What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[alex330]

What made the news here yesterday is that Chechen fighters are making their way to Ukraine.

There have been Chechens, Russians and Transnistrians in Ukraine for some time now. Nice guys to come help their fellow brothers.

http://inforesist.org/43-corpses-of-kadyrovits-have-been-buried-in-chechnya-already-32-people-are-missing-photo-18/?lang=en

http://news.vice.com/article/yes-there-are-chechen-fighters-in-ukraine-and-nobody-knows-who-sent-them-there

[lordtiberius]

They are much, much more than helicopter carriers. A helicopter carrier  is a flat deck with a hangar.

These things can also carry up to 70 vehicles or  450 troops. They also have a flood-able well deck. Ships of a previous generation (Intrepid and Fearless) were key to the British being able to re-take the Falklands.

Your response is obtuse.  Its still a ship that carries aircraft.  Quibble on that.

[lordtiberius]

There have been Chechens, Russians and Transnistrians in Ukraine for some time now. Nice guys to come help their fellow brothers.

http://inforesist.org/43-corpses-of-kadyrovits-have-been-buried-in-chechnya-already-32-people-are-missing-photo-18/?lang=en

http://news.vice.com/article/yes-there-are-chechen-fighters-in-ukraine-and-nobody-knows-who-sent-them-there

Don't you dare accuse the Russian President of such malfeasance!!!!

[lordtiberius]

I got to giggle at your angry name-calling, as I know it shows your frustration and since your goal is to stifle other points of view you should be frustrated, as you will fail!     It appears that you that you have shown no honor or discipline (probably throughout your life) and your stability is questionable.  You do not represent the American point of view, you represent a very small minority, and you will not be permitted to dictate unfettered.


   As for me, I am content enough to be able to speak my piece and let others give the thoughts some consideration and then draw their own conclusions...even if they are different than the ones I've drawn.   
Fathertime!

This from a man who doesn't see it when others point out the clay feces in his argument.  Tell us the win win where one nation gets to lord over another and they have no rights or sovereignty.  Tell us what you did to earn your freedom and safety but not the Ukrainians.  Tell us about the compassion you have for those suffering at the hands of your botox master . . . 

[alex330]

Don't you dare accuse the Russian President of such malfeasance!!!!

Of course he had nothing to do with it. Paid locals and seasoned troops from all over came to help their fellow brother. Just rolled right through Russia in convoys with weapons. Just coincidence the city in which most of the action is occurring happens to be a strategic location.

The little green men in Crimea were probably Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana, so private security forces. Nothing to do with Putin...

[lordtiberius]

MANPADS that shoot choppers out of the sky win-win have nothing to do with King Botox

[fathertime]

This from a man who doesn't see it when others point out the clay feces in his argument.  Tell us the win win where one nation gets to lord over another and they have no rights or sovereignty.  Tell us what you did to earn your freedom and safety but not the Ukrainians.  Tell us about the compassion you have for those suffering at the hands of your botox master . . .

From my perspective you are the one making poor arguments.  I don’t believe the one-sided narrative you have attempted to present.  From the reading/video’s I’ve seen I’ve concluded that the people of Ukraine are a large part of the uprising aggressively and passively.  I believe that the approach you wanted to take was ridiculous, and would have led to many more deaths and a wider war, with other people’s children at risk.  It appears many foreigners and Ukraine countrymen feel strong enough about the issue to fight for their respective sides. The Europeans obviously don’t feel as strong about the issue and neither do the general populace of the USA. The USA should not be in the business of picking winners from across the globe…we have done quite a bit of that lately and it is backfiring.   

In addition to all of this, we have no leg to stand on regardless.  We are arming rebels in faraway locations that we would like to...If Russia turns a blind eye, I don't see our nation as the one that has the credibility to call them out...that is probably one of the many reasons Obama is standing down and not placing meaningful repercussions on Russia.  I believe it to be the right call for the USA.

Fathertime! 

[JayH]

I am still waiting to see how you can explain who the bodies are being sent back to Russia are?

[fathertime]

I am still waiting to see how you can explain who the bodies are being sent back to Russia are?

There is nothing to explain....I would assume they are Russians or why would they be sent to Russia?....now where is your indisputable proof that they are part of an invasion force, and not extremists, or men representing part of their family in the region?  I believe if Russia wanted to invade they could have done it simply and swiftly, and not monkeyed around with a ragtag group of 50 year old men that would be outnumbered and outgunned by the Ukrainian army. 


Fathertime! 

[alex330]

monkeyed around with a ragtag group of 50 year old men that would be outnumbered and outgunned by the Ukrainian army. 

The trucks full of soldiers and bodies don't look like 50 year old men to me. The UA army is untrained and Chechens are some of the the most brutal and feared fighters.

[lordtiberius]

From my perspective you are the one making poor arguments.  I don’t believe the one-sided narrative you have attempted to present.  From the reading/video’s I’ve seen I’ve concluded that the people of Ukraine are a large part of the uprising aggressively and passively.  I believe that the approach you wanted to take was ridiculous, and would have led to many more deaths and a wider war, with other people’s children at risk.  It appears many foreigners and Ukraine countrymen feel strong enough about the issue to fight for their respective sides. The Europeans obviously don’t feel as strong about the issue and neither do the general populace of the USA. The USA should not be in the business of picking winners from across the globe…we have done quite a bit of that lately and it is backfiring.   

In addition to all of this, we have no leg to stand on regardless.  We are arming rebels in faraway locations that we would like to...If Russia turns a blind eye, I don't see our nation as the one that has the credibility to call them out...that is probably one of the many reasons Obama is standing down and not placing meaningful repercussions on Russia.  I believe it to be the right call for the USA.

Fathebook,e! 

Another straw man argument from a closeted Putin lover.  You don't know a damn thing about me or my views of Ukraine.  I don't believe that CC3 (who doesn't like me BTW) should be beaten up for his nationality.  You do.  Indefensible in my book, but you dear reader be the judge

[lordtiberius]

The trucks full of soldiers and bodies don't look like 50 year old men to me. The UA army is untrained and Chechens are some of the the most brutal and feared fighters.

Someone tell captain thin skins that Chechens can't make war without Putler's permission?

[fathertime]

Another straw man argument from a closeted Putin lover.  You don't know a damn thing about me or my views of Ukraine.  I don't believe that CC3 (who doesn't like me BTW) should be beaten up for his nationality.  You do.  Indefensible in my book, but you dear reader be the judge

 
1.        If posters don’t know your views of Ukraine then you are either lying or addled through your posts as you have probably made several hundred posts on the subject. 
2.       I have made MY views clear and don’t pretend to have hidden views on the subject…like you claim.
3.       Putin lover…just a silly distraction adding no value to whatever you are attempting to say.
4.       Cc3…I never said he should be beat up or anything of the sort…that is you trying to backdoor brownnose….very transparent. 
5.       Your post didn’t say anything of importance…just untruths *Putin lover, cc3 beat up*

Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

Who is obsessed now win win?

[fathertime]

Who is obsessed now win win?

I'd say YOU are...the reason being...you care so much about my opinion that you make efforts to drown it out *unsuccessfully* and I really don't care what you think, or care to change your opinion!   


Fathertime!   

[deccie]

Your response is obtuse.  Its still a ship that carries aircraft.  Quibble on that.

Battleships used to carry aircraft. Call them an aircraft carrier would you?

[BC]

I'd say YOU are...the reason being...you care so much about my opinion that you make efforts to drown it out *unsuccessfully* and I really don't care what you think, or care to change your opinion!   


Fathertime!

FT, don't wast time watching his 'in the car alone with nothing else to do rants' on youtube..  I tried a couple, could only fast forward..  what a douche bucket that runneth over..  crap.. now he has me calling names..

Just ignore him.

[lordtiberius]

I'd say YOU are...the reason being...you care so much about my opinion that you make efforts to drown it out *unsuccessfully* and I really don't care what you think, or care to change your opinion!   


Fathertime!

HI CC3!

I am sorry your girlfriend lives in a free fire zone against the will of the people.  But maybe this is a win win.  Putin has pulled back and won't invade right now.  So go ahead and move just don't speak English and if you are flying air raft beware of MANPADS.  They have been known to pop up out of no where.


Father Whine!

[JayH]

While the Ukrainian separatism in the Donbas is mostly artificial, aspirations to independence of regions in Russia is under a very real foundation. Moscow is the colonial ruler, which collects from its colonies regions every penny funds, returning back only a small fraction. Hence the myth of Moscow, feeding the Caucasus. In Dagestan, joking, "Enough to feed us, give drink already!" All a lot of money from this republic will cater to the federal treasury, and returns back a tiny part, precisely to support pants. Potentially rich region vegetate on handouts Kremlin, while could not develop worse Emirates or Saudi Arabia. But all who dare to hint at the republic of independence from Russia, will be immediately stripped Moscow riot police.




Putin & Russia have more problems than they realise.

[deccie]

While the Ukrainian separatism in the Donbas is mostly artificial, aspirations to independence of regions in Russia is under a very real foundation. Moscow is the colonial ruler, which collects from its colonies regions every penny funds, returning back only a small fraction. Hence the myth of Moscow, feeding the Caucasus. In Dagestan, joking, "Enough to feed us, give drink already!" All a lot of money from this republic will cater to the federal treasury, and returns back a tiny part, precisely to support pants. Potentially rich region vegetate on handouts Kremlin, while could not develop worse Emirates or Saudi Arabia. But all who dare to hint at the republic of independence from Russia, will be immediately stripped Moscow riot police.

Was not WA complaining of exactly the same thing just recently?  That they were paying far more in tax than they were receiving back?

Emirates is not a great example. Qatar is far more rich per head. Emirates survives on being a trade hub more than anything.

[lordtiberius]

Jay an evidence based approach always fails with the Putin lovers.

[cc3]

Hi CC3,


I believe what you are saying is true.  I believe there are a % of foreigners contributing to the unrest.  I am not convinced that Russia is directly responsible though.  I wouldn't doubt if they allowed people to cross as the Russian position appears to strengthen for the moment if things remain in flux within Ukraine ....it would be Ukraine's responsibility to stop people at border checkpoints that they don't want to enter. Ukraine should make it a priority to secure their border if there is enough loyalty within the army to do so.    I saw today that all the Russian troops on the border have left.


http://screen.yahoo.com/nearly-russian-troops-ukraine-border-174605629.html


Fathertime!

FT, here is what the Georgian defense minister has to say about what forms and agents are involved in a Russian covert insurgency/invasion (and Georgia has much, much more experience than either you or I when it comes to Russian undermining of national sovereignty and independence):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/07/what-to-do-when-russia-invades-your-country.html

[lordtiberius]

Rwd taking pro-putin moderation.  Ft's avatar upside down looks like half my scrotom

[Dewed]

No LT, RWD is doing nothing of the kind   I am

Im not pro or anti Putin   

I am for..   stopping this endless and pointless exchange of insults.   Does anyone really think they can sway someone to their way of thinking by insulting them? It serves absolutely no purpose here what so ever and does not contribute at all it only detracts from the value of this otherwise successful website.

LT is certainly not the only guilty one in that regard not by a long shot... but it's gotta stop fellas.  This site, and the guy that created it deserves better.

[cc3]

Another straw man argument from a closeted Putin lover.  You don't know a damn thing about me or my views of Ukraine.  I don't believe that CC3 (who doesn't like me BTW) should be beaten up for his nationality.  You do.  Indefensible in my book, but you dear reader be the judge

LT, you have slightly wounded me. Although I do feel that you react excessively to oppositional posters, I did not realize that I had given you reason to believe that I carry any animus toward you. I actually am educated, in a slight, diminutive way by the discourse between you and fathertime. You both are intelligent men, but highly captive to your individual belief systems. The repartee between you both is highly instructive to me about human nature. By the way, there is only one person whom I believe about the situation in east UA because she is extremely intelligent, mature, independent of thought, loyal to her nation, and living right in the middle of the crisis in Luhansk. She reports truth. Almost no one else on this forum really knows what is going on...they write with emotion, about what they believe might be occurring. There is zero credibility in most posts on the crisis in Donbas, unless the poster is a resident or his partner is residing there.