Starting out. The Realities of FSU Women VS American Women

[Boethius]

Another city heard from:

FSUW are more attractive than AW.

FSUW are personally cleaner than AW.

FSUW are in better shape than the AW.

FSUW keep a cleaner house than the AW.

FSUW are every bit as materialistic as AW, maybe more.

FSUW are more literate than AW.

FSUW are more absolute than AW.

I debated making a flat statement that FSUW are more beautiful than AW and just cannot quite do it. However, I am absolutely certain that if you grabbed the first 100 women you saw at the top of the Kreshatyk metro escalator at 9 AM and compared them to the first 100 women to come out of Grand Central Station or DC's primary downtown station at the same time of the workday, there would be between 2 and 3 times as many "beautiful" women in the Kreshatyk group by normal standards.

I will disagree about literacy.  I think that really depends on your non FSU social circle and educational level. 

[Aloe]

As of yet I would have to say 95% of the pictures of couples I have seen are evenly matched. The Women they married looked like Women they could have married in the USA. I have yet to see the trend that is handed to Men of finding much younger beautiful Women.

my impression is only about 50% are evenly matched

[Sculpto]

These are assumptions based solely upon a distaste for a combination of his posting style, mention of wealth, mention of the importance of sex, and his mentioning of prenups.

1) Wealth is not a bad thing.  Perhaps modesty is more attractive.

2) Most normal people enjoy sex (no way!). I've had sex with more RW than Ambach, and as far as I know, they at least pretended to be willing and (gasp) liked it! And I'd do it again! and again! and .. you get the idea. sheesh.  Call that like you see it.  

Everyone assumes he's flaunting his wealth and making promises of marriage for sex.  These are assumptions based on between the lines interpretations. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.  One thing to consider -- RW do tend to be attracted to modesty.  If he's actually "flaunting" then the ladies he's attracting are the type who would go for such bait... get the drift?  These are not some naive fairy tale princesses...
 
3) With the way the world and relationships are today, a man or woman, when there is something to lose, is foolish to NOT have a prenup.  Yeah, I know, I know, love, trust, all those wonderful romantic dreams.  In practical terms, a prenup is a tool. Nothing more.  I don't rally need one, but i certainly wouldn't hesitate to use one if I thought it necessary.  That being said, Ambach has been repeatedly accused of using a prenup as some kind of litmus test of true love.  Has he actually said this?  I truly don't know, but if he hasn't, then it's more ethereal wisdom coming from the great "between".

It's time to stop beating the Ambach horse... it's been dead so long the corpse is gone.

Dave.. I don't disagree with you at all.  The ONLY reason I keep calling out the flaws I see is because no matter how many people have called him out he persists with the same line of thinking/posting.  It indicates to me that the perceptions are true simply because he has never made any effort to refute what people have said, nor, elaborate on why he ended the relationships, so he claims anyway.  If Ambach chose to be more open and transparent there would be nothing to critique, so, its really up to him.

[Sculpto]

Another city heard from:

FSUW are more attractive than AW.

I wonder how much this has to do with being in better shape.  If AW were better fit that might even out a bit.. I see lots of beautiful women in fat bodies all the time.

FSUW are personally cleaner than AW.

Absolutely.  Not getting in the details of this.. leave it at FSUW seem to know a lot more about personal hygiene.

FSUW are in better shape than the AW.

Almost all women in the world are in better shape than AW, same might be said for men.

FSUW keep a cleaner house than the AW.

Generally speaking is that because most FSU living spaces are smaller than in the USA, or, does it carry through when FSUW live in bigger homes?

FSUW are every bit as materialistic as AW, maybe more.

Doesn't that depend more on the individual? 

FSUW are more literate than AW.

On a basic level probably true, and for men also I suspect.  When hiring carpenters I ask, "what is bigger, 3/4" or 5/8".. you would be really surprised how many get this wrong.

FSUW are more absolute than AW.

I am sure no one noticed that.. 

I debated making a flat statement that FSUW are more beautiful than AW and just cannot quite do it. However, I am absolutely certain that if you grabbed the first 100 women you saw at the top of the Kreshatyk metro escalator at 9 AM and compared them to the first 100 women to come out of Grand Central Station or DC's primary downtown station at the same time of the workday, there would be between 2 and 3 times as many "beautiful" women in the Kreshatyk group by normal standards.

Here is an example that might illuminate.. last fall right after I got back from Moscow I did an installation at the Moscone Convention Center which I do each year.  About 300,000 people go through the exhibition hall in the week of the show.  I saw more beautiful women in one day in Moscow.. for that matter in a few hours, than I did in one week in a public venue that attracts high end people.  And here is a very interesting observation.. 3 times out of four that I saw a very beautiful woman, they turned out to be Russian or Ukrainian with a few Polish and other eastern Europeans as well.  AWs in that venue tended to be overweight, poorly dressed and with messy hair.  The exceptions were Latin women and a recognizable percentage of African American women.

[kievstar]

I do know several RW who would never marry a man not in good shape and health.  This is not about age either its about being healthy including a good body.  My wife is one of these women. 

There is no reason for any AW or AM to be heavy unless they have a disability or dirt poor.  It is all mental and diet.  Do not want to hear the BS about having children.  If someone wants to be in shape, they will be in shape.  If someone wants to be nervous, stressed, and not eat 5 small meals a day - they chose to be fat.

Ever notice the Europe men and AM stuff there faces at barbecues in Ukraine while most RM eat a little.  Of course more and more RM and RW are getting obese.  Kiev women just look like Chicago women now.  Kharkov is still loaded.  Never seen a city in my life that keeps producing gorgeous women. 

Has anybody looked for a wife in Donetsk?  That place must be loaded - I do know the mafia is the strongest there in all FSU so they may have all the gorgeous women.

[Sculpto]

I do know several RW who would never marry a man not in good shape and health.  This is not about age either its about being healthy including a good body.  My wife is one of these women. 

There is no reason for any AW or AM to be heavy unless they have a disability or dirt poor.  It is all mental and diet.  Do not want to hear the BS about having children.  If someone wants to be in shape, they will be in shape.  If someone wants to be nervous, stressed, and not eat 5 small meals a day - they chose to be fat.

Ever notice the Europe men and AM stuff there faces at barbecues in Ukraine while most RM eat a little.  Of course more and more RM and RW are getting obese.  Kiev women just look like Chicago women now.  Kharkov is still loaded.  Never seen a city in my life that keeps producing gorgeous women. 

Has anybody looked for a wife in Donetsk?  That place must be loaded - I do know the mafia is the strongest there in all FSU so they may have all the gorgeous women.

Donetsk women are in no hurry to leave.  The one marriage agency there is corrupt.  Low level of scamming from Donetsk because the mafia there is into porn and prostitution.  I have posted the youtube video before and my friends there confirmed it.  I even saw recruiters passing out flyers to hot girls while I was there.  Its only good for a guy who is independent and has a lot of game. 

[ECOCKS]

I will disagree about literacy.  I think that really depends on your non FSU social circle and educational level. 

Boethius:

I know you're up in Canada and believe me I will accept that the Canadian public school system is above ours. My observation is based upon thousands of conversations I had with adults, university students and 16+ young adults. Comparing to those same groups here in the US (also including three years of teaching in a US HS and over 13 years in American universities and colleges) it was my conclusion that the verbal abilities of Ukrainians are higher than the US. Teaching finance gave me an indication that the current generation is about equal to our math levels.

Obviously I never graded their Russian spelling tests but any problems I noticed in English were corrected fairly quickly. Throw in that many, though certainly not all, have at least a smattering of a third or fourth language and I'm comfortable placing their literacy above ours. There are reports showing us lower on the list but the percentage points are difference are insignificant IMO. It's an honest estimate.

I do believe our college graduates are much more broadly educated and also have more depth in their subjects although many of the programs which they call college we would only class as trade schools or Associates degrees from our junior college system. I was generally disappointed with the college programs which I reviewed and found them lacking in applied studies, sticking mostly to theory presentation.

[Taz]

Has anybody looked for a wife in Donetsk?  That place must be loaded - I do know the mafia is the strongest there in all FSU so they may have all the gorgeous women.

Lot of attractive women there in Donetsk. I am truly surprised more women don't want to leave as that area has been particularly hard by the economic crisis. Mariupol is in that area and hit even harder. However there are some decent agencies there. You could always look on Flirt or Dating or one of the Mamba affiliates.

Places where I think it has dried up a lot with respect to searching for a foreign husband is pretty much Crimea. Not much going in Sevastopol, Simferopol, Yalta, etc. Not to say that you can't find someone there but compared to before there is vastly less interest. Never saw much interested either in Western Ukraine either. Kiev and Odessa have a ton of pro daters too. I'd say around Dnepro (Dnepro proper, Zap, Krivoy Rog, Dneprozhdzhinsk, etc.) is about the best and Kharkov too. Those are the general regions I'd go to if I wanted to maximize my chances. Others may have different suggestions based on their own personal experience.

[Sculpto]

Mariopol is a different story than Donetsk proper.. as would be Makeevka and any of the other smaller outlying cities.  There is a lot of city pride in Donetsk and with the success of the football team and the upcoming Euro championships or whatever it is they are hosting it just adds to that sense of civic pride.  You know they all love Yanukovich and Akmetov.  Downtown Donetsk is not an unpleasant place to be.. the square is nice and the lake is cool.  For the bikers in the crowd the Chicago club has a Harley bar full of bikers.. it was the ONLY place in Donetsk I got stared at.. I think they all know each other.  Upstairs at the Chicago club disco is where I saw teenieboppers tripping out on E, plus on the street near the entrance.. just about every night of the week I saw that.. it was on my way home.

I also noticed that many of the Donbass ladies have high end aspirations.  There were LOTS of very good looking women that were driving new BMWs and other expensive cars and everyone wants to go for dinner in the Donbass Palace and some other high end places.  There was an outdoor pizza cafe on Artioma I went to frequently.. oh my god the beauty of the women in that place killed me.. right before they got into the black Hummers with tinted windows that were lined up in a row on the side street... sometimes three of them for one guy... dudes dressed in black.. wearing sunglasses at night..

There are a lot of college aged students all over Donetsk and a lot more girls than guys...  Good for a young guy.. again.. enroll in a two week or month long Russian language course which are run through the Uni and a bargain (last time I checked) compared to language courses in Kiev or Odessa or Moscow.. would be a duck shoot for a guy with game and the appearance of a little bit of money.

Taz might want to mention the good agencies in Mariopol because towards the end of my tenure with HRB and 1st I I was getting a lot of scam attempts that originated in that city.

Whats the word on Sumy these days?  My good friend Sergei that I knew in Donetsk has gone back to his home town in Sumy and is in current contact (lost him for a while).. so I do have a very reliable, not in the industry, guide I can recommend.  I am pretty sure he is still working as a taxi driver.  He is a big guy that did his army service and speaks passable English and understands very well Ukrainian girls.

[Taz]

Sculpto - I've been to both places frequently but there is a lot of intertwined business dealings. The coal goes to the steel plants which are pretty much shut down or going bankrupt. No selling of coal hurts the Donbas region quite a bit. Men without jobs are as active in the local women scene with.

Sumy has a lot of young women. If are looking in the early to mid 20's, it might be a good place. JD of TR fame went there recently and found a woman. I met her and she seemed pretty nice but he is way too demanding and will likely dump her if he hasn't already done so...  He noted as well that not many available women considering foreigners in the late 20's to 30's there.

[Sculpto]

Sculpto - I've been to both places frequently but there is a lot of intertwined business dealings. The coal goes to the steel plants which are pretty much shut down or going bankrupt. No selling of coal hurts the Donbas region quite a bit. Men without jobs are as active in the local women scene with.

Sumy has a lot of young women. If are looking in the early to mid 20's, it might be a good place. JD of TR fame went there recently and found a woman. I met her and she seemed pretty nice but he is way too demanding and will likely dump her if he hasn't already done so...  He noted as well that not many available women considering foreigners in the late 20's to 30's there.

FIGs seem to weigh in heavily.. I read there is a HUGE rivalry between Donetsk and Dnepro that isn't always peaceful.  Saturdays in the square was one wedding after another.. I was impressed with how many weddings I saw and how many young couples were all over the place.  I don't think a foreign guy has a lot of chances in Donetsk, unless he has TONS of charm.

one thing the Nigerian guys told me.. "if you try to find a girl in Donetsk you have to be ready to spend because the local men will spend their last $ to impress a girl"

[Boethius]

I do believe our college graduates are much more broadly educated and also have more depth in their subjects although many of the programs which they call college we would only class as trade schools or Associates degrees from our junior college system. I was generally disappointed with the college programs which I reviewed and found them lacking in applied studies, sticking mostly to theory presentation.

I think that is a big problem in Ukraine and Russia.  It is a holdover from communism, where you could get a good basic education, but no ability to think independently or perhaps, creatively.  I think that is changing. 

What I often found was that there was that reading Flaubert, or de Maupassant, or Dickens, or Goethe seemed to be enough.  More often than not, if you asked questions on what interested them, they would not have an even rudimentary understanding of these works was beyond their comprehension.  Same with Gogol or Dostoevsky, which, given they were in programmes of study, was quite shocking.

I'm not suggesting this was universal, obviously, but it was more common than not.

[jdk1963]

I do believe our college graduates are much more broadly educated and also have more depth in their subjects although many of the programs which they call college we would only class as trade schools or Associates degrees from our junior college system. I was generally disappointed with the college programs which I reviewed and found them lacking in applied studies, sticking mostly to theory presentation.

Now that is a scary thought!  I've found the majority of our college graduates to be absolutely worthless.  The good ones are few and far between. 

[Sculpto]

Now that is a scary thought!  I've found the majority of our college graduates to be absolutely worthless.  The good ones are few and far between. 

That depends a lot on what Uni you are near jdk.. in this neck of the woods its Berkeley, Stanford, UC Davis, USF and even most of the SF state grads are usually pretty impressive.  On the other hand.. Chico grads somehow manage to get their diploma in between parties.. the difference is obvious when interviewing people.

[Boethius]

I think it also depends on one's specialty.  

There is even a lot of atrocious spelling and grammar on this board.  Grammar I give a pass to, as posts are like conversation in exchange/flow/movement.  But I am always astounded by the number of individuals who can't differentiate between there/their or they're/their, affect/effect, then/than, etc.

[Sculpto]

aT leAst wE dOnT TyPe lIke tHis

[Hub]

Another city heard from:

FSUW are more attractive than AW.
FSUW are personally cleaner than AW.
FSUW are in better shape than the AW.
FSUW keep a cleaner house than the AW.
FSUW are every bit as materialistic as AW, maybe more.
FSUW are more literate than AW.
FSUW are more absolute than AW.

I debated making a flat statement that FSUW are more beautiful than AW and just cannot quite do it. However, I am absolutely certain that if you grabbed the first 100 women you saw at the top of the Kreshatyk metro escalator at 9 AM and compared them to the first 100 women to come out of Grand Central Station or DC's primary downtown station at the same time of the workday, there would be between 2 and 3 times as many "beautiful" women in the Kreshatyk group by normal standards.

- - - - -

It is my contention that, aside from the slender variable (better shape in your words), there is no difference in the pretty/beautiful/attractive variable between FSUW and AW.

You seem to disagree.

I suggested the perceived difference by most was due to fact that FSUW took more care with makeup and hair, and dressed more provocatively.

So perhaps we should more concisely define what beauty we are talking about.

First could be defined as 'natural' beauty (sans makeup and provocative clothing) and second could be defined as 'finished' beauty meaning as seen on the street in full regalia.

I have frequent interaction with college aged AW, and I contend their 'natural' beauty (except for slender) is equal to that of a 'stripped down' sample of similar age from Khreshatic street.

What say ye?

[ECOCKS]

What say I?

Well, apparently my attempt to express this failed.

All I can say is that I very deliberately said "attractive" which covers the shape, dress and general presentation of a woman.

As for beauty, you'll just have to read the last section and go from there. Feel free to go to Kyiv's Kreshatyk metro around 8:30 or 9:00AM some morning and check what I call the "ooomph" factor. That is, how many women do you see who literally take your breath away? For me it was noticeably higher in Kyiv than any other place I have lived or visited.

[KenC]

Hub,
I have to agree with your comments.  Most women from the fsu maximize their beauty with the best possible presentation.  A lot of AW just don't give a damn about how they look in public.  Who knows how things would change if AW put forth more effort?

Another factor may be that many of us find that "slavic look" very appealing.
KenC

[Sculpto]

Hub.. the ivory tower is not an accurate sampling. 

I would also say.. there are more young people in the FSU than in the USA.  At least it seemed so to me.. no statistics to back it up.

[Lily]

Sculpto, there are seemingly more young people in the FSU because IMHO the older people tend not to go out and generally don't tend to enjoy life as much as their peers in the West. Older people in the FSU carry an additional burden of discrimination and of the sense being unwelcome in public. Sometimes when I see an old person who langsam tries to go in a city tram, especially in Samara, I hear around some disapproving voices like 'Here an old cow again, she 'd better sit at home and not stop the pack in transport' .

[Sculpto]

Sculpto, there are seemingly more young people in the FSU because IMHO the older people tend not to go out and generally don't tend to enjoy life as much as their peers in the West. Older people in the FSU carry an additional burden of discrimination and of the sense being unwelcome in public. Sometimes when I see an old person who langsam tries to go in a city tram, especially in Samara, I hear around some disapproving voices like 'Here an old cow again, she 'd better sit at home and not stop the pack in transport' .

That is sad Lily.  Age discrimination is IMO maybe the ugliest form of all the different kinds of bigotry.  I love old people and always have.. don't understand why young people discard them.

here are a couple of sites from the us census

http://www.census.gov/ipc/prod/ib96-2.pdf
http://www.census.gov/ipc/prod/97agewc.pdf

I havent read them yet.. but the answer to the question is in there..

[SANDRO43]

There is even a lot of atrocious spelling and grammar on this board.  Grammar I give a pass to, as posts are like conversation in exchange/flow/movement.  But I am always astounded by the number of individuals who can't differentiate between there/their or they're/their, affect/effect, then/than, etc.

Probably they use the Spellchecker, and are quite satisfied when it shows no errors - as if that could mean that their spelling is not abysmally hopeless, e.g. when writing IT'S for the 3rd person singular neuter possessive adjective .

[Hub]

Feel free to go to Kyiv's Kreshatyk metro around 8:30 or 9:00AM some morning and check what I call the "ooomph" factor. That is, how many women do you see who literally take your breath away? For me it was noticeably higher in Kyiv than any other place I have lived or visited.

I have been right there for several mornings, noons and evenings; as recently as 2 weeks ago.
Yes, I know what you mean.  But it is the dress and makeup that give the ooomph.
Men are attracted to the 'hooker look.'  Otherwise, hookers would not dress as they do.

Another interesting related point.  I asked several Kyiv women about the dress styles.
It was quite refreshing in that they readily admitted that 'all we do is for the men.'
This is in contrast to AW who vehemently declare that they dress for themselves (even when they go all out to look provocative.)

[Sculpto]

Writing on the internet is subject to new laws of grammatical and phonetical interpretation.  It is the destruction of language as we know it.  Language is evolving towards a new paradigm because of the immediacy of the new communications media and it is in no way limited to English.  Might as well embrace it because it isn't going away.  Plus, some of us are dyslexic and even with spell checker still mistakes make.  I never type hte or rwong or tons of other backwards wrdos.  For as much as I write you would all be shocked how much correction I make to make my posts close to readable.

My first year in college in a creative writing class the prof told us.. forget about grammar and spelling.. just concentrate on yrou ideas and thoughts.  Oh look.. another dyslexic mistake..

"there is unrest in the forest, there is trouble in the trees"