Pt 2- What would you pay?

[ECOCKS]

Stage Two.

Assume for a moment that some agency was out there which managed to satisfy your questions/concerns on honesty which delivered a pre-qualified database of women who really had been interviewed and verified then assigned you a coach/consultant who worked for you to determine your match compatability, taking it to the next level and so on?

What is your maximum flat fee payment you could see doing? You'd still have dates, travel costs, visa fees, pre-nup expenses, etc.

[Sculpto]

is it a one time payment until you meet your match?

[Kuna]

I wouldn't pay anything for this service - because I wouldn't want the service.

The only thing of value is the identity verification but you can do that yourself by meeting face to face.

All of the other services would be good for making men lazy - or even more lazy than many of us already are.   

Some men would also expect you to pick one out...  wrap her up in brown paper and string, AND lick the postage stamps.

I think agencies get in the way too much to start with - I prefer to make my own relationship decisions.  Anything else is just too manufactured for me!

[Wraith]

I agree with Kuna on this. I prefer to make my own relationship decisions.

[TwoBitBandit]

I'll "third" what Kuna said.  Agencies might be a good way to start out but they just get in the way of experienced guys.  There are better ponds to fish in.

[groovlstk]

Yeah, where is the $ZERO$ option for those of us who are socially competent enough that we don't (or didn't) need to have a stranger tell us which girls are naughty and which are nice?  :noidea:

[KenC]

Any guy that expects more than an introduction to women that may want to relocate in the US is a fool.  I wouldn't trust anyones judgement on any specific woman other than my own.
KenC

[Gator]

I would say such an agency is like hunting where the animals have been released or retained within a fenced perimeter.  However, that is wrong.  It is not as reliable as a "blind date" arranged by friends, and we all have experienced the low success rate of blind dates.

Thus, you need to add:
"Pay Nothing"

Agree with Kuna, KenC et al - I want to make my own decisions about who will be my wife.  I had the luxury of time to do exactly that.  If I did not have much time, I doubt that I would pursue RW.

Besides, sorting through the many women was interesting, exciting and fun, and tended to make one's eventual choices that much better and more fulfilling (and hopefully more compatible).

[kievstar]

I agree with Kuna. 

[myrddin]

Any guy that expects more than an introduction to women that may want to relocate in the US is a fool.  I wouldn't trust anyones judgement on any specific woman other than my own.
KenC

Agreed.   I'd never pay more than a few bucks for an intro.

I was once a member of a certain service in the US that was considerably more expensive than websites.  They claimed to do a lot of that preliminary work and significantly improve the odds of a good match.  But it seemed to me that my matches there were not noticeably different than any other method.

Any method leads to the same place: if there's initial mutual interest, you meet in person.  Then you're on your own.

[ECOCKS]

Interesting response from the experienced pool. It's a shame more of the newer members who have been more recently involved with the process aren't chiming in.

I've been looking at a couple of the higher end services/sites/agencies which charge premium fees and apparently they manage to stay in business.

This seems to contrast with the "men won't pay enough to provide high-end services" response from some people and the Khersongirls owner.

It's also interesting that these sites are apparently not very well known either in places like this or on the search engines. Niche marketing seems to work at least somewhat for them.

I would think the no-scammers elimination makes these types of  service worth an increment or even two more considering how many dupes we have seen in the last month or so and how many of the experienced guys admit to being reeled in a time or two before getting an understanding of how this game works.

All good info and comments though, thanks.

[Kevin]

I don't think anyone should pay for more then a meeting and most agencies that charge more then $75 for a meeting are often a scam. The reason I say this is once you put a price on a lady you are changing the role of the agency from a introduction service to a company that is offering a product for sale.  A agency job should only be to introduce you to a lady and then leave it too the couple to develop the relationship.

Also what guarantees could a client expect from an agency and what guarantee's could an agency give.  If a lady meet the men and refused or leaves him within a few days. Does the agency refund the money? If the men is a jerk or worst how does the agency compensate the lady?

In the Real world the only people who know if the relationship is right is the couples.  Don't expect us agencies to be able to do more then to introduce and remove the bad ladies/men as we find them.

The only service any agencies could offer over meetings/gifts is a matchmaking/interviewing service that allows the staff to meet with the ladies and go over the information in your profile. This is a time saving service that eliminates ladies who just aren't interested in where you live, how you look, or your age.  This does save you time and effort so you can focus on the ladies who like your "profile".  This type of service should cost between $200-$1000 depending on the agencies as it does take time to interview multiple ladies.

[groovlstk]

I've been looking at a couple of the higher end services/sote/agencies which charge premium fees and apparently they manage to stay in business.

This seems to contrast with the "men won't pay enough to provide high-end services" response from some people and the Khersongirls owner.

I don't think these statements are at odds, each service serves distinctly different clients.

I've seen guys in the past who used these premium matchmakers claim that they were too busy and had too little time to search for a wife. I suspect it's a rationalization and their true motive is that they have no idea how to behave around women, but I certainly could be wrong.

Regardless, I don't understand why any man would outsource one of the most important, if not the most important, decision of his life. Then again, when things inevitably go south, at least the couple can blame everything on the matchmaker rather than on themselves. 

[ECOCKS]

Hi Kevin:

Great to have your viewpoint here.

So do you think the high-end agencies are not successful? Are they a sham?

Ed

[ECOCKS]

Agreed.   I'd never pay more than a few bucks for an intro.

I was once a member of a certain service in the US that was considerably more expensive than websites.  They claimed to do a lot of that preliminary work and significantly improve the odds of a good match.  But it seemed to me that my matches there were not noticeably different than any other method.

Any method leads to the same place: if there's initial mutual interest, you meet in person.  Then you're on your own.

I take it you don't want to name the service?

What sort of claims did they make and how did you first justify paying a the added expense?

[Kevin]

If you have question for me offline please email me at kevin@khersongirls.com as I am blocked from getting emails/PM on this forum at this time and would recommend using my email instead..

A poster ask me if we do background check on the ladies to join. The answer is NO as their is no simple way to do such a background check in the Ukraine. All we can do is get a copy of the ladies passport to verify her name and age and have her complete an application.

For the men we have to use the honor system as we do not get a copy of the men passports and have no control over what they put in their profiles. 

This being said we have more verification on the ladies then we do on the men.

As far as a site claiming to do preliminary work. I would say this is possible for a very small agency. But if a large network or a large agency makes such a claim I would be very careful. A small agencies with 10-50 ladies could make such a claim.  My agencies has 1000's of ladies from different cities and I make no such claim. My staff does take the time to get to know the ladies, but it is the image that the ladies want us to have of them.

Kevin

thanks
kevin

[Show Time]

Interesting response from the experienced pool. It's a shame more of the newer members who have been more recently involved with the process aren't chiming in.

Sorry, but work today has been (and still is) whoopin' my butt.  I have some thoughts on this and when I have time to collect them, organize them, and post, I will. Hopefully, some time tonight.

[Sculpto]

I am not in disagreement with what has been posted, but, I don't totally agree either.

There are different factors that make different scenarios for different men.. and the ladies for that matter.

About 3 years ago I thought about trying the Cz republic.  I found some kind of an agency that did not have photos of the ladies on their site and described themselves as matchmakers.. spoke with the guy for an hour on the phone in a screening interview and then he pitched me on a 1500 dollar deposit, just to view his ladies.  hahaha yeah right.. I told him to get me 3 references from men in the US that had used his service and got married.. never heard from him again.  Obvious scam.

But, on the other side of the coin.. not relative to the example above.. what about someone who is very high end.. makes a lot of money and has legitimate concerns about his own use of time and the gold digger problem?  What if you had very specific demands about educational level and professional experience and wanted a verified familial background check in advance?  What if you are a really rich guy who has always been a loser with women?  Lots of guys like that in the Silicon Valley.. I know some geeks that write code that all of us use every day, freaking brilliant guys, who are also slobs and get red in the face when they even get near a woman.. the kind that couldn't pick up a whore in a whorehouse let alone be at ease talking to a beautiful woman.. even with coaching they would still be uneasy.

Its been noted that the high end agencies or matchmakers appear to be doing some business, enough to keep their sites up and bills paid.. it would appear anyway.  The links i posted in the other thread all indicate multiple years in business.  So, there is a market.. might be a niche.. but someone is making it work.  Probably not for many of the guys here.. but most of us might not be their target market anyway.

Please tell me I didn't post anything to piss anyone off. 

[BC]

For the men we have to use the honor system as we do not get a copy of the men passports and have no control over what they put in their profiles. 

The honor system?

Wow, what happened to IMBRA? Or is a USC hiding behind foreign ownership to get around it?

You have a credit card number, an address that matches, an application form and it don't take much to type a name in here:

http://www.familywatchdog.us/

More detailed background checks aren't that expensive, especially in quantity and a simple online application can do the check in the background.

Is 20 or so bucks is going to really scare a serious guy away?

[BC]

As far as a site claiming to do preliminary work. I would say this is possible for a very small agency. But if a large network or a large agency makes such a claim I would be very careful. A small agencies with 10-50 ladies could make such a claim.  My agencies has 1000's of ladies from different cities and I make no such claim. My staff does take the time to get to know the ladies, but it is the image that the ladies want us to have of them.

Here the most revealing part of the scheme..  How to manage thousands of ladies, keep a database up to date, even know if they are even still interested..  Answer:  You can't and can only offer potluck to anyone considering getting on a plane.

[BC]

This being said we have more verification on the ladies then we do on the men.

IMBs are required to check the National Sex Offender public registry and state public registry for each specific U.S. client, and to gather mandatory background information and documents on that particular U.S. client's past criminal history, including prostitution offenses, past domestic violence history, past marital and divorce history, past visa petition history, ages of any children under age 18, and all states and countries where the U.S. client lived since age 18. IMBs must then provide that information to the foreign client lady in her native language and secure a signed, written consent from her before releasing her personal contact information to that specific U.S. client. The law imposes stiff civil and criminal penalties of up to $25,000 and up to 5 years in federal prison for each broker violation.

http://www.aliceagency.com/IMBRA.html

Now if I were an ambulance chaser type lawyer, I bet an out of court settlement would be quite possible with any of your 'girls' getting a chunk of the change.

Maybe one of the questions you ask guys is 'Are you a lawyer?'.. and drop them on the spot.

<-- admittedly stirring the pot... 

[Kevin]

BC..
IMBRA requires the men to provide a questionare completed to the ladies. This is done though our website and the information is provided by the men to be given to the ladies. Unemotionally the government doesn't get involved and we have no way of verifying the information since we do not have the legal right to do the background nor do we have the required information that IMBRA does not ask for that would be needed. Such as the SSN and a valid ID.  We can do the required sex offender check based on the name given to us by the Men.  Their is no way to verify the men information is real. The only verification we get is when the men shows up in the office and provides us with his passport. A requirement prior to meeting any of our ladies.  Quite a few men have been caught with false names, dates of birth and age in my office.

How do we manage 1000s of ladies. Each office handles their ladies. typically 40-400 ladies.  The staff takes the time to meet their ladies.  In kherson I have a staff of 8 and on average 30-40 ladies a month will be corresponding with the men. This means we have time to get to know the ladies in communication with the clients as they visit the office.  ALSO, The ladies must come to the office to send/received letters This is another way we get to know our ladies. They don't sit at home and write letters from their home computers.

The ladies are required to provide official id to join the agency.  In fact it is the ladies who are verified by my staff and the men who are on the honor system.

As far as CC's numbers, If you took the time to look at my site before commenting. You will see we don't take CC's, we use the site paypal.com they keeps their clients CC's private. All we have is a email address of the sender, (most often a yahoo email) and in some cases an address. Nothing that could be use to verify a men intention and criminal background.



The only potluck involved is when they meet "BC". since only "BC" knows who he is. The office knows who the ladies are.

I use the site http://www.nsopw.gov/ for the sex offender background check...  It give us only a yes/no to a name.

I've been doing this close to 10 years now. My office still gets 2-3 engagements every month and you don't hear my clients complaining about my agency.  I don't know how much more anyone could ask for.

[Kevin]

http://www.aliceagency.com/IMBRA.html

Now if I were an ambulance chaser type lawyer, I bet an out of court settlement would be quite possible with any of your 'girls' getting a chunk of the change.

Maybe one of the questions you ask guys is 'Are you a lawyer?'.. and drop them on the spot.

<-- admittedly stirring the pot... 

More info can be found at www.khersongirls.com/newlaw.htm as this is the form we use.   Again the data is only as good as the person who provides it.

[BC]

More info can be found at www.khersongirls.com/newlaw.htm as this is the form we use.   Again the data is only as good as the person who provides it.

Hey, that's great..you do 'do' a bit of IMBRA!

Still leaves a few holes, but have to give it to ya, you're trying..

Now about the 20 bucks for a somewhat 'real' background check.. to confirm it all (I won't get into the paypal vs CC stuff.. I know good reasons for that..).  Would that present too much of a hurdle for your bottom line?

Am also puzzled a bit about 8 staff handling communications with 40 or so men/women.. Has to be a huge demand for those few women to make any kind of business sense..  would think one staff could handle about 20 or 30 somewhat lengthy communications in a day..

Considering weekends are probably pretty busy, lets say 25 days a month, 8 staff, 25 communications.. that's something like 5000 'business units' per month..  @ a meager 5 bucks a pop that's 25K a month.. so I stick my big toe in my mouth, you are raking in a few bucks, somewhere around 40% or so from one office.. indeed a viable business model.

So a girl comes into your office 125 times a month to exchange mail?.. guess multiples are possible so lets settle for 5 exchanges per day per girl, if she comes in 25 days per month..  Guess they must be seriously looking for a mate..

But what does that say about someone from this site corresponding with one of your girls?  Guess he has a LOT of competition..

Sorry for digging in on ya Kevin, but do appreciate the fact that you stick around to interact..  If I got something wrong do pitch in where others have bailed.

Am I somewhat 'slanted' against agency owners (especially the 'social' ones), you bet.. but please don't take it personally.. It's a challenging interest I have acquired over a few years messing around with all this RW 'stuff'.

Cheers!



 

[Kevin]

BC
We are open 7 days a week 10-12hrs a day.  I have 4 ladies on duty at all time plus a manager. They not only handle the interviewing request, but the free daily chats, private chats, meetings and translate all of the incoming letters for all of the cities. Plus we keep 2 on duty to assist the clients who come into the office who need an interpretor. I am only familiar with a few Kiev offices that have large staff.. Since I'm not in this for the money, I don't mind having a large staff to ensure my clients have a successful visit.

As far as IMBRA, I believe I was one of the first to require it with my clients and I'm not sure what other agencies are in compliance with it, But I can assure you my office is.

The Majority of my ladies do not get letters. You can look on line and see how few clients send letters.  I believe the main reason we are so successful is my staff and our anti-scam policy. It is well known in Khoisan that my office does not allow the ladies to ask for money nor can they get large gifts from clients. This has keep the bad girls out and the serious ladies in.

Lets get back to the topic..   Don't treat any business different then you would a business in your home town.  Expect the same for your money. Don't ask a stranger to find you a wife.  Just ask the stranger to introduce the ladies he knows to you.  Look first for a friend that could someday be your wife.