Pt 1 - What is fair to disclose?

[ECOCKS]

So what would you really be willing to disclose to an agency, as well as authorizing for verification, in return for their anti-scam guarrantee and proactive policing of scammers types? By this I mean the highest possible screening of the gals' backgrounds and references along with face-to-face interviews. If an agency was offering to actively assist you with interpreting not just the langauge but also the likely intentions and history of the galas they began tracking her activity through the site is there a level you would rise to in order to make it worth their while to do this level of checking and analysis?

What other things would be useful to establish bona fides (for the guys)?

ARGH! Left the number of votes blank! Dan, can you edit it to allow maximum number of votes for responses?

[Show Time]

Personally, I would be willing to provide all the items listed. 

I just wouldn't want to be the first.  I would have to have real warm and fuzzy feeling about the agency's intentions.

[Daveman]

For me it would be "none of the above".  I trust my own judgment to weed out scammers, and absolutely do not trust any of my private information in the hands (or database) of an internet dating site.  Just too much mayhem possible.

I prefer to disclose all of that information on an individual 'need to know' basis after I know a specific woman much better.

I don't mind personality types questionnaires, but any personal data is outside my comfort zone -- until, of course, I am comfortable with a woman.

[kievstar]

I would disclose all of the above as I have nothing to hid or be ashamed of.

[Faux Pas]

None of the above without question. I wouldn't expect any of it from the lady either. Personally, thats not information I want laying around in a marriage agency in FSU or anyplace else. Too many with nefarious intentions could find much of that info very useful. These are things that can be openly discussed with the prospective ladies and part of the learning process.

[ECOCKS]

Understandable Dave.

I'm just trying to get an idea of how much people would be willing to provide to give an agency something to really offer up to a serious pool of men to properly vetted gals who were interested in dating. Your answer is, basically, nothing more than simple dating site info is my guess.

That's okay mind you, that was why I was asking. Not every guy is expected to answer the same. My guess is that some number will be unable to take the step of being super serious on a round-the-world search to that degree of information sharing.

Like ST, I would have no problem giving any of that information. Obviously not to Fat Yuri and only to someone who was able to be trusted.

[ECOCKS]

At this point I am only asking about disclosure to an agency to establish the guy as a bona fide candidate not publicizing this as part of the individual's profile.

What I am looking for here is the picture of what an ultra-highend agency would offer in terms of services to the market.

[Daveman]

Okay, let's say hypothetically that there was some fool proof Utopian mega system in place which would really keep my information from being sold, or stolen, or what have you.  In that case, I wouldn't mind any of that information being known to a female counterpart with the same serious interest in finding her soul mate.

Mine is more a hesitancy of CYA.

[Show Time]

Sorry Daveman, didn't see your response.

ECOCKS, if I may, let's put a slighly different spin on the same question.

What if (I know "if" is a little word with a big meaning) when the IMBRA was passed, an office was set up for just this sort of thing.

The government knows our criminal background, our legal status, our marriage history,  and our tax records.  If this office, upon request from a perspective gentlemen, could produce a summary report that says:

Person in question has been convicted of X number of felonies and x number of misdemeanors.

He is a citizen of this country.

He has been married x number of times.

He does or does not meet the minimum financial requirement for the K-1 visa process.

Let's say the government, which already has this information, could pull a quick summary report giving the yeah or nay for, I don't know, $100 - $200, does that change your opinion of it?


As someone just starting out, my biggest fear isn't the woman scamming me, but an agency.  If ECOCKS proposal would make the agency liable for accurately representing BOTH sides of the equation, I would be for something like this.

[Faux Pas]

At this point I am only asking about disclosure to an agency to establish the guy as a bona fide candidate not publicizing this as part of the individual's profile.

What I am looking for here is the picture of what an ultra-highend agency would offer in terms of services to the market.

Ed there seems to be many more sham agencies than honest ones. How is one to know the difference? You didn't mention anything in the way of security. If there was a secure agency and it could be established, I still wouldn't do it.  Personal and financial information isn't safe anywhere

[ECOCKS]

Keep thinking that ST. A few pages of discussion from now, I'm going to be curious about what guys would pay for this service.   

[kievstar]

Hi Ecocks,

I think you will find most men will not disclose anything.  Company I work for right now provides security over financial transactions and private personal records and business is booming.  Why - because people want security over their information.  

Khersengirls in a different thread tonight had a very good post in that men will not pay to run an agency most of us would like to see.  No different than what other agencies have told me.  

You hear about men trying to squeeze the apartment price $10 usd a day, complain about interperter fees, etc.  It takes a big effort to screen women and do matchmaking - a lot more than a $50 usd meeting fee.  Now try to screen men who fall in love with a photo and do anything including lie to impress.  I would charge 15,000 usd a man for this service.  How many would pay this?  First time a man fails he will be on the internet claiming the service is no good.  I paid 15,000 usd and did not get married.

A tip for the men.  When visiting an agency be nice to the girls who work in the agency including bringing gifts and taking them to dinner or lunch sometimes.  Guess what - there the ones who know the girls not the agency owner.  Trust me they will put in a good word with the ladies for you.

[Faux Pas]

Okay, let's say hypothetically that there was some fool proof Utopian mega system in place which would really keep my information from being sold, or stolen, or what have you.  In that case, I wouldn't mind any of that information being known to a female counterpart with the same serious interest in finding her soul mate.

Mine is more a hesitancy of CYA.

You mean even the casual inquiry?

[Show Time]

Keep thinking that ST. A few pages of discussion from now, I'm going to be curious about what guys would pay for this service.   

For the record, I have NO IDEA what everyone else thinks.  I was just stating what I would be in favor of.

[ECOCKS]

Ed there seems to be many more sham agencies than honest ones. How is one to know the difference? You didn't mention anything in the way of security. If there was a secure agency and it could be established, I still wouldn't do it.  Personal and financial information isn't safe anywhere

Fair enough FP. However, at this point the information isn't necessarily on a database anywhere or at least no more accessible than it is at Equifax, Experian, your doctor's office, your employer, bank, the SSA, the County Courthouse where you were divorced, etc. The issue of posting on a profile or loading into an accessible database is not even mentioned in this question.

I would probably also refuse to post hard data of this nature into a profile, even if supposedly secured by any agency, public or private.

Again, a question down the road involves what the agency would have to do to earn your faith that their service was credible and only interested in the matchmaking business. For now, it's a question of what would you disclose to establish TO THE AGENCY that you are truly a bona fide serious bachelor in search of a meaningful relationship with a foreign woman?

BTW ST, I agree that a government agency which performed the basics of what you stated, criminal background check, unmarried status, etc. would have been a useful adjunct to the IMBRA legislation but that is out of our hands.

[Faux Pas]

Hi Ecocks,

I think you will find most men will not disclose anything.  Company I work for right now provides security over financial transactions and private personal records and business is booming.  Why - because people want security over their information.  

Khersengirls in a different thread tonight had a very good post in that men will not pay to run an agency most of us would like to see.  No different than what other agencies have told me.  

You hear about men trying to squeeze the apartment price $10 usd a day, complain about interperter fees, etc.  It takes a big effort to screen women and do matchmaking - a lot more than a $50 usd meeting fee.  Now try to screen men who fall in love with a photo and do anything including lie to impress.  I would charge 15,000 usd a man for this service.  How many would pay this?  First time a man fails he will be on the internet claiming the service is no good.  I paid 15,000 usd and did not get married.

A tip for the men.  When visiting an agency be nice to the girls who work in the agency including bringing gifts and taking them to dinner or lunch sometimes.  Guess what - there the ones who know the girls not the agency owner.  Trust me they will put in a good word with the ladies for you.

Kiev you make good points. For me personally it wouldn't have anything to do with additional costs but, the security of the information. Many men in this venture use many agencies from start to finish. Seems to me it would be another way for an agency to get hooks into a prospect. More specifically the dishonest ones.

[Daveman]

You mean even the casual inquiry?

Hmmm, I don't know really. It's something I'd have to think about as far as giving specifics to each individual lady upon casual inquiry.  I'd be comfortable with the general information, something like ST hypothetically proposed, like a statement indicating the basics, where the specifics could be discussed on an individual basis. 

I'll have to ponder this a bit more. I've actually never even remotely considered possibilities such as indicated in this discussion.

[Blues Fairy]

I can't believe there are men who willingly submit information like that to any organization, let alone a marriage agency. Are the comforts of having the Big Brother in your private life really so great vs the nuisance and the security danger?

[Sculpto]

I would not have an issue providing the information as long as there were guarantees of info security that could be verified.  IMBRA papers are already revealing enough personal info for someone unscrupulous to do damage.

[joe rockhead]

I can't believe there are men who willingly submit information like that to any organization, let alone a marriage agency. Are the comforts of having the Big Brother in your private life really so great vs the nuisance and the security danger?

I'm finding more and more criminal record checks and drug and alcohol testing in the work place, and I think it has enhanced safety on the job sites, so what would be wrong with including some background checks on both parties involved.  I do think a credit check would be excessive.

[groovlstk]

I'm finding more and more criminal record checks and drug and alcohol testing in the work place, and I think it has enhanced safety on the job sites, so what would be wrong with including some background checks on both parties involved.  I do think a credit check would be excessive.

Some marriage agencies are fly-by-night operations. Some engage in ingenious (and illegal) shenanigans to part you from your hard-earned $$ - and since they're not based in the US or whatever country you are from, you have little recourse in event you suddenly have a doppelganger in Russia or Ukraine living the highlife via your credit cards or bank account. I wouldn't trust most of the people in the business with a burnt-out match, let alone my SS# and other vitals.

I also see this as yet another opportunity for groups to put yet more hurdles in front of men who are marrying FSU women.

[Turboguy]

Ed, I would disclose the criminal background part since that is actually required by IMBRA for an agency to accept you and to comply with IMBRA.   I doubt that I would disclose anything further since all they need to know is that I am paying thier fees without problems and if I didn't think I could afford this venture I would be no more than an armchair romantic who never goes and wastes his money and her time anyway.

Anything else is none of their business.

[ECOCKS]

Not just respnding to TG but does no one see any benefit in being pre-qualified to the women?

As in if an agency represented to the women that all men had fair+ credit, no criminal background, really had a job, really lived at the address in the city they said they did, etc.

Some agencies charge the women, so what can an agency like this offer them to make them pay money to have access to a solid group of serious men?

And BTW, answer the question don't bag the agencies based upon your opinion of agencies historically, that has no bearing on this question.

[Show Time]

I'm going to get flamed for this...........Oh man, I can smell my hair burning already..........

Not just respnding to TG but does no one see any benefit in being pre-qualified to the women?

It depends on the quality of the women. 

One thing that I have done lately is visit alot of agency sites. 

Some are the smaller "mom and pop" types that have 30 - 50 women.  You can assume that these women came in to the office and interviewed and that they are sincere.
Some are the huge sites that have tens of 1,000's of profiles that rely on smaller local agencies feeding them.  You have know idea where these women came from.

Well one can pretty much guess which site has the better chance of having ladies I'm interested in.  These are also the same sites that hundreds of thousands of "keyboard Romeos" writing every month. 

So, in regards to your question.  If an agency has contact with a vast number of ladies and those ladies have been screened to some degree (basically verify that they are real and want to find a man abroad), then yes, I personally place a high value on being screened myself.  If for nothing more than to go from 1 in a 100,000 to 1 in 1,000.

My $0.02

[Faux Pas]

I'm going to get flamed for this...........Oh man, I can smell my hair burning already..........

It depends on the quality of the women. 

One thing that I have done lately is visit alot of agency sites. 

Some are the smaller "mom and pop" types that have 30 - 50 women.  You can assume that these women came in to the office and interviewed and that they are sincere.
Some are the huge sites that have tens of 1,000's of profiles that rely on smaller local agencies feeding them.  You have know idea where these women came from.

Well one can pretty much guess which site has the better chance of having ladies I'm interested in.  These are also the same sites that hundreds of thousands of "keyboard Romeos" writing every month. 

So, in regards to your question.  If an agency has contact with a vast number of ladies and those ladies have been screened to some degree (basically verify that they are real and want to find a man abroad), then yes, I personally place a high value on being screened myself.  If for nothing more than to go from 1 in a 100,000 to 1 in 1,000.

My $0.02

ShowTime

No flaming required.  It doesn't matter if you are one out of five. You still have to woo, court, wine dine and sixty-nine the lady. My experience is, it doesn't matter what your credit report reflects, she likely doesn't care or even understand it anyway. Unless your criminal check reveals you a murderer and wife beater it likely won't matter to her either. I'm with Ed, there isn't likely much of this that will matter at all to a lady unless it is the extremes such as a murder conviction ect. Of course once you announce you are visiting she will want to know everything about you possible including your boxer/briefs preference. Usually, at that point the only thing that will matter to her is that you are a good man, hopefully good looking and like your pictures and capable of taking care of her.

An added sidebar here, BTK killer could have passed such a criminal and credit check.