Hitting the limit to how many women I can juggle at once!

[BrightDawn]

That's not love, it's fantasy.

I have to disagree. And "real life" love has no fantasy involved ...? A friend I brought to that world just told me he's marrying the woman he met there. It started virtual and became real. The relationships you make online can be quite "real". 100 years ago people wrote letters to each other and fell in love. Today you can interact in a virtual world. Just a better communication medium IMO.

[KenC]

I don't want to mislead her. I'm not sure it serves to even bring it up at this point as it is fairly early (exchanged 5 emails). I would have thought she would keep her options open given the small percentage of men that actually follow through.

You are not doing anything wrong here.  If a woman falls for you quicker than you are ready for, don't change the pace of developing the relationship any faster than YOU are comfortable.  In the "dating game" I condone honesty but not necessarily full disclosure until later in a more developed relationship.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment that Internet "love" is real.  It can be, but until the feelings are confirmed with some face to face time, it is a crap shoot.
KenC

[Gator]

BrightDawn,

I agree with Groovlstk.  Maybe the word "fantasy" is inappropriate to describe a two-year interchange of thoughts about values, hobbies, family, goals, etc.  Nevertheless, do you actually have the feelings of love?

I have communicated and talked with a number of RW.  I never felt love yet I had great expectations.  Also, I never would endure this for two years.  What was reaction upon meeting them?   More often than not I was disappointed within about 15 minutes of meeting them.

I was not disappointed when meeting the woman whom I married 6 years later.  And I am sure Blues fairy was not disappointed when she met her future husband with whom she had been corresponding for over a year (or longer?).  What was she feeling?  A woman never tells!

[Gator]

I don't want to mislead her. I'm not sure it serves to even bring it up at this point as it is fairly early (exchanged 5 emails). I would have thought she would keep her options open given the small percentage of men that actually follow through.

5 emails and she is removing her profile! She does not sound like the RW I knew.  However, I was restrained in what I felt and certainly what I said.  A few RW asked me to meet them upon our first phone call, but none ever removed her profile and promised herself to me.

You may be misleading her dependent upon what you and she say (or more precisely, what you don't say).  If a woman is advancing the relationship too fast, I would feel it is my responsibility to say "Wait a minute!" It can go too far and you may decide to never meet this woman.  Then you have to deal with hurt feelings.  Why tease a woman, wheter directly or indirectly?

[Sculpto]

5 emails and then removes her profile smells fishy..

[groovlstk]

I have to disagree. And "real life" love has no fantasy involved ...? A friend I brought to that world just told me he's marrying the woman he met there. It started virtual and became real. The relationships you make online can be quite "real". 100 years ago people wrote letters to each other and fell in love. Today you can interact in a virtual world. Just a better communication medium IMO.

BD, how many of these women you fell in love w/through Second Life did you meet in person? The fantasy disappears when people meet for real.

I'm no sociologist but based on my own experiences, you never get a full picture of someone online - the way they walk, the way they look at you, how they "feel" in their own skin - and the natural tendency is to fill in these blank spots with imagination.

FWIW, falling in love online is easy - real life love is a lot of work and (thank god) the rewards are infinitely better.

One thing you should think about is that it really, really sucks when you travel 5000 miles and realize in the first 15 minutes that this woman you've been communicating with and professing strong feelings for is not the same person you were emailing or chatting with. The result is you're stuck in a foreign city where most people can't even communicate with you and all the rules are different. That long flight home is pure torture. I blew more than one vacation this way 

[BrightDawn]

BD, how many of these women you fell in love w/through Second Life did you meet in person? The fantasy disappears when people meet for real.

I'm no sociologist but based on my own experiences, you never get a full picture of someone online - the way they walk, the way they look at you, how they "feel" in their own skin - and the natural tendency is to fill in these blank spots with imagination.

FWIW, falling in love online is easy - real life love is a lot of work and (thank god) the rewards are infinitely better.

One thing you should think about is that it really, really sucks when you travel 5000 miles and realize in the first 15 minutes that this woman you've been communicating with and professing strong feelings for is not the same person you were emailing or chatting with. The result is you're stuck in a foreign city where most people can't even communicate with you and all the rules are different. That long flight home is pure torture. I blew more than one vacation this way 

Yes, I agree. Online you fill in the blanks with your own ideas (idealized of course). My relationships in SecondLife were with women from the USA, not the FSU, there were no language/cultural issues involved. No, I did not meet any of them. I'm just saying that it is possible to become emotionally involved through that medium. Real relationships take work. I was married for 20 years... I know

That's one of my concerns.. Meeting in person and finding that she really isn't at all what I am looking for. I guess the best way to mitigate that is to get to know them as best you can online. I'm finding it frustrating to have to wait a couple days between emails. I'm used to interactive IM. One has dialup. The other uses a cafe. Maddening.

Tomorrow I will be calling one of them. Hopefully language will not be too big a barrier.

I don't think I have been misleading. I am serious in my pursuit and I am very interested in you. That is really all I have said. I have no interest in teasing or hurting anyone - least of all myself.

I really am glad to find this forum. It has been so helpful. I really hope it isn't a "crapshoot". I've considered just going to the Ukraine for 3 months and living there. My work is "portable" all I need is a laptop and the internet. Not speaking Russian, makes me leery of doing that. Any recommendations for learning Russian? (ie. courses)

As far as her removing her profile... I wondered about it. She could be talking to a dozen guys. I contacted her when her profile was "NEW". I imagine she could have gotten 100's of EOI's in a short period of time and doesn't want to deal with more. Just have to continue the correspondence and see where it leads.

[Blues Fairy]

And I am sure Blues fairy was not disappointed when she met her future husband with whom she had been corresponding for over a year (or longer?). What was she feeling?  A woman never tells!

Three years, actually.  I had a fairly good idea of whom I was going to meet, though we had never talked on the phone or even chatted, just wrote letters.  But it took much more than 5 emails, of course.  

[Sculpto]

I've considered just going to the Ukraine for 3 months and living there. My work is "portable" all I need is a laptop and the internet. Not speaking Russian, makes me leery of doing that. Any recommendations for learning Russian? (ie. courses)

If you are in a position to do that.. DO IT!  It will be an unforgettable experience and eliminates all the issues you are dealing with now, plus, takes off the time pressure most of us feel when we go for a week or two.  There are language courses in the major cities, either through the Uni's or independent language schools. 

[remiel6]

Three years, actually.  I had a fairly good idea of whom I was going to meet, though we had never talked on the phone or even chatted, just wrote letters.  But it took much more than 5 emails, of course. 

  three cheers for letter writing. I did not take 3 years, but I did write my fiance everyday for 6 months before we met. Yes I was nervous, but we exchanged some very intimate letters, always have, so I felt like I "Knew" her. The first time I saw her in the same room as me, I swear the world stopped turning. It was one of the most incredible experiences I have ever had. So I don't think writing a lot is bad. What works for one person does not work for all. Yet I will say, she did not tell me she loved me in five letters. In fact she did not tell me she loved me in a letter at all, she did that the first time in person. All she would tell me is how much she cared.

[myrddin]

I really hope it isn't a "crapshoot".

It's not a crapshoot, but there is always luck involved (as in any search).  The key is to learn everything you can about the non-luck stuff.  Heck, even in craps you can learn better strategies to improve your odds. 

I've considered just going to the Ukraine for 3 months and living there. My work is "portable" all I need is a laptop and the internet. Not speaking Russian, makes me leery of doing that. Any recommendations for learning Russian? (ie. courses)

There are a lot of people jealous of that who are reading and not responding, and at least one who is posting! GO! By all means enroll in a language course, but just make some friends and likely you'll find yourself introduced to every available single lady they know. 


There are many language programs to start at home, too, even if you don't go for 3 months.

Since I have all the language-learning ability of a 178 year old man in a coma, I can't say any have worked "best" for me, but I have tried several.

  Pimsleur (audio courses) -- seems very popular around here.  I'd say "unaccountably", but that could just be because it seems especially unsuited to me.  Runs into the $100s.

  Unforgettable languages.com (audio course) -- basic pnemonic strategy, works pretty well.  The free sample words give a good taste of the style.  Only 1 level, though, with a vocabulary of maybe 750 words, I believe.  Under $100.  I'd say a good place to start

  Rosetta Stone (multimedia computer courses) -- get the impression it's not highly respected around here and I'm told there are some errors. The free demo will tell you if the style works for you.  Russian 1 runs about $250. 
      Aside: even were I tempted by RS, I can't stomach paying the premium for their expensive advertising campaign.  Especially since the new radio ads begin, "Do you know why most people have trouble learning a language? It's because they're trying to learn instead of just...absorbing it."  Egad, so THAT'S my problem - "trying"!?   

  Penton Overseas. Learn in Your Car (audio courses) - long lists without the explanations of Pimsleur, but more words per hour.  Supposed to build up complexity the same way a child learns.  Of course, if your brain still worked that way, you'd BE a child and not need this!  Freakin' kids, little language sponges....   I spend too much time in the car so I wish this worked for me, but I'm a visual/kinesthetic learner and pure audio is less than ideal.  YMMV.  I think I got all 3 courses for $50.

  Ruslan (multimedia computer courses) - British program but also available in America, so the English isn't too far off.    At $70 in the US, even if it weren't as good as Rosetta Stone I'd still try it!  Taz swears he learned Russian mostly from Ruslan, but I say pfooey!  With a Russian accent!   Sigh, it's a good program.  My problem is in my own skull.  With a few months to work with, I'd make this the primary course.

  Russian in 10 Minutes a Day  (book) - for the self-study type, a good old-fashioned tree-killer that can't crash on a PC!  Includes some flash cards and stickers you can put around your house.  Tries to make learning light and fun. Humbug!  I mean, not bad.  I think that was about $15.

  I also picked up some children's books at a local Russian store. ($10-$20 each) With those, a dictionary, a lot of time, and the Fountain of Youth maybe I could make some progress!

  A number of teachers (including some on this forum, IIRC), offer live lessons through skype.  Those seem to average $300-500 for 10-12 lessons. 
  And of course, there are traditional classrooms, for those who really miss having homework graded....

  Man, I must be suppressing a desire to go Catholic because I'm gonna confess something here -  I've even tried subliminal CDs that are supposed to help reprogram your brain to accept language lessons (Subliminal Russian from Real Subliminal).  For me this is mostly out of desperation.  Can't say it's helped yet but it's only been dva nyedzila.  WTH?  $15 and it can't hurt.  I hope.


Anyway, at least learn the alphabet - not really that hard (unless you actually want to pronounce everything correctly...but the basics even I handled).

BUT no matter how much you can learn beforehand, nothing will compare to living there for 3 months! 

[BrightDawn]

myrddin, Thanks for the information!

I feel for ya. I don't speak any other languages and have a feeling it may be daunting for me as well. Motivation can work wonders I hear.

[Ade]

Well, I don't know about juggling... I have 2 ladies from EM that both appear to be very interested in me. One has closed her profile and told me she only wishes to talk to me. I'm not sure what is the best way to handle this. I don't like the idea of leading 2 woman to fall in love. I've been in online relationships in Second Life for 2 years. You don't have to meet someone to fall in love with them. Ah well, rambling ... I wish I was over there.

I'm sorry but real love is not something that grows out of electronic communication. Affection, lust, infatuation, yes, all these things but real love requires sharing more than just some words; words are just a small part of knowing someone after all. To think otherwise is naive, immature  and somewhat foolhardy. Of course, that's not to say that an online "relationship" couldn't develop into the real thing once you've met in the real world and shared real life experiences.

[BrightDawn]

Good to know. One sec while I chastise my naive, immature and foolhardy heart...

Virtual worlds are an interesting phenomena. Not quite the same as exchanging emails.

I'm opting for the non-virtual. It's way more interesting. 

Neither of the women I am corresponding with have said they love me. I don't expect that to happen until we can spend significant time together.

[Ade]

Good to know. One sec while I chastise my naive, immature and foolhardy heart...

Virtual worlds are an interesting phenomena. Not quite the same as exchanging emails.

Dude, I was playing in a multiuser worlds as far back as '83 and admined a couple of commercial ones too so I guess I'm a little more experienced with the concept than most ... Online "love" is not and cannot be considered real love. It is infatuation and affection, nothing more, although I will agree that the feelings can still be rather intense. The fact that you claim that you can be in love without ever meeting these people smacks of inexperience and immaturity or maybe you've never experienced the real thing and don't know the difference?

[Gator]

I really hope it isn't a "crapshoot".

That depends upon the man and how he reduces and manages the risk. 

-  Some men (such as myself) made it risky by dating way out of their league.  Some of these men may pass it off as a risk:reward equation.  However, I do not subscribe to such analysis when it is an emotional decision.  I managed my risks by spending enough time (too much in fact) to get to know my woman.

-  Some men increase the risk by building high expectations before meeting.  This could be your case dependent upon how you rise above your emotions to evaluate the woman in face-to-face reality.
You can argue with me that a relationship is all about feelings, yet that is exactly how I made some relationship mistakes in life.

-  Some men rationalize away red flags or perhaps do not even see the red flags. 

As far as her removing her profile... I wondered about it. She could be talking to a dozen guys. I contacted her when her profile was "NEW". I imagine she could have gotten 100's of EOI's in a short period of time and doesn't want to deal with more. Just have to continue the correspondence and see where it leads.

Logical possibility.  Good thinking - that type of analysis amid the emotional highs of having a beautiful woman promise herself to you is exactly what will serve you well.  Good luck.

[JR]

It's not a crapshoot, but there is always luck involved (as in any search).  The key is to learn everything you can about the non-luck stuff.  Heck, even in craps you can learn better strategies to improve your odds. 

There are a lot of people jealous of that who are reading and not responding, and at least one who is posting! GO! By all means enroll in a language course, but just make some friends and likely you'll find yourself introduced to every available single lady they know. 


There are many language programs to start at home, too, even if you don't go for 3 months.

Since I have all the language-learning ability of a 178 year old man in a coma, I can't say any have worked "best" for me, but I have tried several.

  Pimsleur (audio courses) -- seems very popular around here.  I'd say "unaccountably", but that could just be because it seems especially unsuited to me.  Runs into the $100s.

  Unforgettable languages.com (audio course) -- basic pnemonic strategy, works pretty well.  The free sample words give a good taste of the style.  Only 1 level, though, with a vocabulary of maybe 750 words, I believe.  Under $100.  I'd say a good place to start

  Rosetta Stone (multimedia computer courses) -- get the impression it's not highly respected around here and I'm told there are some errors. The free demo will tell you if the style works for you.  Russian 1 runs about $250. 
      Aside: even were I tempted by RS, I can't stomach paying the premium for their expensive advertising campaign.  Especially since the new radio ads begin, "Do you know why most people have trouble learning a language? It's because they're trying to learn instead of just...absorbing it."  Egad, so THAT'S my problem - "trying"!?   

  Penton Overseas. Learn in Your Car (audio courses) - long lists without the explanations of Pimsleur, but more words per hour.  Supposed to build up complexity the same way a child learns.  Of course, if your brain still worked that way, you'd BE a child and not need this!  Freakin' kids, little language sponges....   I spend too much time in the car so I wish this worked for me, but I'm a visual/kinesthetic learner and pure audio is less than ideal.  YMMV.  I think I got all 3 courses for $50.

  Ruslan (multimedia computer courses) - British program but also available in America, so the English isn't too far off.    At $70 in the US, even if it weren't as good as Rosetta Stone I'd still try it!  Taz swears he learned Russian mostly from Ruslan, but I say pfooey!  With a Russian accent!   Sigh, it's a good program.  My problem is in my own skull.  With a few months to work with, I'd make this the primary course.

  Russian in 10 Minutes a Day  (book) - for the self-study type, a good old-fashioned tree-killer that can't crash on a PC!  Includes some flash cards and stickers you can put around your house.  Tries to make learning light and fun. Humbug!  I mean, not bad.  I think that was about $15.

  I also picked up some children's books at a local Russian store. ($10-$20 each) With those, a dictionary, a lot of time, and the Fountain of Youth maybe I could make some progress!

  A number of teachers (including some on this forum, IIRC), offer live lessons through skype.  Those seem to average $300-500 for 10-12 lessons. 
  And of course, there are traditional classrooms, for those who really miss having homework graded....

  Man, I must be suppressing a desire to go Catholic because I'm gonna confess something here -  I've even tried subliminal CDs that are supposed to help reprogram your brain to accept language lessons (Subliminal Russian from Real Subliminal).  For me this is mostly out of desperation.  Can't say it's helped yet but it's only been dva nyedzila.  WTH?  $15 and it can't hurt.  I hope.


Anyway, at least learn the alphabet - not really that hard (unless you actually want to pronounce everything correctly...but the basics even I handled).

BUT no matter how much you can learn beforehand, nothing will compare to living there for 3 months! 

Check amazon.com for those titles. I just bought one of them for ninety cents

[myrddin]

Check amazon.com for those titles. I just bought one of them for ninety cents

Check ebay, too; those are all full retail prices.  Who pays that? 

[MatryoshkaMan]

Here's my peak of summer update! So after going through my giddy schoolboy period back when I first posted this rather ofter the top post I have settled down into a total WOVO mode for the past month or so. I correspond with only my #1 now. We chat on the phone every couple of days, send tons of sms back and forth and also on-line chat on ICQ when she is supposed to be working 

The die is cast and I have already purchased my flight to Moscow on Sept. 30. So we will be meeting in person for the first time after only about 3.5 months of corresponance. I will have then blown away my record of 8 minths pre-meeting correspondance from RW round #1 back in 1999/2000!

I am praying that sparks will fly! But I am old enough and seasoned enough to be realistic and there is some chance that we will not click in real life. If that happens I will either scramble to deploy a back-up plan (singles.ru here I come!) or just play tourist with a new friend!