Being Greedy....

[Doll]

Kievstar has it correctly.  It is the amount a man spends relative to how much money he has.

Why is greedy (stingy) bad?

-  RW consider greedy actions as indicators of a selfish, egotistical man.

-  RW have a lot of pride. To ask her man repeatedly for money is like begging; they abhor it.  They expect a man to know.

-  RW are concerned with stability and security (justifiably so considering the economic ups and downs).  When times get difficult, a greedy man would not put his family first.

-  And the real reason:  RW follow the adage that money belongs NOT to the person who saves it but to the person who spends it.

Agree to all but for the last one. RW have a perfect understanding whose money it is.

[Faux Pas]

Man shows his affection or love to a woman by buying presents, flowers etc. Most of the women think so. If he doesn't want to spend some money he doesn't care about me, -they think. All AM are rich by FSU standards. When this "rich" AM came to FSU and did not invite her to a nice restaurant or bought presents/flours what do you think her impression would be?
I like to spend money for people that I care about. Isn’t it natural?

Very natural, to me any way. I have my vices but the lion share of my disposable income I spend on others. Much as Gator pointed out, because it makes me happy to do so and see them happy. Maybe that is selfish but I am unlikely to change at this stage in life. I remember all too well when I wasn't in a position to do so.

[Daveman]

Lily-- forgive the Russian language lesson....

Dave, when you live with a Russian woman, you live at the oral level.  Thus, I tend to write the language very infrequently, and when I do, I write it the way it sounds.  So Paca, paca it is...and not the polka dance. 

LoL.. yeah I hear ya.  That was my failed attempt at humor to lighten the mood..    So I'll run off and play a polka!

As another quick side comment.. do you guys realize that boaterguy JUST passed the 5 year milestone of marriage? I didn't see this until today..

Check it out:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7123.msg192258#msg192258

Sorry for a little further off topic wandering, Lily, but that's a pretty big deal!  BG, You should start a new thread and post your story.

[HiTech]

From what I have gathered "stingy" does not quite express the thought. Gators original word "selfish" I believe is closer than "stingy".

Stingy does not imply that you spend more on your self than others, Stingy implies you do not wish to spend at all. It can also imply Frugal which would be considered almost foxy and a good quality in the FSU.


HiTech

[Daveman]

Okay, so here's a related question.

I tend to be more like what Gemini and Faux Pas suggest, and that is,spoiling the holy heck out of anyone I care about (not only with gifts, but with romantic gestures, etc. things which cost money as well as actions which do not... I see all of it as merely giving smiles and wonderful feelings inside to the one I care about)  However, in other areas there have been suggestions that this kind of spoiling can and does give false impressions of a "lifestyle" that a woman might have after marriage.  Of course communication is a key ingredient..

So here's the question.. how does one balance that intrinsic desire (even a need) to give with the negative possibility of giving false impressions of some standard of life with our "vacation" spending?"

[Sculpto]

So here's the question.. how does one balance that intrinsic desire (even a need) to give with the negative possibility of giving false impressions of some standard of life with our "vacation" spending?"

I think you have to state it from the beginning.  I did.  I simply told her that when I was on vacation, and meeting her would be a vacation, that I am different in two ways from normal.. one, that i can appear a little lazy because I work hard when I am at home and I want to rest when on vacation.. and that secondly.. I would spend money like I was a rich man, but, that I had lived very frugal for months so that I would be able to spend what I want, where I want and how I want so we could have fun together but not to expect that to be a normal thing.  She understood it perfectly and went out of her way to be economical with my money and tried to make me spend less when possible.

Guys should not be putting women on pedestals and afraid to tell them whats up.

[Misha]

So here's the question.. how does one balance that intrinsic desire (even a need) to give with the negative possibility of giving false impressions of some standard of life with our "vacation" spending?"

I simply spent modestly. My wife went to a cafe on our first date, a movie the second, and the rest of the time we pretty much spent at her place or my place. One of our dates even involved going to plant potatoes in a village. How did we spend our time? We took walks, we did travel a bit, but inside Russia and the first true gift was a ring that I gaver her for her birthday after two months of dating. It helped that my wife had relatives in Germany and had spent much time there. She understood quite well an average life (mortgage and all) in a Western country.

[groovlstk]

So here's the question.. how does one balance that intrinsic desire (even a need) to give with the negative possibility of giving false impressions of some standard of life with our "vacation" spending?"

Since I joined RWD, I've seen a lot of new posters meet much younger women and then rationalize the age difference by saying "she insists the age gap is no issue for her."

I'd chalk this up in the same category - lots of guys think that telling their new GF that he's "not rich but lives well" or that he's "middle-class" is the end of the discussion if she doth not protest. Both are very dangerous assumptions.

[Simoni]

I simply spent modestly. My wife went to a cafe on our first date, a movie the second, and the rest of the time we pretty much spent at her place or my place.

THEN

Pretty much the same experience here. We mostly walked around Dnper, looking at parks and monuments, and of course the river.  We caught a few movies at the theater (in Russian) and ate out most meals, but food was inexpensive.  We bought cheap DVDs and watched movies on my computer, including her all time favorites. I carried along a data projector for my work, so we were able to blast the image into a wall size movie presentation.

NOW

To this day, we have not gone to a disco.  But shopping is growing as a practice!  I tend to carry along a good book and let her enjoy the experience without rushing her. She mostly looks...

[Sculpto]

I came back with money in my pocket both times.. she didn;t let me spend all that I had planned.. we ate at home 90% of the time.. and she got upset when I paid $50 per ticket to go to the theater.. though she did really enjoy the show haha.

[tfcrew]

I believe that being 'greedy' is the desire to possess far more than than one actually needs.
But for everyone and anyone that happens on to this post, I wish to say that some one can make a big mistake and get too cheap on themselves.
Do not do this.
For example..
Do not mail things 1st class USPS when it absolutely positively needs to get there ASAP.
Do not choose a multi-hour layover in an airport to save $50-$100 or so.
Do not order the cheapest flowers...you usually get what you pay for.

[gemini]

I think you have to state it from the beginning.  I did.  I simply told her that when I was on vacation, and meeting her would be a vacation, that I am different in two ways from normal.. one, that i can appear a little lazy because I work hard when I am at home and I want to rest when on vacation.. and that secondly.. I would spend money like I was a rich man, but, that I had lived very frugal for months so that I would be able to spend what I want, where I want and how I want so we could have fun together but not to expect that to be a normal thing.  She understood it perfectly and went out of her way to be economical with my money and tried to make me spend less when possible.

Guys should not be putting women on pedestals and afraid to tell them whats up.

I agree, most of the women understand the difference between spending money on vacation and during first dates vs real life. If she doesn't understand you can tell her. If woman is looking for love and wants to create a family it won't be a problem. If she wants “vacation forever" ... well it is her problem, not yours. You don't want to marry her anyway.
The only exception are the women that much younger. They might think they are exchanging their youth for the wealthy lifestyle. This situation needs very careful clarification. (even if man thinks he looks much younger)

[Simoni]

(...even if man thinks he looks much younger)

As most men here seem to state,
constantly :-)  LOL

[bobb]

Stingy implies you do not wish to spend at all. It can also imply Frugal...

I disagree strongly with this statement.

From Wikipedia:

Frugality is the practice of

   1. acquiring goods and services in a restrained manner, and
   2. resourcefully using already owned economic goods and services, to
   3. achieve a longer term goal.

Strategies for frugality

Common strategies of frugality include the reduction of waste, curbing costly habits, suppressing instant gratification by means of fiscal self-restraint, seeking efficiency, avoiding traps, defying expensive social norms, embracing cost-free options, using barter, and staying well-informed about local circumstances and both market and product/service realities.

Frugality in the context of certain belief systems, is a philosophy in which one does not trust, or is deeply wary of "expert" knowledge, often from commercial markets or corporate cultures, claiming to know what is in the best economic, material, or spiritual interests of the individual.

As a side note my fiancee's son (32) has been seeing a 'girlfriend' from Italy, who has been in their city for several months.  This woman has visited before.  I asked her what she thought of her.  She told me she is only interested in money and is not really good for her son, but he will have to see that for himself. 

[Misha]

Russians do have a word for someone who is frugal or thrifty: he is "экономный" (i.e. economical). It does not have negative connotations.

[Lily]

So here's the question.. how does one balance that intrinsic desire (even a need) to give with the negative possibility of giving false impressions of some standard of life with our "vacation" spending?"

I guess a typical RW would tell to this, 'Just go and earn more money'.

bobb, thank you for your post. Really I did not know those connotations!

As for achieving long -term goals, this is perhaps not very well written in books of typical Russians. People value today more than tomorrow, therefore many Russians are not very good at planning.

[bobb]

Russians do have a word for someone who is frugal or thrifty: he is "экономный" (i.e. economical). It does not have negative connotations.

Frugal and economical are synonyms.

One time I was in Victoria, B.C. - alone - and stayed in a hostel for a few days.  The next time I was with a girlfriend and we stayed in the Fairmont Empress.  A 'little' different accommodations.

[bobb]

As for achieving long -term goals, this is perhaps not very well written in books of typical Russians. People value today more than tomorrow, therefore many Russians are not very good at planning.

That is a very big difference in the mentality of many Russians vs. many Americans...or maybe I should say an increasingly smaller pool of Americans. 

But there is value in not trying to plan all the time.  There are many days when I have no idea what I will do the next day (weekend) but somehow I manage to fill the hours with whatever comes to mind.  Many times these are very enjoyable days as I'm sure most people have experienced the same.  We all know many Americans who over-plan and may not be able to function if they didn't.

[Ooooops]

Frugal and economical are synonyms.

They may be in a dictionary, buy in reality not buying a new car and saving the slivers from the used soap to wash your clothes later ain't the same thing.   

[Gator]

I guess a typical RW would tell to this, 'Just go and earn more money'.

Bingo!  A real strong man would do that.

[Gator]

As for achieving long -term goals, this is perhaps not very well written in books of typical Russians. People value today more than tomorrow, therefore many Russians are not very good at planning.

Throughout the seven years of knowing each other, my wife and I have had many serious discussions about financial planning.  Here is my understanding garnered from those discussions:

1.  The RW (and RM) mentality is that money should be spent today because it will be buy less tomorrow.  While inflation influences this mindset, the main reason stems from severe devaluations in currency.  She has seen her grandmother lose most of her savings in one day.  In the Soviet days, Russians could not buy dollars to hedge against devaluations and inflation.

2.  Retirement?  What is retirement?  A man should keep working as long as he can breathe.  Men die early in life while still at a working age.  The only people who retire are pensioners who barely survive with their pitifully small pension from the government.

[Gator]

Another related piece of advice, never buy "cheap."

It is difficult to explain value shopping because the cheapest is assumed to be worthless junk.  And in Russia it usually is (I recall buying less expensive batteries for my camera and got a total of three flashes).

[Misha]

Frugal and economical are synonyms.

Yes, but жадный and экономный are not. The first has negative connotations (stingy, cheap) the second does not (economical).

[Misha]

Another related piece of advice, never buy "cheap."

I agree, but the goal is to buy quality at a cheaper price.

[Lily]

2.  Retirement?  What is retirement?  A man should keep working as long as he can breathe. 

Same applies to women as well, unless she takes care of children.

That's why I always thought that occupation is a major determinant of personality. Chosing a profession, we chose our lifestyles. If you make your hobby your profession, you will not have to work in your life at all!