How fat is too fat?

[Ooooops]

If you are not at least a little stubborn with RW, they'll easily roll over you.

You already wrote it a couple of times.   Looks like another pet peeve of yours...    (yes, I like to use smilies  )

[Admin]

Coincidentally, there is a CNN article today that offers a perspective on this topic - reference -- http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/06/25/h.keep.marriage.healthy/index.html - item # 1 on the list.

- Dan

[Taz]

OMG! They have a major weight issue fixation!!!!   

[jdk1963]

Would women swoon for Brad Pitt if he was 500 lbs?

Yes they would.  Fame is more potent than beer and takes far longer to wear off!

[JR]

Brad Pitt would never have achieved the fame he did if he weighed 500 pounds.

[jdk1963]

According to Ac/DC 19 stone is the ideal weight - that's 266lbs

That I believe settles the issue!   :hipdude:

[jdk1963]

Brad Pitt would never have achieved the fame he did if he weighed 500 pounds.

Only the Sith  deal in absolutes!

[Daveman]

The controversy, I guess, is in how we approach our loved ones when they suddently become not so lovable.  I simply cannot imagine treating my partner as a black box with an in and out; I will always try to figure what's going on inside that makes him behave so.  In 99% cases, the problem will be curable with a little help - from doctors or therapists or even simple internet research and heartfelt talk.  People do not behave in a self-destructive fashion for no reason; and if I truly love someone I will work hard to identify that reason; not reject him or scold him or do any other similarly useless things. 

I agree here. I can't really imagine just dropping someone because of weight gain, or because of an instance of self-destructive behavior.  There does come a point though where the situation is at critical mass (no pun intended).  Take alcohol abuse for instance.  How long do you stick it out with someone, try to help, etc, before you just have to separate? 

Also, a massive weight gain does indicate some condition which needs attention, but for most people a weight gain comes over time a few pounds a year -- for the sake of discussion, say 3 lbs a year for a few years, then suddenly it's 10lbs a year.. speaking solely of physical attraction, what to do in that situation?  How does one approach a decrease in physical attraction without appearing to be "scolding" or whatever. 

I can't really see "bailing" on someone solely because of weight gain but if she became enormous, I can't say I'd still be physically attracted. I honestly don't know though.  To me it's similar to how some ladies (not all) speak about bailing on a man if is wallet becomes thinner.  According to some, that is completely justified and normal. So why wouldn't it be just as normal to bail on a woman who became huge?   

[Daveman]

Yep, I earn my bread with sweat in the brow...       And it's just a little baby lens!   

I've been a Canon freak for years with a collection of "L" lenses that'll break a camel's back. I earn my bread with herniated discs!    but photography is such an interesting world of its own.  Amazing visits into the realm of moments...

[Sculpto]

I agree here. I can't really imagine just dropping someone because of weight gain, or because of an instance of self-destructive behavior.  There does come a point though where the situation is at critical mass (no pun intended).  Take alcohol abuse for instance.  How long do you stick it out with someone, try to help, etc, before you just have to separate? 

Also, a massive weight gain does indicate some condition which needs attention, but for most people a weight gain comes over time a few pounds a year -- for the sake of discussion, say 3 lbs a year for a few years, then suddenly it's 10lbs a year.. speaking solely of physical attraction, what to do in that situation?  How does one approach a decrease in physical attraction without appearing to be "scolding" or whatever. 

I can't really see "bailing" on someone solely because of weight gain but if she became enormous, I can't say I'd still be physically attracted. I honestly don't know though.  To me it's similar to how some ladies (not all) speak about bailing on a man if is wallet becomes thinner.  According to some, that is completely justified and normal. So why wouldn't it be just as normal to bail on a woman who became huge?   

If someone became an alcohol or hard drug abuser and refused to stop or get help it would definitely be reason for me to leave.. been down that road.  Will not repeat.

covered in blankets with the lights out.. would you even know the difference?  To try and help someone lose weight is hard.. there is almost nothing you can say that won't be offensive.. but.. how about taking charge of cooking and dispensary purchasing and insisting on going for walks or rides?

If you can't trust that "for better or worse" really means something to the person you are going to marry.. better to not get married.

[Blues Fairy]

say 3 lbs a year for a few years, then suddenly it's 10lbs a year.. speaking solely of physical attraction, what to do in that situation?  How does one approach a decrease in physical attraction without appearing to be "scolding" or whatever.

If a normally fit person begins to slack and overeat, I would look into what makes him/her behave so.  Often people overeat to compensate for a psychological void or insecurity, or to shield/barricade themselves from the world which they don't feel comfortable to face.  Helping them overcome these insecurities would be the priority in fixing their weight problem.  Scolding and rejection, on the other hand, will only exacerbate the problem.  

And of course I would urge them to check their hormones firsthand. 

See, this is what I'm trying to say in this topic with so little success: if we persist "speaking solely of physical attraction", i.e. looking at the situation solely from the point of OUR benefit, we run the risk of missing important symptoms and failing to help a person we love.  Black box approach. 

[Ooooops]

  Amazing visits into the realm of moments...

I like that.    Can I quote it in my future photo book?   

[Faux Pas]

If someone became an alcohol or hard drug abuser and refused to stop or get help it would definitely be reason for me to leave.. been down that road.  Will not repeat.

covered in blankets with the lights out.. would you even know the difference?  To try and help someone lose weight is hard.. there is almost nothing you can say that won't be offensive.. but.. how about taking charge of cooking and dispensary purchasing and insisting on going for walks or rides?

If you can't trust that "for better or worse" really means something to the person you are going to marry.. better to not get married.

Sculpt....you seem quite contradictory here. Unless you are saying "for better or worse" doesn't mean anything to you 

[Sculpto]

isnt that what the vetting period is for?  I wouldnt get married if I had any doubts.

[Taz]

See, this is what I'm trying to say in this topic with so little success: if we persist "speaking solely of physical attraction", i.e. looking at the situation solely from the point of OUR benefit, we run the risk of missing important symptoms and failing to help a person we love.  Black box approach. 

Nobody is saying don't love your partner or get rid of them immediately if they gain a few pounds. I've never suggested that nor have I ever done it. I was interested in at what point does your physical attraction diminish for your partner. Insert any other vice is you prefer. At what point does their drug use start to affect your relationship? What about smoking? I never suggested you should love them less. However when intimacy suffers, it tends to have a negative effect on the relationship as well.

I personally don't want a relationship based on sex or solely physical attraction nor do I want one devoid of it...

[jdk1963]

Sculpt....you seem quite contradictory here. Unless you are saying "for better or worse" doesn't mean anything to you 

Actually he is not.  Marriage vows are not a suicide pact.  If someone becomes an alcoholic or drug abuser and they adamantly refuse all help they have turned the marriage into a suicide pact.

[Faux Pas]

Actually he is not.  Marriage vows are not a suicide pact.  If someone becomes an alcoholic or drug abuser and they adamantly refuse all help they have turned the marriage into a suicide pact.

  You make it pretty clear when you stand on marriage vows. That would be your opinion. Wedding vows are vows made to each other. For some of us, marriage vows are taken seriously. Alcoholism, drug abuse, obesity, chronic b!tching, laziness even refusing help for a problem isn't breaking the most common marriage vows.

It's a promise and if you can't keep the promise, don't make it.

[Sculpto]

I dont disagree Faux.. and therein lies the challenge in any marriage.. foreign or domestic. 

Now, everyone here knows I have dabbled in this or that.. but I am not prone to addictions.  Did I choose a woman that has dabbled?  did I choose a woman that is not prone to addictions?  Did I choose a woman who has the internal strength to overcome that type of potentially major drawbacks?

yes,yes,yes

Have I verified my feelings and her comments on the subject?  I think so, I hope so, I am pretty sure, I damn well better be sure before I say I do.  32 days in the tropics should answer that.  Every temptation known to man is easily available at that beach.  Booze, buds, coke, amapola (opium), crank, mushrooms.. will she spend time getting wasted in the bars that stay open till 6 am?  or, will she go to sleep at a reasonable hour and spend her days with me beach combing and enjoying the healthy and relaxed atmosphere that is even more available?  I already know the answer.. just making a point.

Oh, and btw... she has a great metabolism and will be very unlikely to get fat.  just trying to stay on topic.    But I do think everyone should be asking those questions of themselves before making the plunge.

[jdk1963]

You make it pretty clear when you stand on marriage vows. That would be your opinion. Wedding vows are vows made to each other. For some of us, marriage vows are taken seriously. Alcoholism, drug abuse, obesity, chronic b!tching, laziness even refusing help for a problem isn't breaking the most common marriage vows.

It's a promise and if you can't keep the promise, don't make it.

When someone commits to drug abuse and alcohol abuse and refuses all help they've already broken that promise.  Notice the words "refuses all help".  Because they've committed to a path of self destruction does not give them the right to drag you with them.  If your spouse decided to jump off of a cliff and said "If you take our marriage vows seriously you'll jump with me" would you jump?  Would you expect someone to stay in a marriage if their spouse was physically abusive?  By your definition they've broken their promise if they leave.

[Daveman]

I like that.    Can I quote it in my future photo book?   

Kanyeshna, with one stipulation.. you must include a photo of me making a goofy face at the camera to emphasize the "moment" .. heh   :evil:

[Sculpto]

You make it pretty clear when you stand on marriage vows. That would be your opinion. Wedding vows are vows made to each other. For some of us, marriage vows are taken seriously. Alcoholism, drug abuse, obesity, chronic b!tching, laziness even refusing help for a problem isn't breaking the most common marriage vows.

It's a promise and if you can't keep the promise, don't make it.

I spoke with a good buddy today.  He is married about 12 years and has three kids with his wife.  I always thought they were rally solid.  Today he told me they are getting divorced.  She is out drinking and not coming home.  She is spending time in some bar and has gotten close with the female bartender and is staying over with the bartender.  He doesn't want a divorce but she is starting the fights and took his kids and sent them to Fresno without telling him.. 6 months ago they were fine..

What would you do Faux?  Just asking.. not trying to start a fight.  

BTW.. she gained a ton of weight in the last year.  They both lost parents in the last 12 months.

Not making this up, I swear.

[Faux Pas]

When someone commits to drug abuse and alcohol abuse and refuses all help they've already broken that promise.  Notice the words "refuses all help".  Because they've committed to a path of self destruction does not give them the right to drag you with them.  If your spouse decided to jump off of a cliff and said "If you take our marriage vows seriously you'll jump with me" would you jump?  Would you expect someone to stay in a marriage if their spouse was physically abusive?  By your definition they've broken their promise if they leave.

"Refuses all help" is way to broad and doesn't even pertain to this discussion but, for the sake of the discussion couldn't you possibly surmise someone who refuses needed help  could likely be very sick? You apparently want to argue a point you have no chance of winning. You've started with a conclusion and now try to piece meal opinion to support it. If you view a marriage as a suicide pact, you really shouldn't be getting married.

"To love and cherish through sickness and in health, for better or worse as long as you both shall live" is a promise you make. If you can't keep the promise, don't make it. I gather jdk, you make a lot of promises you don't keep?

To answer your question, no, I would not jump unless for some reason I felt the need too. The spouse requesting the other to jump would be the one breaking the vows. Just as the physical abuser in a relationship would be breaking the vows with the first strike.

You can try to rationalize and find excuses 1000's of ways for breaking your vows and generally only one way for honoring them. You've came up with a couple, keep at it I am sure you can find more.

[Daveman]

...
See, this is what I'm trying to say in this topic with so little success: if we persist "speaking solely of physical attraction", i.e. looking at the situation solely from the point of OUR benefit, we run the risk of missing important symptoms and failing to help a person we love.  Black box approach. 

Interesting... I have a phrase (almost a mantra) that I use in my search and will not settle for a lady who doesn't share the attitude..

"Put your partner first"... so simplistic, yet it really takes two special people to have this attitude together. This way both come first in a sharing and mutually fulfilling manner.  It could also be stated equivalently "Put the relationship first"...  if two people guard and protect, feed and nurture -- many problems are avoided, and those which are not tend to be very temporary.  

Emotions ebb and flow, but the trick is that the physical affects the emotional, and the effects of the psychological on the physical is quite large. A continual circle really.. one which must be continuously fed to flow and grow.

Unfortunately there are many who perceive and desire relationships from an egocentric perspective -- basically the "OUR benefit" you mention above.  Sometimes even the slightest ripple of the water can capsize that boat.

Abundantly giving while graciously receiving... win/win... both are completely filled and fulfilled at the feast of love.  

THAT is how I think these situations can be avoided or mitigated.. however, it really does take two very special people to practice this in reality.  But geez, finding them is a royal pain!



 

[Faux Pas]

I spoke with a good buddy today.  He is married about 12 years and has three kids with his wife.  I always thought they were rally solid.  Today he told me they are getting divorced.  She is out drinking and not coming home.  She is spending time in some bar and has gotten close with the female bartender and is staying over with the bartender.  He doesn't want a divorce but she is starting the fights and took his kids and sent them to Fresno without telling him.. 6 months ago they were fine..

What would you do Faux?  Just asking.. not trying to start a fight.  

BTW.. she gained a ton of weight in the last year.  They both lost parents in the last 12 months.

Not making this up, I swear.

It's a fair question. I have no idea what I would do if I was him Sculpt. I don't know any particulars and to just toss something out would be stupid. But I will say this, if she is abandoning him and/or the family, or she is having an affair, then she has broken her vows and the sanctity of the marriage. In my mind he would be well within his right to end the marriage without ever breaking his vows.

Marriage vows are a very, very brittle thing and can easily be broken by either party. Because one breaks them does not make the other guilty of doing so. And because one breaks them does not doom the marriage. IMHO

[Sculpto]

It's a fair question. I have no idea what I would do if I was him Sculpt. I don't know any particulars and to just toss something out would be stupid. But I will say this, if she is abandoning him and/or the family, or she is having an affair, then she has broken her vows and the sanctity of the marriage. In my mind he would be well within his right to end the marriage without ever breaking his vows.

Marriage vows are a very, very brittle thing and can easily be broken by either party. Because one breaks them does not make the other guilty of doing so. And because one breaks them does not doom the marriage. IMHO

Thats exactly how I viewed it also Faux.  I didn't ask him but it was pretty obvious she is having an intimate relationship with the bartender. 

So.. just for discussions sake.. here are a couple more details about this couple..

15 year age gap.. he is Italian, she is Black.. he is 5'6.. she is 5'10.. he is skinny.. she was "big boned" and then got fat.. he is blue collar.. she has a college education..

Odd couple?  I have no idea how they managed to stay together as long as they did..