Question for the ladies-How important is a mans education?

[Gator]

After posting the above, I realize that this was a Question to Russian ladies.  Pardon me.  My punishment is to wear a skirt all day (or just put on eye liner).

Not being a RW, my opinion is highly debatable.

[Gator]

And now after my morning read, I see that we have a similar thread running elsewhere.

[Lily]

After posting the above, I realize that this was a Question to Russian ladies.  Pardon me.  My punishment is to wear a skirt all day (or just put on eye liner).

Not being a RW, my opinion is highly debatable.

Gator, your contribution to the point is terrific!

[Gator]

Intelligence takes many forms.  I recall the number of different ways numbering 7, 8, or even 9. 

The IQ tests and SAT tests measure mostly logic in linguistics and mathematics, and these two are largely the determinants of one's ability to earn a university degree. 

One's interpersonal intelligence (i. e. social intelligence) is more important to success after university days than the degree one earned (or "received" if in Russia).   Perhaps even more important is intrapersonal intelligence, with some prime examples of ineptitude expressed in the archives of RWD.
 

[acrzybear]

And now after my morning read, I see that we have a similar thread running elsewhere.

You are correct Gator

Per Lilys' suggestion I opened up this topic in  "ask a Russian woman section".  

I also changed a few things because everyone seemed to think I was inquiring in regards to my situation, which is not the case.  As you may or may not know I am a very inquisitive person and like to figure out why other folks think the way they do, is it cultural? Their environment? Social expectations? Tradition? I am also interested if a lady has changed her mind or perception after being exposed to a different environment and what made her change her mind.

 Your post was very informative and I enjoyed reading it, so with that in mind I will grant you a pass on wearing a skirt and eyeliner (unless you have this dying need to do so ) Also I would like to thank you for the promotion, but I am just a Sergeant not a Chief.  I was offered a position as a Lieutenant, but I would have actually lost money (no night, holiday or Sunday pay) and also I would have been stuck behind a desk doing paperwork - not for me. 
 

[Hub]

Possum took most of my words, but let me add a few more.

Buracracies and buracratic thinking occurs in USA, but it pales in comparison to most of Europe, the FSU and much of Asia.  These latter areas love the pieces of paper, the applications, the tedious processes, the endless stamps, approvals, etc.  So the people in these areas are attuned to thinking about documents and their importance to a successful life to a much greater extent than are people in USA.

It is so ingrained that a man is foolish to think that, in general, he can beat the thought process of the FSU ladies with regard to academic degrees.  Sure always exceptions but remember, even with highest academic degrees, we are already looking for a needle in haystack.  Without the degrees, the haystack gets a lot bigger and the needle gets a lot smaller.

It does no good to lament this situation and get all starry eyed about true romance, assert street smarts, point out the guy who beat the odds, etc.

[Faux Pas]

After posting the above, I realize that this was a Question to Russian ladies.  Pardon me.  My punishment is to wear a skirt all day (or just put on eye liner).

Not being a RW, my opinion is highly debatable.

That wouldn't be appropriate punishment as too many men are now wearing "guyliner"

[acrzybear]

Hey if the bureaucrats want paper certificates I can provide enough to choke a billy goat.  I have so many certificates from academies, training etc... that if I hung them up it would take up almost all of the wall space in my residence.  All of these certificates are from classes that ranged from 24 hours to 80 hours in various topics all from well known accredited universities/colleges.

 

[SANDRO43]

Buracracies and buracratic thinking occurs in USA, but it pales in comparison to most of Europe, the FSU and much of Asia.

True, particularly in Latin countries. When I first went to work in the USA in 1991, I thought I could take the opportunity to log a few flying hours more cheaply there. It turned out that I'd have to visit the nearest Italian Consulate in order to have the US entries in my log book officially certified for them to be accepted back in Italy .

Fortunately, some 10 years ago they started introducing the new concept of self-certification here. What previously required some official piece of paper may now be obtained by simply signing a statement that due requirements are declared to be met.

We still have a long way to go, but the situation is gradually improving. Robbing a bureaucrat of his/her almighty stamp weapon is tantamount to castration .  

[Sculpto]

College degree means nothing to me but advanced education, such as one or more Master's degrees, is paramount.  Usually it demonstrates that a person possesses such essential skills as clear abstract reasoning, independent research, articulate speech and writing, ability to handle complex concepts, ability to use facts to support one's PoV, etc. - all that is essential in a person with whom I plan to spend considerable time under one roof. 

In my search, I set filters to the highest level of education: MA/PhD, and found my match. 

Funny I deal with people with those kinds of degrees all the time and it is quite typical that they couldn't understand how to use a level or have the least understanding of how to change their own tire. 

Great that you found your match, but, having a degree is not a true evaluation of intelligence and certainly not of practical life skills.  Being a snob doesn't make "you" better than others, just gives a false sense of superiority.. but now I understand you a lot more BF.  You revealed a lot in this last post.  When you get the title, "Lady Blues Fairy" bestowed on you by the QOE, then you can be a real verified snob and I will kiss your arse.    Until that time.. your poop goes down the same tube as the rest of us proles. 

[Sculpto]

A good, higher education is usually part and parcel of a steady job.

As you might be aware.. plumbers make very good money and never lack work. 

[Sculpto]

One's interpersonal intelligence (i. e. social intelligence) is more important to success after university days than the degree one earned (or "received" if in Russia).   Perhaps even more important is intrapersonal intelligence, with some prime examples of ineptitude expressed in the archives of RWD.
 

 

[acrzybear]

Funny I deal with people with those kinds of degrees all the time and it is quite typical that they couldn't understand how to use a level or have the least understanding of how to change their own tire. 

Great that you found your match, but, having a degree is not a true evaluation of intelligence and certainly not of practical life skills.  Being a snob doesn't make "you" better than others, just gives a false sense of superiority.. but now I understand you a lot more BF.  You revealed a lot in this last post.  When you get the title, "Lady Blues Fairy" bestowed on you by the QOE, then you can be a real verified snob and I will kiss your arse.    Until that time.. your poop goes down the same tube as the rest of us proles. 

Sculpto

 I agree that a degree in of itself is not a sign of intelligence, however as far as Blues Fairy is concerned perhaps she has reasons for the criteria she set. We do not know of her background or experience, and I think it's inappropriate for you to make your comments about her choices or attitude-after all don't we supposedly live in a free society? 



Blues Fairy

I am interested in why you placed the criteria you did.  Was there a specific field of discipline your significant other would need for your attention? Or
was it just the fact that the man spent the time and effort to attain that  level of degree and the field itself is not important? I have also heard the theory that if two highly intelligent people have a child, then that child will have higher odds of being "gifted". 
 

[Sculpto]

sorry Bear..

[Gator]

Yes, Sculpto, you should feel sorry for insulting BF.  If not, I suggest that you debate the subject of "intelligence and education" with BF with posts of 25 words or less.  BF gets her point across using few words, another sign of intelligence.

[Blues Fairy]

Being a snob doesn't make "you" better than others, just gives a false sense of superiority.. but now I understand you a lot more BF.  You revealed a lot in this last post.  When you get the title, "Lady Blues Fairy" bestowed on you by the QOE, then you can be a real verified snob and I will kiss your arse.    Until that time.. your poop goes down the same tube as the rest of us proles. 

Here's an example of a poorly educated person unable to reason clearly and hence drawing faulty, emotionally driven conclusions from my non-generalized, personal preference.  Seeing snobbery in my post reveals more about your own insecurities than about me. 

And by the way, my highly educated husband is excellent with tires and all other kinds of handy work.  And he's a Black Belt, 4th degree, just FYI.  Now you can kiss my royal arse.  :evil:

[acrzybear]

And by the way, my highly educated husband is excellent with tires and all other kinds of handy work.  And he's a Black Belt, 4th degree, just FYI.  Now you can kiss my royal arse.  :evil:

Well Blues Fairy  I might be tempted, but your husband might beat me up  

But seriously though, if you don't mind could you answer some of the inquiries I posted above?

Thanks

[Sculpto]

out of deference to Bear.. I am not going to respond in this thread.

[Blues Fairy]

But seriously though, if you don't mind could you answer some of the inquiries I posted above?

Happy to oblige.

I am interested in why you placed the criteria you did.  Was there a specific field of discipline your significant other would need for your attention? Or was it just the fact that the man spent the time and effort to attain that  level of degree and the field itself is not important?

Time and effort surely counts, as does persistence in attaining a time- and effort-consuming goal when faced with various distractions and difficulties.  But for me, higher education mostly means a certain mindset and way of thinking, an academic imprint on the personality, speech, reasoning etc.  The more time one spends doing rigorous academic work and mingling with the community, the more such imprint is discernible, even in everyday communication.

Having said that, I seriously dislike the liberal mush most of today's American colleges and universities load into the heads of their students.  Finding a person who has been there, but withstood the indoctrination and retained the ability to reason, is a rare stroke of luck.  

[ScottinCrimea]

Just a few of my thoughts...

For my wife, intelligence in a man was an absolute requirement.  While there are always exceptions, where are you most likely to find a man with intelligence, among the high school dropouts or among those with higher degrees?  We talk on this forum about ways to narrow our search by sticking to some criteria or other, well guess what, they are doing the same.

A higher education also shows one’s self discipline and ability to stick to something and complete it rather than dropping out at the first sign of boredom or difficulty – another positive trait in a spouse.

For a RW, stability is very important and a diploma suggests a higher level of stability.  People want to debate experience vs education as if having one excludes someone from having the other, and we can always cite examples of this, but I don’t believe these are the norm.  The ideal, of course, is someone with both, and a diploma is much easier to measure than experience in the hiring process.  As we have learned from the recent economic crisis, no job is stable, and if it comes down to having to find a new job, those with a diploma will have an advantage over those without.  A RW knows this.

As much as we want to discount women who think this way, most here agree that, as a general rule, status is important to a RW, maybe even more so than to a AW.  Given the choice between having for a husband a college professor or a plumber who makes more money, they will choose the professor.

I know there are many here without the advanced degree that make good money and are very happy with their lives.  I think that’s great.  But I think it’s wrong to take offense and insult women who want something different just because the man doesn’t have what they want or need.  Many of the men’s preferences are very arbitrary and would seem quite shallow to most women.  Just look back on some of the issues we have debated here.  Accept the concept that what you are or what you have won’t appeal to all women and focus on the narrower pool of those to whom your looks, money, credentials, whatever, so appeal to.

On a personal note, and in response to some of CB’s comments, I remember hating calculus and loathing the idea that I had to not only pass it, but get an A out of it as a prerequisite to applying for medical school.  It was especially galling because I never used calculus in medical school and haven’t used it once since graduating.  So why would they feel the need to subject me to such torture?

Only later did I come to understand why.  They didn’t care that I knew calculus, but they did care that I was an applicant who was able to think in the manner that calculus requires.  It teaches a manner of thinking and observing things that is essential to one who aspires to be a good physician.  They didn’t want someone who knew calculus; they wanted someone who had developed a method of thinking that went beyond 1+1=2.

I realize that, for me personally, my education not only prepared me to earn a living, but subjects such as art, architecture, history and philosophy opened up new worlds to me and have given me the ability to better understand, appreciate, and enjoy the world around me.

[Gator]

Sculpto, smart move to back off.

You liked my comment, "One's interpersonal intelligence (i. e. social intelligence) is more important to success after university days than the degree one earned (or "received" if in Russia).   Perhaps even more important is intrapersonal intelligence, with some prime examples of ineptitude expressed in the archives of RWD."

Do not get carried away; Forrest Gump would score high with regard to interpersonal and intrapersonal intelligence.  You want a chocolate?

[Gator]

Scott,

You are enlightened as well as highly educated.

[acrzybear]

So your objective was two fold (overly simplified I know, but it will do for now)

1) The ability of defining a goal and then achieving that goal over a period of time while overcoming various obstacles and distractions. Subconsciously do you think this would also re enforce your thinking that your partner is able to commit to a relationship and provide a more stable environment for a family unit?  

2) That being formally educated allows one a more prominent status in today's society or peers. Not withstanding your thoughts on the education system in the United States (which I agree wholeheartedly), do you believe that the completion of a higher education automatically qualifies a person to the entitlement of a better position in society? Also just because a person has a higher education will they automatically have manners? Does the ability to either insult or compliment a person using ten dollars words instead of normal words important?


 Blues Fairy
  I know there parts of society (call them elitist if you will) that believe you have to go to certain ivy league schools and be members of certain country clubs etc.. in order to be accepted by their peers.  Social class aside I am interested why (or if) a woman would use the degree as a deal breaker.  

 I ask these questions because I am genuinely interested in your thought process and beliefs

Thank you for you time


 

[ECOCKS]

Hey Bear.

I talked with my wife about your question and she somewhat echoed the comments of the other RW although she also said that there is no reason to be too worried about it. having just read your most recent post, would you want to hang out with an AW who checked your diploma and attached some sort opf value to which school you attended to get your degree?

Tradesmen and craftsmen, be they plumbers, carpenters, fencing specialists or cops are at a historical disadvantage in the FSU. Here they can start their businesses, make initially small but ultimately larger investments in the stock markets or real estate. This leads them to an appreciably high level of stability and comfort despite their "lowly" work. Even the best plumbers had no opportunity in their world to rent an office, stock supplies, buy some trucks, install a radio dispatch system, etc. A few have begun this type of entrepreneurial growth and are changing perceptions but it is a long, uphill climb. We also had been looking at large travel trailers, including 5th wheelers, and when she asked how so many of these could be on the roads and privately owned she became more and more understanding of how our cars and private ownership affect quality of life.

In your particular case there is the added stigma that militsia are corrupt, poorly paid and politically dependent on the whims of their superiors (who in turn are politically depen...). One of my wife's biggest revelations so far has been meeting a couple of policemen here in the US. One loved the appearance of her driver's license and talked with her regarding driving around here versus the streets and highways of Ukraine. He was neatly uniformed (clean white pull-over and bicycle shorts (motorcycle cop) and was quick ith answers and suggestions on building up her driving skills. The second was incredibly polite (sigh, as he gave me a ticket) and inquired about our carrying handguns (he had my permit in his hand and asked her if she was also carrying. She was surprised that he encouraged her to practice and become more proficient and that he was easily separating doing his job from being a human being.

So, long-winded but you seemed interested in the cultural backgrounds and differences. Bottom line, I think you need tobe understanding and patient, fully explaining how being a police officer (or tradesman/craftsman) is of far less consequence to your stability and income producing potential. Try to strke a balance between explaining the social position and civil service stability. She felt most women would get over this quickly enough, especially any who have travelled a bit and seen other police besides their own models. The military professions have the same problem BTW.  You may not be on their search strings (per BF's commment) but you shouldn't have any particular problem overcoming this with a worthwhile woman.

[acrzybear]

Scott

A very enlightening post-well said  

 It was interesting how you mentioned the men that get wrapped around the axle when a women will not consider them if they do not have a degree.  I think this shows how different the genders think when it comes to a mate.   Women as a general rule tend to be more cerebral (emotions, communication, observant, calculating etc...) as most men tend to be more visual and hands on.  The best way to get a woman to sleep with you is to excite her mind, to excite a man on the other hand all a woman has to do is take her clothes off.

 In one of my report writing classes, I have one of the support staff come into the room, talk to me and hand me some papers and then leave the room.  What I found interesting when I started doing this several years ago is that the men noticed her physical features (she's a personal trainer), however the woman usually notice the minute details such as the type and color of her shoes, the type of clothes she was wearing and her body language. The men on the other had were thinking "nice body".