Ladies, are you receiving better healthcare in the United States?

[Sculpto]

The cost of the medical services, ergo insurance premiums, may be cut through malpractice reform.  Signing up everyone to the government plan will not lower the cost of the medical services; as I said in the previous post, good care will ALWAYS be expensive.  Now, the uninsured who go to ER and don't pay are at least guaranteed treatment which is later absorbed by the system, i.e. insured people, whereas under totalitarian gov't program, the bureaucrats will "cut the costs" through deciding who gets treatment and who does not.  It's inevitable if the government manages the centralized insurance, and it's already in the bill.

If I were a terminal cancer patient ineligible for private insurance, I would vastly prefer having an actual choice, whether to be treated (and incur bills) or screw it - rather than depend on the government to decide it for me, whether I need a surgery or a painkiller.  

Besides, putting such a tremendous amount of money into a government program is a terrible idea; the funds will be raped just like Medicare and Medicaid, which are in shambles under "excellent" government management.  Whereas private insurance companies making profits off the premiums do not just benefit the owners but a whole bunch of employees and stock holders, making the economy healthier overall.  Making profit is not a crime in this country (yet).

Wait until you have a serious illness and then report back to us.  Your perceptions are misinformed and your approval of insurance companies is just weird.

by the way.. what is currently working its way the government is a mess.. I am already writing my senators against it. 

And yes you are correct.. malpractice suits are a big part of the problem. 

[ECOCKS]

The good news is that it looks like the pricetag, along with some thankful sanity, has doomed this project in the short-term. Even the Democratic majority is increasingly hesitant to expose the current administration to more risk of failure as the effect of the stimulus is questioned. Attempting to establish a national healthcare system will be a bureaucratic nightmare of epic proportions, just look at how difficult it has been to pull together the Dept. of Homeland Security.

Oddly, there is a crying need for a national insurance plan which could provide a viable option in terms of costs and availability for the nation's small business segment. This may prove to be a functional compromise in a few years which would allow the government and the people to get a taste of what the costs, service and efficacy of a national healthcare program might be. Another compromise possibility could be some sort of national plan for the unemployed and those who meet some determination (ah, therein lies the rub) of need.

Personally, I would have rather seen some of the stimulus monies used in this direction (particularly to aid small business and the recently unemployed segments) rather than the bailouts of the auto and securities/banking industry.

[BillyB]

I needed to see a doctor urgently, and i was offered the nearest appointment in a week from my call.

You don't need to wait for one doctor, you could go to others. It's not the doctor's fault you waited a week and remained ill. Under a government plan you certainly may be restricted where and when you could go. A friend of mine's father had lung cancer and private insurance. A few doctors told him he had 6-12 months to live. He went to the University of Washington and they said "we'll fix you right up". They removed 1/3rd of a lung and the other lung completely. He's still living 15 years after the surgery. Under a government plan there will probably be restrictions on how many doctors you could see before they tell you that you have to accept what they say.

though i was reluctant to see the doctors, i needed to ask for prescription for antibiotics.

Antibiotics is not the answer for a cold. There is no cure for the cold, only medicines that can reduce the symptoms you get from a cold. If the doctor agreed you had a cold and did not give you antibiotics, you would not happy with his performance. Yes?

The nurse could not give me any health recommendations (because with her qualification she is not allowed to do so, and in USA - i believe they even cannot express personal opinions)

My ex wife felt the same way. She was a Ukrainian who I met in the States and going to school to be a nurse. It's a good policy when nurses keep their mouths shut because their opinion may not be the answer and it's the doctor/hospital that pays for bad advice given.

I went through "storage boxes" at home, found remainders of antibiotics, bought few bottles of Tussin, called home asking to send me medication, and waited until the package arrived. Package arrived about the time when local doctor became available.

Bad. Shame on you. Most likely you did not follow directions of the antibiotics and finished it. Then you use the remaining amount for another illness that may or may not be treated by that antibiotic effectively. Reliance on and unnecessary use of antibiotics can hurt your immune system if it starts to rely on outside sources to solve all your illnesses. Also not taking recommended dose till completion gives bacteria a chance to fight back and if they survive the antibiotics, there is a possibility they could mutate into something stronger and something unstoppable.

Good things about FSU medicine - doctors usually treat the cause, not just the effect. If there is a pain - they first do all tests to find what causing it, and not give you the painkillers to fight the pain. They also use more integral approach to the health care.
In USA, in my experience, it's exactly vice versa.

The fact you got antibiotics tells me your statement isn't entirely true. Antibiotics treat the cause, not the effect. If you simply have a cold, no doctor, even if he/she is Russian, can treat the cause, only the effects.

[ECOCKS]

Unfortunately, there is a real problem in Eastern Europe with overuse of antibiotics. Several varieties (a LOT of them) are available OTC and people regard that as a self-cure alternative to any little sniffle. The long-term effects are beginning to showup in the population.

I regard this as one indication of the generally lower level of medical training in the region.

[SANDRO43]

Under a government plan there will probably be restrictions on how many doctors you could see before they tell you that you have to accept what they say.

Mere speculation, depends on the system. I can go see my own physician - he's the person empowered to prescribe medicines, analyses and specialist visits - explain I want a 2nd or Nth opinion and he'll oblige me, unless he's convinced I'm some sort of raving hypochondriac.

Alternatively, I can go privately, and deduct 20% of the cost in my tax return.

[Sculpto]

http://www.medhunters.com/articles/healthcareInGermany.html

the french system is even better

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/08/11/frances_model_healthcare_system/

[groovlstk]

It happened not once that I needed to see a doctor urgently, and i was offered the nearest appointment in a week from my call.

Don't feel too bad, my wife tried to make an appointment with an OB/GYN that came highly recommended by some of our friends and was told the first available appointment was March, 2010 

[SANDRO43]

An important aspect I forgot to mention, preventive medicine. Our system pays for periodic tests aimed at the early diagnosis of breast and uterus cancer in women, among others.

I'm a heavy smoker, and 4 years ago I joined similar programs for lung and colon cancers. Totally free .

[BillyB]

You are paying now for insurance. In case of socialized medicine instead of paying for insurance you will pay taxes. Instead of wasting money for insurance companies staff - money will be used to increase the quantity of doctors. (This is more of a "silly" example - but it delivers my general idea). As for more doctors needed - maybe local doctors can start working more efficiently and then they can serve more patients.

Government rarely does anything efficiently. Even if you get rid of insurance company's staff and replace it with a government program, the government will hire their own staff to handle the paperwork. What else should we trust the government to buy for us with our own tax dollars? Homes? Did the Soviet people enjoy the flats they were awarded? Was it your dream home?

I do think that these tens of millions (or in fact more than tens of millions) of people who currently cannot afford healthcare - need the healthcare too.

America has plenty of social programs to help the poor and medical benefits are included. Do you see the streets filled with poor women and children on the verge of death? People may be poor but they're not that dumb when knowing where to apply for free housing, food stamps, and welfare. Free help is out there. Too many handouts, and people will start abusing the system and overloading on drugs with stories of make believe illnesses. Who cares? They're not going to pay for it.

If the healthcare system will not see changes here in the nearest years - I am seriously considering moving back to Europe, or maybe Canada. I do not know what may happen in future, I cannot be sure that I will be always receiving healthcare insurance from my employer, or that I will be always employed, and will not need any costly treatment. But I do want to feel secure and to know that I will be able to receive healthcares.

Look at the big picture. Socialized health care shouldn't be the only reason you want to live in a country. Europeans are coming here at a much higher rate than Americans going there for reasons of their own. Too many social programs and higher taxes are going to create a burden on the public and of course quality in other areas of life will decrease. Maybe they've seen the effects of too many social programs and they don't like it?

[Blues Fairy]

Your perceptions are misinformed and your approval of insurance companies is just weird.

How so? Are you going to explain to me that insurance companies' profits are harming the economy and they are just a bunch of greedy capitalists reaping fat bonuses off the suffering of the sick people? 

[brucen36]

I've had plenty of experience with both the US and Canadian healthcare systems.  It always comes down to the same thing.  If you have money and can afford good healthcare, there is no contest, America is way better than Canada.  If you don't have money, then Canada is better since it's free and decent overall.  But wait time are horrible in Canada compared to America.  But hey, that's the price you pay for most government run things.

[mies]

Lowering the taxes and creating more jobs (with employer-provided or private health insurance) will solve part of the problem.  As for those who don't want to work but still want to enjoy social entitlements, well, sorry.  

it looks like you are misinformed. The poorest (who don't work) and the richest (who work much, have other advantages, or are lucky) - both groups get access to the healthcare in USA. The intermediate group (people who do work, but do not earn much) have problems accessing the healthcare.

Also, I don't see any logic in your approach - eagerly paying insurance companies - when they got most profit for the service they didn't provide (that is they make profit on people who pay for insurance but don't use the services), but you don't want your money to help your country become a better place. It's essential to contribute to your community. Otherwise - world will be quite miserable place.
If a rich guy asks me for money, and a poor - i'd rather give money to the poor. I don't want to be contributing to insurance company employee buying BMW, but i'll be happy to know that my poor neighbor's kids will be treated well when they need it.

How are you going to lower the taxes?

[Sculpto]

How so? Are you going to explain to me that insurance companies' profits are harming the economy and they are just a bunch of greedy capitalists reaping fat bonuses off the suffering of the sick people? 

No, I will tell you insurance company profits are hurting peoples health and creating a massive burden on the entire economy.  It is a ponzi scheme.

[mies]

Did the Soviet people enjoy the flats they were awarded? Was it your dream home?

in fact - I did enjoy the place I grew up in, and it still looks like my dream home. My parents own 3-bedroom apartment with large "living room" (4 rooms in total), huge kitchen - times bigger than kitchens in apartments in American cities, large room with bath, and normal size toilet. In total the apartment is about 100m2 (sorry don't know how to translate to sq.feet). The apartment is in downtown, faces the park with the lake. It is beautiful. Very quiet though minutes away from the very center of my 300'000 town. The comparable apartment somewhere in similarly sized/located american city would be couple hundreds $$ these days. Before the crisis  - more. My parents got this apartment from state when my father was 35 and my mom 30.
You have to be really making good money in USA if you want to buy same quality apartment before you are 35.

My grandparents have also large 4-room apartment. I never had any complaints about my living conditions back at home. The quality of the home was incomparably better than most of plaster homes you can find here in USA.
My other grandparents lived in the remote village. Sadly, they both are dead now. They had 1 old large house. And have built another, even bigger house - so that each of their sons will inherit his own house. They didn't have running water, or gas, but otherwise - the house was very convenient, clean, well-built. It was built in early 20s century, and is still functioning perfectly without any major repairs - unlike so many houses here in USA, or back there in FSU, which have cracks, and leakages, and millions of problems.

America has plenty of social programs to help the poor and medical benefits are included. Do you see the streets filled with poor women and children on the verge of death? People may be poor but they're not that dumb when knowing where to apply for free housing, food stamps, and welfare. Free help is out there. Too many handouts, and people will start abusing the system and overloading on drugs with stories of make believe illnesses. Who cares? They're not going to pay for it.

i already wrote - that some people earn "too much" to qualify for free help, but not enough to afford the not free healthcare. They are most disadvantaged in USA. Also - i've heard multiple stories about the quality of "free health care" in this country.

Look at the big picture. Socialized health care shouldn't be the only reason you want to live in a country. Europeans are coming here at a much higher rate than Americans going there for reasons of their own. Too many social programs and higher taxes are going to create a burden on the public and of course quality in other areas of life will decrease. Maybe they've seen the effects of too many social programs and they don't like it?

of course this isn't the only reason. Money isn't everything, and I value public goods - which are in fact most efficiently provided by state. When private for-profits get their hands on a public good - in most cases it leads to total disaster. I think the quality of life greatly increases when there are many public goods provided for all citizens.

[Misha]

My parents own 3-bedroom apartment with large "living room" (4 rooms in total), huge kitchen - times bigger than kitchens in apartments in American cities, large room with bath, and normal size toilet. In total the apartment is about 100m2 (sorry don't know how to translate to sq.feet).

Something tells me that your parents were high ranking Soviet officials. Common workers with no connections did not get such apartments 

[Blues Fairy]

Also, I don't see any logic in your approach - eagerly paying insurance companies - when they got most profit for the service they didn't provide (that is they make profit on people who pay for insurance but don't use the services), but you don't want your money to help your country become a better place. It's essential to contribute to your community. Otherwise - world will be quite miserable place.
If a rich guy asks me for money, and a poor - i'd rather give money to the poor. I don't want to be contributing to insurance company employee buying BMW, but i'll be happy to know that my poor neighbor's kids will be treated well when they need it.

Mies, it's totally your right to give your money to whom you wish.  That's the beauty of a free society.  But if you want to live in a free society, you must also acknowledge MY right to give MY money to whom I wish, be it the poor or the insurance company (public, transparent, accountable) who also invests money how it sees fit to maximize its profits and competes in a free market, keeping its stockholders informed about its investments and expenditures.  

Government-run health care, however, gives me no choice or transparency of this kind.  It will take my money and I won't even be able to trace where it went, to "better the community" or to stuff some bureaucrat's pockets.  And while doing that, it will also make decisions for me what kind of treatment I deserve or do not deserve.  

Besides, you seem to completely misunderstand how insurance system works if you think that the insurance company gets paid for nothing.  It covers your risks and calculates your premiums based on the probability of your expenses.  In the same way, you pay a flat monthly fee for a telephone service though you might not use the phone as much in any given month and a bit more than usual the next month.  The fee covers the median cost of usage, plus overhead, plus profit.  Making profit is NOT a crime in a free society.

[Sculpto]

Mies, it's totally your right to give your money to whom you wish.  That's the beauty of a free society.  But if you want to live in a free society, you must also acknowledge MY right to give MY money to whom I wish, be it the poor or the insurance company (public, transparent, accountable) who also invests money how it sees fit to maximize its profits and competes in a free market, keeping its stockholders informed about its investments and expenditures.  

Government-run health care, however, gives me no choice or transparency of this kind.  It will take my money and I won't even be able to trace where it went, to "better the community" or to stuff some bureaucrat's pockets.  And while doing that, it will also make decisions for me what kind of treatment I deserve or do not deserve.  

Besides, you seem to completely misunderstand how insurance system works if you think that the insurance company gets paid for nothing.  It covers your risks and calculates your premiums based on the probability of your expenses.  In the same way, you pay a flat monthly fee for a telephone service though you might not use the phone as much in any given month and a bit more than usual the next month.  The fee covers the median cost of usage, plus overhead, plus profit.  Making profit is NOT a crime in a free society.

Blues.. you sound very idealistic.. but in the wrong way.  Try owning a business and see if you feel the same way afterwards. 

If we continue on with what we have now the health insurance companies will suck the entire nation dry until there is nothing left.  They will (are already) make the scam the banks pulled look like nothing.

[BillyB]

My parents got this apartment from state when my father was 35 and my mom 30.
You have to be really making good money in USA if you want to buy same quality apartment before you are 35.

Off topic question but where did your parents live before the State felt they are deserving of an apartment? With their parents? Did they have any control over their destiny on when they could obtain an apartment and where they could live in the city or did they just have to wait for an official who felt they paid their dues to the State and gave them an apartment of his choosing and decided on where they are to live in the city. Why did your parents get such a good apartment and other married couples get a tiny apartment? How does the State make a determination on who gets what assuming bribes/corruption were not involved?

[Blues Fairy]

Blues.. you sound very idealistic.. but in the wrong way. 

Pot, kettle. 

[Sculpto]

Pot, kettle. 

LOL   

[bobb]

Actually the push to relax the rules to provide more mortgages to poor people is the key thing that caused the current financial crisis.  

When I read statements like this I cringe.  I am constantly amazed at some comments people make that are not based in reality.  Generally the people who post a great deal here are intelligent.  Even if I disagree with them I think about what they to say.  It's when they attempt to speculate, as Sandro043 points out so succinctly,

Mere speculation,...

they make it difficult to take seriously other posts where they do have knowledge and can help others. 

The original question is an interesting one.  I suppose I should have known the topic starter would get to his real agenda later on in the discussion.

[bobb]

Government-run health care, however, gives me no choice or transparency of this kind.  It will take my money and I won't even be able to trace where it went, to "better the community" or to stuff some bureaucrat's pockets.  And while doing that, it will also make decisions for me what kind of treatment I deserve or do not deserve.  

Maybe this is so in other countries.  It is not so in the health care reform being discussed now in Congress.  If you make statements such as you do above please make them from a position of knowledge.  I will let the following link refute many of your fantasies:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124580516633344953.html

[mies]

Something tells me that your parents were high ranking Soviet officials. Common workers with no connections did not get such apartments 

my both parents were talented engineers. So again - wrong guess.

[Ronnie]

America was founded on the idea that liberty means a very small role for government and that the individual is free to choose the course of his life.  He's free to refuse medical care and therefore insurance. 

The health care bill that Mr. Obama wants us to accept (the one he hasn't read), contains many abuses of an individual's freedom.  There is a fine of $2,500 annual on any person who refuses to buy health insurance.  There is mandatory counseling for people over 65, the purpose of which is to convince them they have lived their lives and now it's time to go gently into the night, therefore they will not be given any treatment that costs the government too much money.  And when you are a senior collecting a government pension or social security or both, your early demise would be deemed very patriotic indeed.  BTW, this is how Obama will solve the Social Security crisis.  As he said recently, "sometimes you just have to go with the pain pills."  Unbelievable!

So, apart from subjecting ourselves and our children to soviet-style tyranny, let's consider the wisdom of designating as the sole guardian of our health, someone who has strong incentive to see us die the minute we leave the workforce. 


 

[BillyB]

When I read statements like this I cringe.  I am constantly amazed at some comments people make that are not based in reality. 

Bobb, Blues is absolutely right. My mom deals with lots of real estate. She knows people on the inside. Those people work with much of the Vietnamese community in Seattle. Some are poor but if they say their annual income is $90,000 a year, they will qualify for a bigger loan than if they told the truth that they made much less. NOBODY verifies your income. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is a Clinton thing to help get more poor into houses. Unfortunately nobody figured how the poor was going to pay for a house they never should have been allowed to buy.