The Propaganda War

[Muzh]

So what was Ukraine supposed to do?   At the time, Russia had not sent troops to the region.  Should he have allowed millions who do not support the separatists to have to live under their rule, where extra judicial justice is the norm, and women are told they should not be seen in restaurants?

According to Shadow, this:

[Muzh]

Then explain the above statement.

I believe she was being nice to you using the term "separatists"because you throw a tantrum every time someone refers to the criminals as terrorists. 

[AC]

excerpt
"It was 2002, and I was just out of university, living in Moscow and working at a think tank meant to be promoting Russian-U.S. political ties. A friendly Russian publisher who wanted me to work for him had invited me to what would be my first meeting in Moscow. And that’s how I ended up surrounded by Russian media gurus tucked away on the top floor of Ostankino, the Soviet-era television center that is the battering ram of Kremlin propaganda—home to the studios of the country’s biggest channels. Here, Moscow’s flashiest minds gathered for a weekly brainstorming session to decide what Ostankino would broadcast.

At one end of the table sat one of the country’s most famous political TV presenters. He was small and spoke fast, with a smoky voice: “We all know there will be no real politics,” he said. “But we still have to give our viewers the sense something is happening. They need to be kept entertained.”

 “So what should we play with?” he asked. “Shall we attack oligarchs? Who’s the enemy this week? Politics has got to feel like a movie!

”More than a decade later, that movie is increasingly dark and disturbing. The first thing Russian militias do when they take a town in East Ukraine is seize the television towers and switch them over to Kremlin channels. Soon after, the locals begin to rant about fascists in Kyiv and dark U.S. plots to purge Russian speakers from East Ukraine. It’s not just what they say but how they say it that is so disturbing: irrational spirals of paranoia, theories so elaborate and illogical one can’t possibly argue with them."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/putin-russia-tv-113960.html#ixzz3O1aSC0Ly

[Photo Guy]

Bo, you are right. I remember these quotes from Poroshenko.

Quote<blockquote> "I am ready to make a peace deal with anybody," he said. "I want to bring the peace to my country, not because we are weak, not because we are less patriotic than anybody. We are ready to defend my country because I hate the idea not to use the last opportunity to bring the peace to the region." - Poroshenko, CNN interview, June 28, 2014 </blockquote>Quote<blockquote>"There’s no military solution in Donbas," the Interfax-Ukraine news agency quoted Poroshenko as saying, referring to the war zone in the heavily industrialized basin along the Don River. "If someone wants to play that way, taking up weapons and fighting the Russian military machine -- the strongest on the continent -- we'll see how that ends." - Petro Poroshenko, Interfax, December 29, 2014



</blockquote>

[Photo Guy]

Also, during the last 6 months, the rebel leaders have been quoted numerous times, talking about the establishment of 'New Russia' AND telling reporters that they would like to push their territory as far West as possible. How do you negotiate with people like that? Earlier in the year, the new Ukrainian government offered a great deal of autonomy to the people of Donbas and it was rejected. I can understanding the rejection, in the context of the big Russian lie- that the new government was dangerous and horrible, similar to Nazis. Remember the first big lie from Putin- we must protect Russian-speakers in Crimea?? Putin has a history of big lies. Putin is ruining Russia, and now Russians are also ruing Russia by supporting these lies.

[Photo Guy]

Recent news- is it true that Strelkov/Girkin is advising separatists to give up their fight? I'll find the link...

[JayH]

Recent news- is it true that Strelkov/Girkin is advising separatists to give up their fight? I'll find the link...

Yes-- I posted -- basically the hirelings are being replaced by Russian military-- and a lot easier if the remove themselves rather than resist the Russian military.In places the gangs have been resisting and fighting both Russian and Ukrainian military( & other gangs) for control of areas..
So those  2 ( & others) are still doing the begging for their masters in following orders.
Exactly why the Russians have troops replacing them and moving in could have   a few explanations -I covered already potential reasons.

[lordtiberius]

There are three phases to Soviet subversion: demoralization, collapse and normalization. 

Demoralization is what has gone on in Ukraine for 23 years, what has been going on in America since the 1930's - the communists just want you to make you feel like your country sucks.

Collapse is civil war or invasion - sometimes both.

Normalization is when the Kremlin kills off the useful idiots in order to monopolize power.

is that what we are seeing in Eastern Ukraine?  If so, that means the Blitzkrieg is off.

[JayH]

Really-- how can a more ridiculous  slant can there possibly be !


Expert: Terrorist attack in Paris staged by US intelligence agencies
Terrorists murder of 12 people in the center of Paris is within the interests of the United States, says political analyst Alexei Martynov. On Air LifeNews he said that is not a supporter of conspiracy theories, but I am sure that for those militants who have committed a terrorist act in the blood of the magazine Charlie Hebdo , are the US intelligence services.

http://lifenews.ru/news/148122

[mendeleyev]

Ah, good ole Life News. That will earn them yet another commendation from the Kremlin for "bravery" while reporting from the front. VK is already being filled with photos showing the guys in supposedly different vests, as if that is somehow proof the CIA was involved. As usual, the kooks have no rational explanation as to why their theory would make sense.

I used to have a cautious respect for LifeNews, right up to the day the Malaysian airliner was shot down over Ukraine. LifeNews had reporters embedded with the pro-Russian terrorists (rebels) and in the week prior they had reported on how the rebels had shot down several Ukrainian air force planes leading up to that day. They were very proud of how high their missiles could fly.

Suddenly they broke on live television for a special bulletin, and I watched as an excited reporter broke the news that another Ukrainian plane had been shot out of the sky. He interviewed a local commander who was even more excited in exclaiming that local rebel forces ruled the sky, and how stupid the Ukrainians were to have sent another plane into rebel air space.

About an hour later, as reports began to come in of a civilian airline shot down over Eastern Ukraine, Life News editors sent out an urgent RECALL notice. A media recall notice is when a network pulls a story. It is pulled from their own airwaves, and any affiliates (local stations, other networks, licensed cable outlets, etc) who have permission to use source material is put on notice that permission to use that data/film/scripts/etc has been rescinded. There are legal remedies for affiliates who fail to honour a recall. Recalls don't happen very often--only when a story has materially changed, when the story is wrong, or in the extremely rare event that they have decided to sweep it under the rug.

I don't know who shot down the airliner; I'll leave that for the Dutch committee and they have made a conclusion.

What I do know is that I have zero respect anymore for LIfeNews. They swept everything off their website, but others (myself included) have screenshots before it was scrubbed. At the time LifeNews, and the rebels, thought it was an  Antonov An-26, which is a much shorter plane. If the idiots could not tell the difference between a modified Soviet transport from a modern Boeing jetliner, that told me that the inmates were running the BUK asylum if, as they gleefully claimed at first, the rebels had shot it down.

[Doll]

OMG!
http://ria.ru/world/20150108/1041812617.html#ixzz3OGLmUJVf
 

[Boethius]

If you come from Western Ukraine, that is not an uncommon perception.  Unless of course, Doll, you think the families of the 7,000 victims unearthed from the NKVD headquarters in L'viv, most bearing marks of torture (remember, this was in a little less than 2 years), welcomed the Bolsheviks coming to murder innocents.

[Doll]

If you come from Western Ukraine, that is not an uncommon perception.  Unless of course, Doll, you think the families of the 7,000 victims unearthed from the NKVD headquarters in L'viv, most bearing marks of torture (remember, this was in a little less than 2 years), welcomed the Bolsheviks coming to murder innocents.

Did you comprehend what Yatsenuk said?
Total nonsense

[Boethius]

Yes, I did.  I am not a fan of Yasteniuk, but I understand what he is saying.  I think you do not.  You understand the words, but not the context.

[Doll]

Yes, I did.  I am not a fan of Yasteniuk, but I understand what he is saying.  I think you do not.  You understand the words, but not the context.

Then i agree to an idiot

[Boethius]

He's not an idiot, but he plays to a particular audience, which is the lowest common denominator.

[Doll]

He's not an idiot, but he plays to a particular audience, which is the lowest common denominator.

Boe, I agree to be an idiot after I read what he and you said

[Boethius]

Ah, OK, I misunderstood.  I thought you were referring to Yatseniuk, and I would respect that opinion.

[Doll]

He's not an idiot, but he plays to a particular audience, which is the lowest common denominator.

Please do

[AkMike]

Boe, I agree to be an idiot after I read what he and you said

Classic!

[AC]

Did you comprehend what Yatsenuk said?
Total nonsense

It's you who cannot comprehend something very simple.  You seem to think that the Soviet Union under Stalin was some sort of angelic paradise when nothing could be further from the truth.  Stalin's propaganda minister at that time wanted revenge on Germany and any Germans and he whipped the Soviet troops into a frenzy of raping and pillaging every village they went through on the way to Berlin.  Apparently you've never heard of all the ethnic Germans who were raped and then murdered in E. Prussia? (now Kaliningrad -- most traces of Germans being there permanently removed).  In fact I once met a very ignorant Russian woman from Riga, Latvia (indoctrinated by the Soviets like you, and ignorant of any real history) who did not even know that Riga was originally settled by Germans and major portions of historic Riga were build by German merchants.  Over 1 Million German women in Berlin were raped by Soviet troops.  Of course you will probably deny it.  No doubt the Soviets took reprisals against W. Ukrainians and likely murdered thousands.  Approximately 10 million ethnic German civilians were sent to the Siberian Gulag at the end of WWII and never heard from again.  So yes the Soviets did invade W. Ukraine, Poland and Germany.  NOT their territory so why did they go there?  To rape, plunder and pillage like thieves.

[AC]

Boe, I agree to be an idiot after I read what he and you said

So funny ha ha ha!  So now we all agree!   

[Doll]

AC, who attacked whom in 1941?

[Doll]

So funny ha ha ha!  So now we all agree!   

I do agree but just for this forum

[Gator]

AC, who attacked whom in 1941?

Of course, Germany attacked the Soviets (and a few months later the Japanese attacked the US). 

This invasion was a stab in the back because previously the Soviets had been 1) shipping raw materials to Germany to build the Nazi war machine and 2) negotiating with Hitler for the Soviets to join the Axis pact and divide the world (Soviets would have rights to Bosphorus, Iraq, Iran, parts of eastern Europe, etc.).   

If you were educated during Soviet times, you did not know of Stalin's plans to join the Axis pact.                                   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiers_of_History