, Serbian and Croatian.

Almost all (if not all) Ukrainians will be able to understand Russian, if they will understand your Russian will depend on your effort and talent.

[Boethius]

Russian is way more universal.

The difference between Russian and Ukrainian is more than between England and the US English, but not as much that they do not understand each other.
However Russian you will encounter in the whole FSU, and with good command of Russian you could even understand some Slavic languages like Polish, Serbian and Croatian.

Almost all (if not all) Ukrainians will be able to understand Russian, if they will understand your Russian will depend on your effort and talent.

Very few Russians understand Polish.  Most Ukrainians can. 

In my experience, very few Russians will understand Ukrainian.  However, Serbo-Croation is pretty close to Russian.  So is Czech.

If you are going to Ukraine, learn a few phrases in Ukrainian.  If you, as a foreigner, speak Russian only, in many parts of Ukraine, you will offend the locals.

[Faux Pas]

I'm going to the FSU!!

Eventually.

I know, I know, I know.  I gotta get my a$$ over there, I gotta spend some time thinking about what kind of person I would like to meet, I gotta make some contacts, etc.

However, the ONE thing I can do while doing ALL these other things is start learning the language.  The question is which language?

I'm assuming (yes, I know what happens when I assume) that the difference between Ukrainian and Russian is similar to England's English and America's English, but I have been known to be way off.

I can find Russian courses easily enough, but I envision myself eventually going to Ukraine.  What's a guy to do?

Is one language more universal than the other?

HELP!!

Honestly, do yourself a favor and go over there before buying the Rosetta Stone or signing up for the language courses at the community college. You can find words and phrases in numerous places on the internet to help you through your first trip. I tell you this for a number of reasons 1) you don't need to know the language to visit 2) learning the language enough to converse even badly can take years 3) you may not like the FSU or the language.

Learning the language is a good idea if you are looking to spend large amounts of time there. Most in this pursuit are not, of course there are exceptions. Be warned it is a difficult language to learn and be proficient in. Certainly doable, depending on one's own intellectual pace and capacity but could take years before you could carry on a decent conversation. It could also be the crutch that kept you from making the trip because it is difficult to learn. I strongly urge you to get on a plane and go. Reading about trips on the forum make it appear to be a bigger deal than it is.  It really is as simple as buying the ticket and going.

Good Luck

[Dave13]

I would try and learn some Russian, its a very interesting language, try the Pimsleur language course. The ladies appreciate it!

Dave

[kryten41]

I read somewhere that Russian and Ukrainian languages are just a little more similar than English and German.  In Ukraine, Russian language movies are shown on television with Ukrainian subtitles.

I second the recommendation to learn some Russian using Pimsleur--I studied Pimsleur's Russian One (16 lessons on 8 cds), took a Lonely Planet phrasebook, and learned to read the Cyrillic alphabet before travelling to Ukraine.  All this helped tremendously, and I was able to do it in the 2 months between the time I decided to go, and my departure date.  It is nice to be able to ask where is the toilet yourself, or to make purchases.  There are some entertaining Russian lessons on youtube by a fellow who calls himself Viktor Huliganov.

Congrats on your decision to make the trip.  Enjoy yourself, and good luck!

[Taz]

I'd say learn Russian rather than Ukrainian. It is definitely more universal as mentioned. I have offended local Ukrainians by speaking in Russian but they got over it. They were surprised that a foreigner even could speak it in some of the places I was.

While it is true you may not like RU/UA, odds are you will go back. The sooner your start, the sooner you will develop some basic vocabulary. The women will truly appreciate it. You'll have more women you can communicate with. You'll also understand better what they have to go through to learn English as well though it isn't near as hard as learning Russian.

I personally thinks Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone are so-so. I had much better luck using Ruslan. While my Russian isn't perfect, I am way past conversational. Almost none of my Russian friends speak English and it has really opened up my horizons while there. Even if you learn basic phrases and the numbers, you'll really be surprised by the reaction of most people there.

FYI- almost all Ukrainians 25 and older will understand Russian very well. It is the younger ones that might not. I did run into some young women (20 or so) in Kiev who understood Russian very poorly. Apparently they didn't spend much time with their grandparents.

[Boethius]

I read somewhere that Russian and Ukrainian languages are just a little more similar than English and German.  In Ukraine, Russian language movies are shown on television with Ukrainian subtitles.

Not exactly true.  I speak fluent (native) English.  I don't understand German at all.  A native Ukrainian speaker will understand about 80% of Russian.  It should work vice versa, but for some reason, in my experience, it doesn't.  Which is why I had to learn Russian.

I did run into some young women (20 or so) in Kiev who understood Russian very poorly. Apparently they didn't spend much time with their grandparents.

Very few people in Kiev ever spoke "pure" Russian, unless they were native Kyianins (a definite minority).  Because there are a lot of escapees, they spoke surzhik.  And most escapees spoke Ukrainian in their villages, but surzhik (which I could never learn, and even my better half could not really speak naturally) to "fit" in the city.

[ECOCKS]

If you WANT to take a language course, take Russian. Far more usable in many more areas. As someone says above, any Ukrainians who are offended will get over it soon enough. Simply explain that you're working on Russian so as to better travel and communicate over a larger area of the world. When you are sitting around with your dates or eventual GF, it becomes a great timefiller to have her help you with your Russian acquisition. Probably entertaining for the family as well.

[MatryoshkaMan]

Learn a bit of Russian and don't bother with Ukrainian, you will only get sneers if you try to speak Ukrainian anywhere outside of far West Ukraine. My ex father in law who was born in Ukraine would rather blow up the whole country rather than deal with the current pro-western government. He loves Putin and hates pretty much everything Ukrainian. I know this because I was there in 2007 when there was a lot of politics going on (Yanakovich vs. Yuschenko) and he stayed here last year and he would watch Russian news every morning and just about throw the laptop out the window anytime Yuschenko would be on there.

You don't need to learn a lot - just enough to be considered "cute" UNLESS you want to try to date a women with very little English. Then you are gonna have to unless you want an interpreter to be hovering around all the time which I can imagine could be a big bummer!

[ChrisBfla]

Most Ukrainians speak Russian.  My wife is from Vinnitsa, Ukraine and always says the the Ukrainian language is for the village (we would say hicks).  Her dad is Russian and mother is Ukrainian.  One big advantage of Ukraine over Russia is you don't need a visa anymore to enter the country.

Chris

[Boethius]

Then apparently, everyone in Ukrainian government is a hick .

[gemini]

It is a good idea, you will be able to impress your  date with some Russian  phrases and you will dramatically improve your Russian when your son begin to talk. 

[Shadow]

Very few Russians understand Polish.  Most Ukrainians can. 

In my experience, very few Russians will understand Ukrainian.  However, Serbo-Croation is pretty close to Russian.  So is Czech.

If you are going to Ukraine, learn a few phrases in Ukrainian.  If you, as a foreigner, speak Russian only, in many parts of Ukraine, you will offend the locals.

Then I guess my wife is one of the 'very few'.

[Shadow]

Then apparently, everyone in Ukrainian government is a hick .

That is how they sound to Russians. 
Not fair probably, but true.

[Kuna]

The consensus here is recommending Russian - and that makes good sense.

Most of the women you meet will speak Russian, especially if you're not in Western Ukraine... (Don't believe those claiming Dnepropetrovsk is crawling with Nationalists - I returned 3 weeks ago and that was the opposite to my experience).

A factor you should consider is the proportionately low number of women from Western Ukraine that seem to be listed on the major sites - or at least that was the way it was when I was searching.

Not sure why that is - but if you're seeking marriage a FSUW why limit yourself to a smaller group of women who may very well not be interested in marrying a western man anyway?

[Simoni]

I spend a lot of time in Dnepropetrovsk, and I have the same observation as others concerning political orientation.  However, it is clearly an age issue.  Girls under 35 tend to be more pro-western. Virtually all of Marina's friends are.  Their parents, who are from the soviet era, are pro-Russian.

Over time, as the days of the soviet's rule fade, Ukrainian will once again become the language of Ukraine.

But the simple answer to the OPs question is that Russian is the appropriate language to study.

[Kuna]

I spend a lot of time in Dnepropetrovsk, and I have the same observation concerning political orientation.  However, it is clearly an age issue.  Girls under 35 tend to be more pro-western. Virtually all of Marina's friends are. Their parents, who are from the soviet era, are pro-Russian.

But the simple answer to the OPs question is that Russian is the appropriate language to study.

It's interesting... maybe it's the circles the girls move in.  My wife and her friends are so "pro-Putin" it's not funny. He is clearly idolised by many.

I don't think it would be fair to say they were "anti-western", but certainly the feelings were very much opposed to the Yuschenko agenda of "moving west".

Only one friend (actually a friends husband) was "pro-Western", but then his arguments were more based around his preference for cars - especially Italian Sports Cars.. so he might be right after all!!!   

[Simoni]

It's interesting... maybe it's the circles the girls move in.  My wife and her friends are so "pro-Putin" it's not funny. He is clearly idolised by many.

That's likely correct.  None of Marina's friends like Putin.  But their parents love him. It's human nature to remember the "good ole' days" in a better light than they were, and to senior citizens, the controls of the soviet days were much better than the ups and downs that the world wide recession is providing these days.

But I still think the movement of Ukraine will be away from the Russian sphere as we move onward.  Marina's friends grow more anti-Russian with every false report about Ukraine from the Russian press.  And such reports are numerous.

[Simoni]

Only one friend (actually a friends husband) was "pro-Western", but then his arguments were more based around his preference for cars - especially Italian Sports Cars.. so he might be right after all!!!   

Does your wife love Italy? Mine does--so our trip to Ukraine this summer will include a few weeks in Italy, first.  And personally, I LOVE Italian Sports cars!  We'll see if Hertz rents them :-)

[Shadow]

That's likely correct.  None of Marina's friends like Putin.  But their parents love him. It's human nature to remember the "good ole' days" in a better light than they were, and to senior citizens, the controls of the soviet days were much better than the ups and downs that the world wide recession is providing these days.

But I still think the movement of Ukraine will be away from the Russian sphere as we move onward.  Marina's friends grow more anti-Russian with every false report about Ukraine from the Russian press.  And such reports are numerous.

'

Any examples ?

[Faux Pas]

That's likely correct.  None of Marina's friends like Putin.  But their parents love him. It's human nature to remember the "good ole' days" in a better light than they were, and to senior citizens, the controls of the soviet days were much better than the ups and downs that the world wide recession is providing these days.

But I still think the movement of Ukraine will be away from the Russian sphere as we move onward.  Marina's friends grow more anti-Russian with every false report about Ukraine from the Russian press.  And such reports are numerous.

Thats a bit odd. All my experience is in Russia. All of the people I have engaged political discussion with love Putin to death when discussed outside and within an ear shot of anybody. Inside in more private confines it is a completely different story. One friend put it to me this way:

Her: Faux, do you like your new president?
Me: No
Her: I don't like my president either
Her: Do you have a picture of your president on the wall?
Me: No
Her: This is where we are different. I don't want a picture of him on the wall but I won't let anyone think I do not.


She has a picture of Putin on the wall as well

[ECOCKS]

Tell her she can have your picture of B. "Candyman" Obama to hang next to it then.

[Faux Pas]

Tell her she can have your picture of B. "Candyman" Obama to hang next to it then.

Actually this woman was pretty astute on world politics. A psychologist by profession. She didn't think she liked Barry O. either. Her analogy on the pictures struck a chord with me. I didn't hesitate to say I wouldn't be putting up a picture of B.O. thats when she added, "thats the difference in your democracy and ours"

[Blues Fairy]

"thats the difference in your democracy and ours"

She still calls it democracy, what's going on in Russia?