What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Maxx2]

As with any bubble, it will burst.  The only variable is when.

With the dollar instead of it being a soap bubble perhaps it's a balloon? Maybe the air will dribble out slowly over time? That is everything and almost everyone gets poorer and poorer? I have seen this happening with people around me and with businesses I deal with. 

[Gator]

Remember that the EUR was worth less than a dollar when it came into play. Went to 1.20 then 1.30 and now it hangs around the 1.40 level.  Considering the size of the economies are roughly equal why is that?

Interest rates, inflation, debt, fiscal deficits, and trade balances.

[fathertime]

They used to until a debt based monetary system was introduced a 101 years ago. It's been wars, debt and inflation ever since. However it is not that simple is it? That is bringing about a gold standard to back the dollar and other currencies. Keynesian economic policy would have to be shelved. It would be he who has the gold rules. United States claims it has most of the worlds gold reserves but they will not allow any outside agency to audit it. The German government put into a request back in 2012 to audit their gold held by the Fed but were refused. Why? Meanwhile the Chinese and Russian governments buy gold to add to their reserves. Why? What do their economists know that we here in America don't? Are they being silly or what? Why did Germany request 10% of it's gold holdings of 3500 tons held by the Fed be returned after their audit request was refused? Why did the Fed say it would take them 10 years?  Why has only 5 tons of gold been returned to Germany in the last year and a half? What happened to Qaudaffi's 144 tons of gold? 


Being in the gold business for the past 34 years I keep up on gold news.

I tend to think our economy will be ok for quite a while, if we don't go aggravating the world by being a pushy busybody in other nation's affairs....like we have been.  From my perspective, if a small coalition of key countries decided to get off the dollar, who knows what could happen...at least from my perspective Obama has struck close to the right chord in Ukraine to this point! 


Fathertime!   


Fathertime! 

[Muzh]

You and your viewpoint are irrelevant from my perspective.   You are only semi-literate" , because if you read what I wrote you would see that I wrote: "I read that Russia was pulling out it's troops"...all that is required is that I would have read it... I bet the moment you walked out that door for the last time, the fellow employees started with the high fives and partying like it was 1999... and disinfecting that office of yours...

Fathertime!   

Look who's talking about semi literate. Must be the massive head.


Even your fantasies are wrong. Heh, heh, heh


I'd tell you the reality but rather leave you semi literate. That is more a propos to your caricature. BTW, the troops are still there but their balls are shrinking the moment they saw the steelworkers join the fray. Heh, heh, heh


Try not to be so angry. It is the internet after all. Heh, heh, heh


Slava Ukrainy

[Muzh]

Joe Biden's son joins the Board of Directors in Ukrainian gas company.  The best argument (though unarticulated) the Putinistas have against Euromaidan is that they would be trading one set of Oligarchs for another. 

What say you?

Ooo, ooo, ooo


Did I told you I tripled my money in just three days? Thanks to Uncle Joe (and not Stalin) Heh, heh, heh

[Muzh]

The US has a long term strategy of keeping the value of the USD low in order to try and not only fight the financial crisis but to also try and combat trade deficit levels, almost impossible considering that the US economy is driven by services and not exports as is the case with larger EU economies such as Germany.  This 'bubble' may one day burst if for some reason the USD is forced to show it's true worth.

A very serious question: Who or what is going to force that?


I know it is not going to be God because he can't.

[GQBlues]

A very serious question: Who or what is going to force that?

I know it is not going to be God because he can't.

LOL. Must've been on vacation, Muzh?

This latest subject reminded me of Will Durant's quote.

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. The essential cause of Rome’s decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars.

We are witnessing this in Ukraine today. We are witnessing this in our home country, too. Slowly but surely.

[The Natural]

Quote from: W. Durant

A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within. The essential cause of Rome’s decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars.



We are witnessing this in Ukraine today. We are witnessing this in our home country, too. Slowly but surely.

And from Bill Bonner:

"A child born in America in 1900 came into the world naked and free of debt. Today, he pops into the world and is immediately swaddled in chains of debts. All his life he will have to pay them – debts from bonuses paid to government employees in 1986… from bombs dropped in 2003… from boondoggles built in 1995… checks written in 1974… promises made to old people in 2002… the expenses of hurricanes in 2005… and so on. The poor child will have to drag around with him the entire pathetic history of America’s financial decline.

‘Stay the course,’ said Bernanke in 2005. ‘We cannot stop now,’ added Bush. “There is more work to be done,” chimes Obama.

“Damned b**tards,” the next generation is likely to grumble."

[stilllooking]

A very serious question: Who or what is going to force that?


I know it is not going to be God because he can't.

If it happens it will be the Americans themselves that make it happen.

Noblese oblige is in my opinion very much applicable to the US. There are however some very powerful forces in the US who do not feel this applies to them.

[fathertime]

Look who's talking about semi literate. Must be the massive head.


Even your fantasies are wrong. Heh, heh, heh


I'd tell you the reality but rather leave you semi literate. That is more a propos to your caricature. BTW, the troops are still there but their balls are shrinking the moment they saw the steelworkers join the fray. Heh, heh, heh


Try not to be so angry. It is the internet after all. Heh, heh, heh


Slava Ukrainy

judging by the tenor of your posts it appears that you are upset again...


I was saying right along that there would be no Russian invasion of mainland E. Ukraine because it would create too many hassles for Russia...it twas YOU who not only disagreed, but also attempted to silence those that had a differing opinion...of course you FAILED to do so.   To this point you have been wrong about Crimea and wrong about E. Ukraine...I'd like to to see your next prediction so I can wager the other way, it seems like almost a sure thing...0/2 so far! 



Fat-headed Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

There is no invasion?  Then who is Colonel Firkin and why is he on YouTube whining that Eastern Ukrainians are joining his ranks.  Why are all his men carrying AK-100s?  Why are all his journalists carrying MANPADS?

I hate agreeing with mad Puerto Rican but he has you nailed to the bar.  Have fun praising Obama while your cohorta denounce him.

[fathertime]

There is no invasion?  Then who is Colonel Firkin and why is he on YouTube whining that Eastern Ukrainians are joining his ranks.  Why are all his men carrying AK-100s?  Why are all his journalists carrying MANPADS?

I hate agreeing with mad Puerto Rican but he has you nailed to the bar.  Have fun praising Obama while your cohorta denounce him.

Ukraine is a nation of 40plus million people.   IF Russia is able to invade by sending in a few rabble rousers (assuming they did) then they must be something special!   It appears to me that the Ukrainians are in a confrontation with other Ukrainians mostly.  There is no Russian tanks, no planes, no bombs, no invasion of the mainland…there are troops taking a nap at the border though….
 
I find it amusing to see how difficult it is for people to admit they were mistaken rather than be a slave and do contortions to a position that is no longer viable.  Heck, had I been mistaken, I would have been ok with saying so…but as it turns out to this point it hasn’t played out that way.  It is setting up about the way I thought it would...thankfully we (the USA) have signaled that we aren’t going to do much and so long as that is the case, things have a good chance of working out fine.     


Fathertime! 

[Anotherkiwi]

...things have a good chance of working out fine.     


Fathertime!

Maybe...but try telling that to the families of those people (from both sides) who have been kidnapped/arrested, tortured and/or killed over the last few months.  While I can understand that you don't want the USA to get involved at all (and I appreciate why), I can't understand why you don't seem to have the slightest empathy/sympathy towards those who have actually been caught up in this conflict.
 
You may not be able to do anything about it (and I don't expect you to), but your posts indicate that you simply don't care in the slightest.  Turn this situation around slightly - would your attitude be different if it were your wife's country that was having these sorts of problems with one of its neighbours?  If your attitude would change in that case, try sparing a thought or two for those members on here who DO have family in the affected area.

[fathertime]

Maybe...but try telling that to the families of those people (from both sides) who have been kidnapped/arrested, tortured and/or killed over the last few months.  While I can understand that you don't want the USA to get involved at all (and I appreciate why), I can't understand why you don't seem to have the slightest empathy/sympathy towards those who have actually been caught up in this conflict.
 
You may not be able to do anything about it (and I don't expect you to), but your posts indicate that you simply don't care in the slightest.  Turn this situation around slightly - would your attitude be different if it were your wife's country that was having these sorts of problems with one of its neighbours?  If your attitude would change in that case, try sparing a thought or two for those members on here who DO have family in the affected area.

Well I could have used a different set of words there regarding how things are working out as people have been killed on both sides….so for their families it will not ever work out fine…these events in history just about always produce blood
Regarding sympathy/empathy…I believe the best that can be done is to make the push for the right decisions to minimize unnecessary deaths…me giving lip service about how terrible things are is as useful as a hatful of busted assholes…I disagree with you though, I’ve spared plenty of thoughts to others and have been willing to listen.  In this case have responded to a post where I was specifically  mentioned. 
Fathertime!   

[LiveFromUkraine]

Maybe...but try telling that to the families of those people (from both sides) who have been kidnapped/arrested, tortured and/or killed over the last few months.  While I can understand that you don't want the USA to get involved at all (and I appreciate why), I can't understand why you don't seem to have the slightest empathy/sympathy towards those who have actually been caught up in this conflict.
 
You may not be able to do anything about it (and I don't expect you to), but your posts indicate that you simply don't care in the slightest.  Turn this situation around slightly - would your attitude be different if it were your wife's country that was having these sorts of problems with one of its neighbours?  If your attitude would change in that case, try sparing a thought or two for those members on here who DO have family in the affected area.

I have lived there which most here cannot say the same. 


With that said, if you can't discuss something without getting emotional then you shouldn't be discussing it at all.   I think some of you guys need to realize people don't need to make you feel all warm and fuzzy by posting how you think they should be posting.


I think that is why some of the guys are having a problem with FT's posts.  While things are not fine, I find it pretty easy to understand what FT means by it.  Things could be a lot worst. 


The killer, for me, is many of you guys were clapping hands when the shit hit the fan in Kiev talking about how good it was to throw the bum out.  What happened afterwards where the repercussions of Kiev that many here applauded. 


Time for many here to look in the mirror.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The concept of a strong currency is misleading.  Remember that the EUR was worth less than a dollar when it came into play. Went to 1.20 then 1.30 and now it hangs around the 1.40 level.  Considering the size of the economies are roughly equal why is that?  Which is truly 'stronger'?

The US has a long term strategy of keeping the value of the USD low in order to try and not only fight the financial crisis but to also try and combat trade deficit levels, almost impossible considering that the US economy is driven by services and not exports as is the case with larger EU economies such as Germany.  This 'bubble' may one day burst if for some reason the USD is forced to show it's true worth.

I believe it's true worth is within parity or slightly less than EUR, somewhere within the 1 to 1.2 level.

China is probably the largest factor involved, from diversifying their currency holdings, mostly in the direction of EUR instead of USD.

As with any bubble, it will burst.  The only variable is when.

I remember first working over in Australia and the exchange was 1 AUD to .55 US. I was pretty happy because I was still paid in US dollars at the time.


 Over the next couple of years it raised to 1 AUD to .70 US.


 Now it's like 1 AUD to .92 US.  I think the AUD even surpassed the US dollar for some time. 

[lordtiberius]

I have lived there which most here cannot say the same. 


With that said, if you can't discuss something without getting emotional then you shouldn't be discussing it at all.   I think some of you guys need to realize people don't need to make you feel all warm and fuzzy by posting how you think they should be posting.


I think that is why some of the guys are having a problem with FT's posts.  While things are not fine, I find it pretty easy to understand what FT means by it.  Things could be a lot worst. 


The killer, for me, is many of you guys were clapping hands when the shit hit the fan in Kiev talking about how good it was to throw the bum out.  What happened afterwards where the repercussions of Kiev that many here applauded. 


Time for many here to look in the mirror.

Start with yourself.

People are suffering and you (& others) go into 'who gives a shit' mode and have the temerity to be shocked at those who oppose your ill wishing.

I suppose for some people the world is a grand place omitting details here, casting aspersions there and blind eyes everywhere and marveling at the stupidity of those who patiently and politely disagree.  May you reap what you sow, gentlemen . . .

[LiveFromUkraine]

Start with yourself.

People are suffering and you (& others) go into 'who gives a shit' mode and have the temerity to be shocked at those who oppose your ill wishing.

I suppose for some people the world is a grand place omitting details here, casting aspersions there and blind eyes everywhere and marveling at the stupidity of those who patiently and politely disagree.  May you reap what you sow, gentlemen . . .

I can definitely see why you avoid mirrors.  You are all over this board calling people names so don't think for a minute you are patient and polite.  You have got to be the most disturbed individual I have ever seen on these boards.  You got some mental issues, son, and shouldn't even contemplate bringing a woman from a different culture into your mess.

[fathertime]

d marveling at the stupidity of those who patiently and politely disagree.  May you reap what you sow, gentlemen . . .

If you actually believe that this is how you have behaved, then you are mistaken. 


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

Follow your own advice. 

FT, how many armies use the AK 100?  Which news agency carries MANPADS with them?

[fathertime]

Follow your own advice. 

FT, how many armies use the AK 100?  Which news agency carries MANPADS with them?

I don't see an invasion...the major news organizations are not reporting there is a Russian invasion of the mainland.     


Fathertime! 

[southernX]

fwiw

im very happy to say it looks like the possibility of a full scale russain invasion of ukraine has started to ebb ,

i say full scale as their has already been russian backed troops and affiliated personel in crimea AS AN INVASION  and also in s/east ukraine imho

however the last few days people power may have  swayed a loyalty shift away from the pro russians
they seem to be losing support and direction ,
hopefully it isnt a false sense of calm before sundays election

[BillyB]

With the dollar instead of it being a soap bubble perhaps it's a balloon? Maybe the air will dribble out slowly over time?

There are always countries trying to weaken the significance of the dollar and weaken America. The EU using the Euro and Russia and China recently in the link below. Their bond is getting stronger. Take care of what you have(America) because once it's lost, it's hard to get back.


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/20/russia-china-bankdeal.html

[LiveFromUkraine]

There are always countries trying to weaken the significance of the dollar and weaken America. The EU using the Euro and Russia and China recently in the link below. Their bond is getting stronger. Take care of what you have(America) because once it's lost, it's hard to get back.


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/20/russia-china-bankdeal.html

As a US citizen, I like the idea of America losing some of it's influence.  Things like FATCA has been terrible.  I would welcome countries telling the US to screw off when they try and bully them into working for the IRS. 

[fathertime]

There are always countries trying to weaken the significance of the dollar and weaken America. The EU using the Euro and Russia and China recently in the link below. Their bond is getting stronger. Take care of what you have(America) because once it's lost, it's hard to get back.


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/20/russia-china-bankdeal.html

Hey Billy!


Thanks for linking that article....Although it is a small step it is exactly this is the type of result I was hoping NOT to see regarding the USA and our worldwide interference, Nuland/Ukraine being the latest...we have had it good here for a good long while by borrowing money, but it seems clear to me that much of the world is tiring of us trying to throw our weight around...when large nations like China and Russia start taking steps like this, we should have concern, not panic..


Fathertime!