Ready to Move to Ukraine

[Taisiya]

Hello, Thompson. Good to know you're considering moving to Ukraine. I love my country, but I have no idea why everyone who ever comes to Odessa says it's the most expensive city they've ever been to? 250k US is quite a solid sum of money, but when it comes to moving and thinking of getting your bills paid, don't you think it's a bit weird? I mean you could get better living in the US. Ukraine salary rate is too small compared to the entire Europe and the US. Except for real estate investment, this would be a good idea and earn you good living.

[SANDRO43]

thats what 1 guy was thinking agreeing to give a little money monthly to an old old lady in exchange for her apartment upon her death. He ended up paying triple the price of the apartment and she outlived him

Unlucky sod.

I don't know about other countries, but here we have a type of real-estate contract called nuda proprietà ('naked property'): one buys a person's property - usually for about half the current market price - and allows the seller to remain in it until his/her death, i.e. ownership but not possession, yet. My aunt used it when her money was running out, and the buyer got the apartment 4-5 years later - not a bad investment, in this case.

[Misha]

I don't know about other countries, but here we have a type of real-estate contract called nuda proprietà ('naked property'): one buys a person's property - usually for about half the current market price - and allows the seller to remain in it until his/her death, i.e. ownership but not possession, yet.

In North America, you have reverse mortgages. From what I gather, you get a loan that is paid back when the owner or owners die or if they sell the house. It allows them to get money, while still living in their house and not having to pay back the loan.

[ECOCKS]

A reverse mortgage is when the owner agrees to sell the house at a fixed price and receive the payments for a set period of time. When the last payment is made, the house reverts to the purchaser OR if the owner dies before the payment schedule is finished, the balance is paid into the owner's estate. It is occasionally done but is complex due to the NPV calculations of the payment stream and the balance payment formula.

[BillyB]

I do thank God I am not a police officer any more. I had a lot of fun for 12 yrs doing it and the best part was helping people. I have a lot of respect for all officers and I always make their job pleasant when they ever talk to me.
Our President did jump the gun before he had the facts.

Agreed, our President should have been smart enough not to open his mouth so soon on that one. He talks about racism and chooses a black man's side before getting all the facts. It would be no different than if Bush chose a white man's side before getting all the facts.

It's tough for you cops out there. You patrol the bad neighborhoods to keep the streets safe and of course the arrests of certain minorities go up and they accuse you of racial profiling. Good law abiding minorities complain about the crime rate in their neighborhood and wonder why you cops aren't patrolling their streets enough to clean up the crime and accuse you of being racists by avoiding them. You can't win.

Like you, I too talk to cops politely and with respect. They are people too. Out of 8 times I got pulled over for speeding, I got only 4 tickets.

[SANDRO43]

Here it's irrelevant how the buyer gets money for the purchase - the deed of sale is signed before a notary public contigent on the buyer producing the stipulated amount - a cashier's cheque for the full amount, in my aunt's case. Maybe paying by instalments is also possible, but I've run out of pennyless house-owning aunts, so I cannot verify that .

[ECOCKS]

Hey Thompson, what did you decide to do? Sell the property? Move there? Relo from the states?

[thompsongunner06]

I was kidding about "the" move! We do want to sell the properties still. I have wayyyyy to many guns and I will never be without a firearm.

[docetae]

I was kidding about "the" move! We do want to sell the properties still. I have wayyyyy to many guns and I will never be without a firearm.

You don't like AK47 ?

[ECOCKS]

I was kidding about "the" move! We do want to sell the properties still. I have wayyyyy to many guns and I will never be without a firearm.

Ah, no problem.

I know how you feel.

You can have your little BB guns of course, but that doesn't really cut it if you're used to real guns.

Even the AK's and Mak's over there are in pretty rough shape compared to what we can find. 

You ever find a decent RE agent?

[krimster]

Sounds to me the real reason you're not going to Ukraine was that you realized that Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck aren't available on the local Komsomol TV station.

Regarding your collectión.  You must measure the true cost of your possessions, else it is they which will possess you, losing you your autonomy and freedom.

Ergo, I recommend skill with a blade, simple to acquire, simple to carry, simple to learn thrust and parry.  Which weapon is more useful?  The one you habitually carry with you, as familiar as your own hand, or the one you left at home?

After I was in Ukraine, I procured a folding Buck knife which had been converted into an "automatic" with the addition of a spring and a release button.  Never left home without it.

Ecocks - LOL  your "You ever find a decent RE agent?"  Is like asking "You ever find a virginal prostitute?"  In Ukraine, really????

Also, you should note, that it's not at all difficult to ILLEGALLY acquire weapons in Ukraine, nor is it even all that difficult to legally do so, just a cumbersome amount of paperwork, and firearms must always be stored in a safe  when not in use.  However, in Ukraine, you DO NOT have the legal right to use a firearm in self-defense.  A ham-burglar enters your home, you shoot him, you are charged with a felony offense.  In this sense Ukraine's laws are closer to Britain's.

Disappointed you're not moving...

[thompsongunner06]

Hey Krim,,,,I carry a knife most every day,,never know when I have to cut a seat belt or a hot pizza! I have an AK-47(semi),also a SKS and Moisen Negant rifle in my collection. Still no word on an agent.  Will try to get up with you when we go visit!

[Zhena]

I wouldnt move to Ukraine.  If you want to see,how it will work,go for a year and dont sell your property here-rent it or something.  I almost sure that you wont find a job there and a pharmacist earns ok(if will work for a pharm company and advertise the new medicines to the doctors. Is a 1000$ a month enough for two? Depends on you,but you wont have a luxury life.Odessa is expensive. You can spend your savings there easy in some years,especially if you ll build the house....Plus other details of ukrainian life which you are not used to.
If you want to move somewhere,there are other cheap and warm countries.

[dobradavid]

With all the racial and political B/S going on here in the US I told my wife lets sell the house and stuff and move to Ukraine. If we did we would take about $250,000 or more with us,,her mom has a house we can live in until we can get a nice hose built on her 20+ acres. She is a Pharmacist and I can do something there. We are in our late 40's so   we could live pretty nice there. Get a little car for her and a M/C with side car for me along with some bikes. She has a stream there we got fish and crawfish from last time and we made a big pot of "Gumbo" on an open fire by the stream. I really loved the area and people.

Are you planning to TAKE your $250,000 to Ukraine? 

[dobradavid]

Yeah, but there at least you can ignore it more easily.

Unless YOU become the target - as a "rich" foreigner.

[dobradavid]

Before you move to Ukraine, you need to practice for the event, preparation is key to any endeavor, preparation H is the best.

1. Find a really horrible garbage dump filled with rotting refuse.
2. Buy the cheapest imported Chinese concrete you can find
3. Locate a group of illiterate illegal immigrants
4. Use them to build the most horrible, unsafe, ugly apartment that you can
5. Go to the local prison
6. Advertise free housing to this apartment to all the prisoners who are being released
7. Now your're ready to move in.  Buy cheap fiberboard furniture and you're set
8. Randomly switch off water, gas, electricity for extended periods
8. Last step, install steel bars and doors


What you will end up with is something "close" to life in Ukraine.  Now get Dish Network and only listen to the Russian Channel owned by the Russian Government which constantly tells you about how stupid Americans are and how really great Russians are.

Then cancel your health insurance and refuse to get any, pretend that there are no competent doctors or clinics nearby

Don't worry at all about impending socialism in America, you will live it first hand every day in Ukraine, see you're already dealing with the future, as a bonus, you'll get to feel what being an object of prejudice and discrimination is like, because you're an American in Ukraine, and the Russian TV is telling everyone that Americans are pridorki, so you must be one to.

Don't forget that if you decide to leave that legally your money has to stay.

Don't get upset if people are rude to you in Ukraine, rudeness is the new black

As a side bonus you'll soon become well acquainted with con artists and scams of every kind, maybe you can use this firsthand knowledge to write a book about it, ka-ching!

Are you still here?  Why haven't you left yet?

Nicely put. 

[dobradavid]

Funny, most Kyiv and Odessa expats I know live in normal conditions. That includes a range of folks from Peace Corps volunteers and adventuresome English teachers on up to those few who are Bank Executives and Country Managers of multinationals.

PM if you want to chat with real folks who live there. I'm confident enough concerning Kyiv and will direct you to some who live in smaller cities if you want real information about living as opposed to being a tourist.

???? if you visit the "Dave's ESL Cafe" www.eslcafe.com you will quickly get a different picture from ESL people living in Ukraine. Anyone living near Kreschatik is NOT living normally - great for tourist tho.

[ECOCKS]

???? if you visit the "Dave's ESL Cafe" www.eslcafe.com you will quickly get a different picture from ESL people living in Ukraine. Anyone living near Kreschatik is NOT living normally - great for tourist tho.

Actually David, if you visit Dave's you will find that I am one of the main ones who has posted info on Ukraine.

As for the people I know living in center, I remain more than willing to put people in touch with those who really live there on a day-to-day basis.

[dobradavid]

Actually David, if you visit Dave's you will find that I am one of the main ones who has posted info on Ukraine.

As for the people I know living in center, I remain more than willing to put people in touch with those who really live there on a day-to-day basis.

Thank you for the offer - am I correct that that does not include ESL teachers - unless they are someone's spouse?

[Nat]

Before you move to Ukraine, you need to practice for the event, preparation is key to any endeavor, preparation H is the best.

1. Find a really horrible garbage dump filled with rotting refuse.
2. Buy the cheapest imported Chinese concrete you can find
3. Locate a group of illiterate illegal immigrants
4. Use them to build the most horrible, unsafe, ugly apartment that you can
5. Go to the local prison
6. Advertise free housing to this apartment to all the prisoners who are being released
7. Now your're ready to move in.  Buy cheap fiberboard furniture and you're set
8. Randomly switch off water, gas, electricity for extended periods
8. Last step, install steel bars and doors

[...]

I won't give any advice to the topic starter, because it's a very delicate question and I think it's better to listen to Americans in this case, but I'd just like to ask krimster: excuse me, what part of Ukraine did you visit exactly? Region and city? And when was it?

[ECOCKS]

Thank you for the offer - am I correct that that does not include ESL teachers - unless they are someone's spouse?

That would not be correct.

I lived a half block from the US Embassy. Several ESL teachers live in the Podil, University and Republikanski areas. These tended to be those who had experience and knew how to make money on ESL but it's hardly an oddity. The ones who were starting out or never quite figured out how to build their business often ended up over on the Left Bank or waaaay out in the sticks but several chose to live out there for other reasons (larger, nicer places or they made arrangements for roomies in certain areas).

The most successful ESL teacher I know owns a flat on Kreshatyk about 70 meters from Tolstogo. I will grant that he got that after becoming a banker but his ESL led directly to that position.

[krimster]

Nat,
   I lived in Sevastopol from 2004-2007, however conditions I described can be found anywhere in Ukraine as you probably know, be happy to provide pictures of "elitny" apartments in Ukraine, that would by law be required to be torn down in the USA, due to their being by legal definition "unfit for human habitation".

[Son of Clyde]

Each visit I made I always felt a bit uneasy.
I think what Krimster posted may be an extreme but not so far off.
It is sort of like feeling totally out of control.
If you can speak some Russian you may be able to settle in much easier. Don't expect the locals to speak much English.
Some European countries teach English as a second language but not the FSU.
You can pretty much kiss your freedom goodbye.
I have met some very decent people in Ukraine but not everyone you meet is going to be decent to an American. The poverty is what really got to me. You give some change to one person then you realize there are hundreds of people begging on the streets. Sometimes entire families. You can't deny there is much beauty in the country but when you get below the surface you see there is a struggle to survive.
I wouldn't say all the scam artists are evil, a certain amount is survival. The secret is to find people you can trust. And the steel doors and 1925 style elevators in the apartments are very creepy. The steel doors are there for a reason. And if you suffer from claustrophobia it might be better to walk up the 5 flights of stairs than to take the tiny elevator that feels like the cables may snap at any time. I did enjoy myself in Ukraine but I went prepared for anything. Even a shakedown by the customs officer who was thinking I was taking too much money back to the states.

[Nat]

   I lived in Sevastopol from 2004-2007, however conditions I described can be found anywhere in Ukraine as you probably know,

Obviously you know that better than me Sevastopol is far away from my region and I've never been to it, only Crimean cities which are considered to be resorts, and yes, I can't disagree with you about the condition of a lot of apartment buildings there.

Some European countries teach English as a second language but not the FSU.

You will be surprised, but schools do teach English as a second language. And so do universities But - yes, you're right, it's difficult to find somebody who speaks fluent English, especially among older people. The matter is that Ukraine has always been teaching English with the help of soviet exercise books. Now they replace them with Ukrainian ones, they're a little bit better, but still they don't have conversational English in them. High school children (15-16) speak English a bit better, because they have access to the Internet and chat there with their western friends

[Son of Clyde]

You are correct Nat.
My stepson spoke a little English when I first met him in 2004.
He was 13 at the time and he tried his best, but his English was limited. Pavel (my guide on that trip) was very helpful with translating for us.
With the internet chat rooms, some video games, Western television and music the young people are bound to learn a little English. I was very proud of my wife because she spent countless hours studying English when she arrived. Although her accent is still very thick she can understand more English than she gives herself credit for.