How to start a conversation...

[janic]

Hi all!

I would like to ask about a problem I frequently have when starting to write to a lady: What to speak about... 

Most of the profiles I find on the Sites are mere skeletons, many times consisting of nothing else but name, age, weight, height. Even if there's a self-description or some words about who she's looking for, it's nothing ... how shall I phrase it ... tangible. So most of the time I just write smth like "I've seen your profile and would like to make your acquaintance.". Well, I get a fair amount of replies, but most of the time they are as empty as the profile and generally the conversation dies very quickly.

Realizing the problem I tried a different approach and wrote several times in the first or second message quite extensively about me, with the intention to give her some informations she could ask about or comment on. To my very surprise the reply-rate on these messages is WAY lower than with the before-mentioned approach.

Probably this sounds like the question of a 3rd-grader, but it still would be nice to get some comments/advise from you!

[Ade]

Hi all!

I would like to ask about a problem I frequently have when starting to write to a lady: What to speak about... 

Most of the profiles I find on the Sites are mere skeletons, many times consisting of nothing else but name, age, weight, height. Even if there's a self-description or some words about who she's looking for, it's nothing ... how shall I phrase it ... tangible. So most of the time I just write smth like "I've seen your profile and would like to make your acquaintance.". Well, I get a fair amount of replies, but most of the time they are as empty as the profile and generally the conversation dies very quickly.

Realizing the problem I tried a different approach and wrote several times in the first or second message quite extensively about me, with the intention to give her some informations she could ask about or comment on. To my very surprise the reply-rate on these messages is WAY lower than with the before-mentioned approach.

Probably this sounds like the question of a 3rd-grader, but it still would be nice to get some comments/advise from you!

IMHO, if you write to someone and include detailed information about yourself, your life, your likes etc, etc and you get terse or no replies then either you are writing to the wrong women or there's something in your writing style that puts these women off.

In all the internet relationships I've started I introduce myself similarly to the way you have I guess and then gone on to tell them more about myself - if you're talking to someone that's even remotely compatible the information flow should be reciprocal and easy. Interjecting questions asking her about her related preferences in amongst your information normally is enough to elicit some sort of response too.

Maybe your "extensive" mails are a little too much too soon? And perhaps you should build up to full disclosure over a series of mails? It's really difficult to judge without seeing some of your mails.

Also, why write to women that have little information in their profiles in the first place?

[GoodOlBoy]

I cannot comment on the "body" of information you might provide in a letter to an FSUW, BUT....I can suggest to you one very important thing.....Never, Never, Never lie to an FSUW or exaggerate anything about yourself.

Be totally truthful in your correspondences.

FSUW believe in "accuracy", if they smell anything wrong with your story, they will walk away.

JM2C's.


GOB

[Shadow]

Keep the introduction short, but offer her to ask questions, and be prepared to have questions for her to answer.

[NJ]

As a woman I would be interested in a letter covering your views on a family, values, description of your current lifestyle and of course what and why you are looking for.

[janic]

Thanks for the replies so far!

IMHO, if you write to someone and include detailed information about yourself, your life, your likes etc, etc and you get terse or no replies then either you are writing to the wrong women or there's something in your writing style that puts these women off.

I do agree with you, but honestly, I've no real clue what could do the harm. Possibly I'm just too honest...

It's really difficult to judge without seeing some of your mails.

Yes, I already thought so. Here is an example I sent shortly ago as a second message. (Btw: I have no ready-made text but prefer to write an individual text for each of the woman I contact.)  Sorry, it's in Russian (and even in a mediocre Russian  )

--- snip ---

Добрый вечер ___firstname____,
я рад познакомиться с тобой, но, пожалуйста, не переоценивает мои знания русского языка: я хорошо понимаю и также читаю твой язык, но если я пишу без словаря и коррекции правописания, я делаю еще очень много ошибок. Но я постоянно стараюсь улучшать моие знания.

Не знаю, как я должен начинаться... Вероятно, я должен писать тебе некоторое слово обо мне...

Мне __ лет. Я рожден в __country__, но с рождения я __citizenship__. С тех пор как я был мальчиком, я был всегда в путешествиях. Сначала из-за моих родителей, позже из-за моими профессиями. Я заблаговременно (можно писать таким словом?) начал работать. Сначала как фоторепортер, позже я менял профессию и работаю теперь как консультант по проблемам бизнеса. Я не был никогда в браке, но я имел отношение, в котором я стал отцом дочери. Мать и я разделили и с тех пор я, к сожалению, больше не имею никакого контакта с моей дочерью.

Уже 3 года живу и работаю в __country__. Живу в __city__. Но я здесь не хочу оставаться вечным. (__ppl-from-the-country-i-live-in__ не любят __my-nationality__...) Если ты спрашиваешь меня о том, где я хотел жить, то я ответил бы тебе, что я охотно буду жить недалеко от моря. Охотно в портовом городе. И охотно в стране, в которой тепло.

Если я самого должен описывать меня тогда я обозначил бы меня как нормальный, средний мужчина. (Я знаю, 'средней' ето никакая хорошая реклама... )

Я умен и думаю очень много. Поэтому, вероятно, я также являюсь спокойным человеком. Но я могу также быть очень стихиен и часто имею идей, который я хочу реализовать сразу. Я очень уверен и некоторые люди объясняют это как надменность, но я по отношению к другим людям преимущественно очень почтителен а также любезен. Иногда слишком любезно, так как некоторые люди неправильно понимают мою предупредительность как слабость. Очень трудно яростныйт меня, так как я иду у конфликтов охотно из дороги, но не невозможно, хотя я предпочитаю объективную беседу эмоционального обсуждения.

В моего свободного времени я охотно фотографирую. - я также пытаюсь зарабатывать деньги моими фотос, но фотографиа преимущественно хобби. Я охотно путешествую и знакомлюсь с новыми местами и странами, по я всегда заинтересован в новых опытах и охотно встречаю людей. Я имею старым Nissan Patrol, с которым я охотно еду в природу.

Охотно варю и думаю, как мужчина я хорошо варю. Nо я редко варю толко для меня все же не приятно работать долго в кухне и потом кушать в одиночестве.

Теперь я писал тебе из многого, как я вижу мой характер и немного о моей жизни. Теперь ты, возможно, имеешь идею от того, кем я являюсь и насколько большим мог бы быть твой интерес к отношению со мной. О тебе я, к сожалению, не знаю ничто. - или почти ничто. Твоя анкета не несходна, к сожалению, скелету...

Ты писал, что ты стюардесса. Могу ли я спрашивать, в какой авиакомпании? - я работал перед полжизни для ___company___... (Однако, в офисе и не в воздухе). Летаешь ли ты длинную дистанцию или короткую?

Ах имеется так многое, что я охотно хотел бы знать! Но прежде чем я пишу длинный список, я лучше оканчиваю мое сообщение и жду на то, что ты охотно хотел бы писать мне....  

Вид поздравления из __city__,
___.

пс: Само собой разумеется, ты меня можешь спрашивать все, что интересует тебя. Будъ любопытен!

--- snap ---
I'm open for any comments. - Yeah, beat me, pls beat me...
Oh, and one comment from my side: the remark about the skeleton-profile are not smth I would normally write. They are just a result of the frustration I build up on that problem. Finally I decided to ask here.

Also, why write to women that have little information in their profiles in the first place?

Because the majority has pretty empty profiles...?

BUT....I can suggest to you one very important thing.....Never, Never, Never lie to an FSUW or exaggerate anything about yourself.

Be totally truthful in your correspondences.

FSUW believe in "accuracy", if they smell anything wrong with your story, they will walk away.

I AM truthful. Maybe too truthful?

[Aloe]

you didnt ask a single question except her job, thats the clue. If uyou want to keep a  conversation going, ask questions, most ppl like talking about themselves

[Aloe]

i was always puzzled how to reply to someone who sends a long introduction without asking me a single question, what am i supposed to reply? "good for you"? :p i mean if you are talking about general stuff im this and that, good for you, now what? i dont know what you wanna know about me, you just go on talking about yourself.

[SMS60]

i was always puzzled how to reply to someone who sends a long introduction without asking me a single question, what am i supposed to reply? "good 

No, you use the word Bye.

[janic]

As a woman I would be interested in a letter covering your views on a family, values, description of your current lifestyle and of course what and why you are looking for.

NJ, thanks for your comment!
On my profiles I generally state something like "Не только хотел бы найти женщину. Я хотел бы что она мою женщину, мою подругу, мою равноправный партнера. С нею я хотел бы построить серьезные отношения, основанные на любви и взаимном уважении." which IMO explains pretty much what I'm looking for. As for the why I usually wait for a question from the lady, because I feel she should ask me that question. Especially because I mostly rather look at non-international dating sites. When I write with a lady whose profile is on a international site, one of my early questions is "Why are you looking for a man from abroad?"

What I don't get, is what you mean with "description of your current lifestyle". It would be nice if you would elaborate a bit on this.

[Aloe]

a guy whose dream is sit on the couch all evening wont get along with a girl who likes going out, theres the lifestyle question

[Blues Fairy]

How about writing a short engaging letter with some humor in it, instead of this longspun bore of an introduction?  
And I completely agree with Aloe regarding questions.  

Perhaps instead of choosing women who don't speak English and write skeleton-like profiles, you might want to look at those who are actually able to put two words together.  

[myrddin]

Most of the profiles I find on the Sites are mere skeletons

There must be *something* that caught your eye, that's a good start.  If there's nothing in the profile I'd avoid it.  But if you insist, pictures have backgrounds and backstories. 

the first or second message quite extensively about me, with the intention to give her some informations she could ask about or comment on. To my very surprise the reply-rate on these messages is WAY lower than with the before-mentioned approach.

the first message?     That's probably too much too soon.

Honestly a lower response rate is not much of a surprise.  As a wordy guy myself, I can (sometimes!  ) sense when people are losing focus. 

Also, you're writing (or she's reading, for those who try English) in a foreign language.  Even if your Russian is pretty good (and looks like it's A LOT better than mine), consider having a translator help with an intro letter or two.  Anastassia Ash from this board helped me with mine.

I strived to keep that first message to 2-4 relatively short sentences.  The second message was usually 2-3 medium length paragraphs (that core intro and something tailored to the individual interest). Those aren't rules, just guidelines I thought about when writing.

I used to do the "just give information for her to ask about" thing, too.  Found it better to ask direct questions - about her (not about her job, unless it's unusually interesting).  Talk about something she's passionate about.

If after a few messages there's nothing to hang your communication on there could be a reason.

Don't get hung up on response rate.  Lots of guys wrote to 100s of ladies.  I think I averaged about 20-30% response over different sites.  The only number that matters is 1, when it's the right 1.

I AM truthful. Maybe too truthful?

No such thing.  There's too open, too much, too soon, but not too truthful.

 1) Be honest.
 2) Pay attention.

Probably this sounds like the question of a 3rd-grader

Couldn't resist this little tidbit, from a 9-year-old kid who appears to have some decent advice ("Pretty girls are like cars that need a lot of oil.") 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12022008/news/nationalnews/i_wrote_the_book_of_love_141817.htm

[janic]

you didnt ask a single question except her job, thats the clue. If uyou want to keep a  conversation going, ask questions, most ppl like talking about themselves

i was always puzzled how to reply to someone who sends a long introduction without asking me a single question, what am i supposed to reply? "good for you"? :p i mean if you are talking about general stuff im this and that, good for you, now what? i dont know what you wanna know about me, you just go on talking about yourself.

It's mostly because I feel uncomfortable (interrogative in the most negative meaning of the word) putting many questions on a person I don't know at all. Yep, it's probably pretty stupid up to now my comparsion would have been walking up to somebody on the street and ask "What do you like doing in your spare time?"...
From my POV if I would get such a letter as I wrote above I would reply commenting on what the other person wrote. E.g "Oh, you live in .... I read that it is supposed to be to have many artists..." Or, to explain further, when I communicate with a lady I try to find out about her place as possible. I google it up, I look at pictures, etc. I comment on my newly gained knowledge and opinions and ask questions.
If there is more 'beef' in the profile, I - of course - do ask, but when there is nothing I can hook on [can you phrase it in such a way?] I've difficulties asking.

Probably I just behave[d] stupid....

[Gator]

Janic,

You are sending a "wall of words."  If you look like Brad Pitt, she may read it. If not, why should she go to the trouble of reading something in a foreign tongue when there is only a 5% chance that the man is serious.  For sure she thinks that this man does not know how to attract my attention.

Here for the first time I will reveal my SECRETS, and for free.  I will never write another RW, so here is how I got started.  And based on what I know, I was highly successful about getting started with a woman.  Only to piss them off later when they realized I would meet many RW.

My first letters were short. Also, make your sentences short and catchy.  Some use electronic translation so be careful with idioms and the like.

I used a few different openers such as this in winter,  "Hello from Florida, the Sunshine State.  Did you see the sun today in ______?"

If she had pretty eyes or hair, I would say "While looking at pages of beautiful Russian women at _____ agency, your photo jumped out and took my breath.  Your ___ eyes are remarkable and made me stop looking at other women."  [I think every RW is proud of her eyes and justifiably so.  And truthfully I did stop, albeit for 30 minutes to compose a letter.]

I then wrote a short paragraph about my life.  To make it personal, I attempted to cross reference my hobbies with hers, and if I could not then there was no need to write her.

RW are impressed by education and I wrote one sentence about it plus another about my accomplishments.

In another paragraph, I discussed my family situation and again referenced it to hers.  I like kids and mostly wrote to women with kids so that was easy.  This really connected because RW are great mothers.  My intent was to give the impression that I am a dependable family man but far from boring.

I then asked her another question, something special to her situation and not trite.

To close, I expressed my plan to travel to Russia and that I hope something in my short letter would make her want to know more about me.  I certainly did not say that I would like to meet her, just letting her infer that such was a possibility.

Although tall, I never listed it in my first letter,  nor did I give my age, letting a recent photo speak for itself.  Besides the only experience most RW had with men my age was going to their funeral.   So that came later if she were interested.  The same with attempts at humor (which can easily fail).

If I were writing an EOI at Elenas Models, almost everything was in my profile.  So the EOI was brief using only a couple of personal messages above.

[Ade]

It's mostly because I feel uncomfortable (interrogative in the most negative meaning of the word) putting many questions on a person I don't know at all. Yep, it's probably pretty stupid up to now my comparsion would have been walking up to somebody on the street and ask "What do you like doing in your spare time?"...
From my POV if I would get such a letter as I wrote above I would reply commenting on what the other person wrote. E.g "Oh, you live in .... I read that it is supposed to be to have many artists..." Or, to explain further, when I communicate with a lady I try to find out about her place as possible. I google it up, I look at pictures, etc. I comment on my newly gained knowledge and opinions and ask questions.
If there is more 'beef' in the profile, I - of course - do ask, but when there is nothing I can hook on [can you phrase it in such a way?] I've difficulties asking.

Probably I just behave[d] stupid....

You should really think of it more as a conversation than an interrogation or a two way monologue.... "I really love classic rock and have even seen Dire Straits and Floyd live, what music do you like?" I love hiking in the mountains on the weekends, how about you?" As BF said, try to insert some relevant humour in there too. It really helps to break the ice and women love a guy that can make them laugh.

[Gator]

Blues Fairy is giving her ideas.  This should be rich because I think you were one tough cookie to make it past the first letter.

How about writing a short engaging letter with some humor in it....

Splendid if an AM can pull it off.  However, it is dangerous for most AM.  American sense of humor differs from Russian SOH.  I say try this later, and then very carefully and in small doses.

I imagine a woman like you BF would hit "delete" after a man laid an egg, almost as quickly as if he had mentioned your breasts.  Are you now going to tell me that you are this caring person who has empathy for those with intellectual frailties?  Or would you give the man some credit for trying?  At least the latter has a chance of not being a bore.

[Aloe]

i dont think you should save it for later, humor is an important part of our lives  i dont think people with completely different senses of humor have a chance in the long run, so why postpone the inevitable? if you think its funny when a cat dies, and she goes in shock, better find out now than later

[GoodOlBoy]

Splendid if an AM can pull it off.  However, it is dangerous for most AM.  American sense of humor differs from Russian SOH.

Ditto!

Made a mistake with my wife in the early stages of our courting using some American humor (not vulgar or crass)......never again.

BTW....My wife understood and spoke English VERY well, she just did not understand American "slang" words.


GOB

[Blues Fairy]

I imagine a woman like you BF would hit "delete" after a man laid an egg, almost as quickly as if he had mentioned your breasts.  Are you now going to tell me that you are this caring person who has empathy for those with intellectual frailties?  Or would you give the man some credit for trying?  At least the latter has a chance of not being a bore.

Whenever did I say I had any empathy for men with intellectual frailties?  

P.S. Again 100% agree with Aloe about compatibility of the sense of humor. 

[Gator]

if you think its funny when a cat dies

Well, that would be funny.  

We have a Great Dane, we enjoy our songbirds living here on the edge of wildnerness, my wife is allergic to cat dander, ...

Don't get me started about cats.  It is probably some issue imprinted in my youth.  How best to express it - I would prefer a fat woman with a dog than a slender one with a cat.

[Gator]

Whenever did I say I had any empathy for men with intellectual frailties?  

I never thought you did.  I think you appreciate such men as much as I appreciate cats.  What would you do if a man failed with a joke?

[Gator]

Janic,

This is your thread.  Two intelligent RW members have suggested that you try some humor.

Please think of something funny to write and try it out here.  I expect you to fail as I did with my wife the first few times.

Maybe BF and Aloe would give you some credit for trying.  I would if a RW tried humor with me.  My wife has low tolerance for bad humor.  However, if you manage to succeed she will roll over.

[Ade]

Janic,

This is your thread.  Two intelligent RW members have suggested that you try some humor.

Please think of something funny to write and try it out here.  I expect you to fail as I did with my wife the first few times.

Maybe BF and Aloe would give you some credit for trying.  I would if a RW tried humor with me.  My wife has low tolerance for bad humor.  However, if you manage to succeed she will roll over.

Hm, well that explains why you've never laughed at my humour. I can make my fiancée crack up at will.

[myrddin]

i dont think you should save it for later, humor is an important part of our lives  i dont think people with completely different senses of humor have a chance in the long run, so why postpone the inevitable? if you think its funny when a cat dies, and she goes in shock, better find out now than later

Depends on how the cat dies....  


I do think sense of humor with cross-cultural and different language communication can be tough in the early stages.  But what are you really risking?  Surely an attempt is better than what people here are describing as a wall of boring words.