The Propaganda War

[whynotme]

whynotme, most of us don't understand what is being said and happening. Could you explain it for us?

The first video was made in kiev. You can see young Ukrainian Nazis abused women who have come to put flowers in remembrance of Berkut.

The second video - villagers stopped the tank, which was sent against the insurgent South-East.  Any tanks were used against Crimean population?

The third video - the presidential candidate of the South-East Tsarev, who was beaten after the TV conference.
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-presidential-candidates-attacked-516/ <<< in English here

But you're know all, you are not brainwashed and your point of view is the only correct 

[whynotme]

In spite of your attitude toward the USA, you might want to use some common sense and ask yourself why tens or hundreds of thousands of people want to immigrate to the USA?  Many, waiting for years to get immigration approval and some risking their lives to get her illegally.  Can you say the same about Russia?  Are all these people just brainwashed idiots that are fools standing in line for something worse than Russia?  Think about it.

May I use the same weapon as you do? Don't judge everybody according ur wife.  Sure she comes to USA just cuz a great love not citizenship.
Think about it.

[Belvis]

I saw today a comment thread about protests in East of Ukraine. A talk between Russian (R.)  and local from Kharkov (U.):

> U.: I saw here no russian special forces men. I were watching, but failed. There is people with cracked brains after maidan who wants to run in Russia to feel confidence in the future.
> R.: Of course, there are no special forces there. Civil riots are out of their jurisdiction.
> U.: How is no? Our media in Kharkov declares daily about 20 exposed FSB guys. So I insist there are FSB men, at least in TV ).
> R.: Hey, slow down, guys. We can't keep pace with you to prepare new experts. You force us to send poorly equipped youngsters.
> U.: Don't send more, we're closing the border. Though I wander what will be in reports from our valiant secret service. Probably they will catch the rest couple of millions spies.

[ghost of moon goddess]

1

really? I googled поребрик Донбасс and a dozen ads come up selling curb calling in ПОРЕБРИК in Donbass region. May be they don't call it this where you live?

Actually, what they call 'поребрик' are curbstones - stones or blocks used to form curbs/бордюры
where I live and in most places across Russia (except St. Petersburg, I guess)  the word 'поребрик' is not used to mean a curb. Muscovites often say in jest - calling a curb 'поребрик'  is sure to reveal your 'tourist from St. Petersburg' status.

[Gator]

It was done a few times. Three weeks ago over 100 rioters were arrested in Donetsk, a week ago about 80 protestors were arrested in Kharkov. All turned to be Ukrainians.

SBU (security service of Ukraine) detains on regular base russian "diversants" like this 22 y.o. one, who is claimed to be FSB coordinator of unrests in Nikolaev:

What a babe!   She would be an ideal wife for some of our far right-wing American men.   

[Faux Pas]

What's not to love? Big boobs, handles a grenade launcher well and the hand grenade tatt is a nice touch. I'd say she's ideal for a left winger or they should both see other men 

[Gator]

Faux Pas,

Yeah, she could teach a liberal a few things about life.   

We  need to find what marriage agency she is listed with, and then broadcast her contact info.  I don't believe she will be a prodater, wanting to travel to Italy to buy Gucci shoes.   Instead,  she would enjoy a trip to some country in central Africa experiencing a civil war.

[Gator]

My 14-yo stepson watches Russian TV on the internet for news.  He explains to me that the Ukrainian people are injuring Russians living in Ukraine, and that Putin needs to protect the Russians there. 

We had a little talk.


Where are the Russian citizens getting their news?  Is it just government TV?  Are the independent TV channels in Russia allowed to broadcast unfettered coverage of this conflict.   Supposedly during the Crimea seizure the independent stations were censored.

[die_cast]

ask yourself why tens or hundreds of thousands of people want to immigrate to the USA? ... Can you say the same about Russia?

Net migration rates for 2011: positive (blue), negative (orange), stable (green), and no data (gray)



I hope you are able to find Russia on the map... 

The number of people who left Russia (red line) and arrived in Russia (blue line) during 1993-2009 years, thousands of people (Число выбывших из России и прибывших в Россию в 1993—2009 годах, тыс. человек)

[die_cast]

Are the independent TV channels in Russia allowed to broadcast unfettered coverage of this conflict.

There is no independent TV in Russia. There is internet in Russia. And 65 millions of Russians who use internet daily (not just have access every day, but really use it on daily basis).

[whynotme]

Where are the American citizens getting their news?    Were they told at least where Ukraina is?

[Hammer2722]

I saw today a comment thread about protests in East of Ukraine. A talk between Russian (R.)  and local from Kharkov (U.):

> U.: I saw here no russian special forces men. I were watching, but failed. There is people with cracked brains after maidan who wants to run in Russia to feel confidence in the future.
> R.: Of course, there are no special forces there. Civil riots are out of their jurisdiction.
> U.: How is no? Our media in Kharkov declares daily about 20 exposed FSB guys. So I insist there are FSB men, at least in TV ).
> R.: Hey, slow down, guys. We can't keep pace with you to prepare new experts. You force us to send poorly equipped youngsters.
> U.: Don't send more, we're closing the border. Though I wander what will be in reports from our valiant secret service. Probably they will catch the rest couple of millions spies.

Where did you get hilarious piece? A Russian comedy show? 

[die_cast]

Oh, and about Russian comedy show... 



"Transcarpathian partisan"

[Faux Pas]

There is no independent TV in Russia. There is internet in Russia. And 65 millions of Russians who use internet daily (not just have access every day, but really use it on daily basis).

True. If the truth be known, there is no independent internet in Russia, either. We have Russian TV channels at our house. My wife is Russian and watches mostly just the classic Russian programs, hardly none of the Russian news or magazine shows. About 90-95% of her news she gets from various sources on the internet. My wife tells me these are trusted sources for news of Russia. I don't know what those sources are. I've never asked. Of course I don't read Cyrillic anyway.

I've visited Russia many times although I am no expert or even vaguely familiar with Russian politics but, I know many Russians in Russia and I know their position on politics and Putin in particular. I asked my wife why she thought the RW here on this forum could be so diabolically opposite to her view and the views of other Russians we know personally. Her straight and quick response was "it's where they are getting their information".

Countrymen/women from any country are going to disagree especially on politics but, given that you "know" by your admission here that there is no independent news source widely available to Russians in general. Why do you trust what you do have so vehemently?

[die_cast]

 

[die_cast]

there is no independent internet in Russia, either.

Internet is internet. We don't have here some special "Russian internet", everyone can choose what to read now about Ukraine, Western media on internet also.

We have Russian TV channels at our house. My wife is Russian and watches mostly just the classic Russian programs, hardly none of the Russian news or magazine shows.

We now watch channel Disney during half an hour every morning. That's all. Have I to add that there is no political news on Disney channel?

About 90-95% of her news she gets from various sources on the internet.

Similar for me, about 80% of information I get from internet.

I asked my wife why she thought the RW here on this forum could be so diabolically opposite to her view and the views of other Russians we know personally. Her straight and quick response was "it's where they are getting their information".

Well, if all people would get same information they would still have different opinions, it's personal choice. My opinion is different not because I get some "special" and "wrong" information, but because I'm different person.

Why do you trust what you do have so vehemently?

If you think that I trust anything vehemently, you got wrong impression about me.

[pokerintherear]

I asked my wife why she thought the RW here on this forum could be so diabolically opposite to her view and the views of other Russians we know personally. Her straight and quick response was "it's where they are getting their information".

The new propaganda machine is forums and blogs. Political campaigns, governments, pay people to blog and post their views on highly fueled issues 24/7 on the web. Look no further than the current US administration and the Healthcare debate for the last 5 years. The anti gun debate after Sandy Hook. It is the new age of spreading the lies to convince people it is the truth. It is only going to get worse. A propaganda minister's dream.

Look at RUA and this forum. At RUA you have an administrator who hates Ukraine and the US. If you do the research on his name you can piece the puzzle together. He creates forum traffic by making deals and or topics. His pockets are being lined in some way by what he post and publishes.

Usually when something does not make sense its not the truth.

This is the new age of integrity. For $10.00 you throw it out the window when it comes to the internet.

[Muzh]

The new propaganda machine is forums and blogs.

Forums and blogs are just personal opinions. Like this one here. If a head of state is going to use this forum to make an Earth-shattering decision, then we are DEAD.
 
You see how simple was that?
 
You CAN research the internet for FACTS. THAT is a given. The internet CAN be a research tool.
 
It is the lazy people who do not want to exercise their brain who rely on blogs and forums for their "news."

[BillyB]

The question is who is responsible for Civil war in Ukraine?

 

If you see American made guns, brand new uniforms, and use of American(there's a difference between Russian) military grade razor wire being used, we can correctly assume America is promoting civil war in Ukraine. So far I see brand new Russian made gear being used. I still have an old uniform from the Army. It is old and faded. The old soldiers who claim to be protesting are wearing new unmarked gear, not the stuff they had back when they were in the military with unit identifications.


Even in America's civil war, both the South and North had help from other nations. Without proper backing and a real chance to win, citizens are much less likely to have a civil war.


If Russia really doesn't have an interest in the rest of Ukraine, they should pull back their forces and stop talking about Ukraine in Russian news everyday which ends up getting Russian citizens pissed off at Ukraine. High level talks will happen Thursday. We'll see if Russia can accept UN peacekeepers in Ukraine to protect Russian citizens living there and encourage a riot free election next month. I doubt it.

[BC]

If you see American made guns, brand new uniforms, and use of American(there's a difference between Russian) military grade razor wire being used, we can correctly assume America is promoting civil war in Ukraine. So far I see brand new Russian made gear being used. I still have an old uniform from the Army. It is old and faded. The old soldiers who claim to be protesting are wearing new unmarked gear, not the stuff they had back when they were in the military with unit identifications.

That's naive.. the US buys AK47's a plenty...  the pentagon is not dumb... in any case the AK's probably work better.

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-buys-nearly-600000-soviet-ak-47-magazines/

[BillyB]

That's naive.. the US buys AK47's a plenty...  the pentagon is not dumb... in any case the AK's probably work better.

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-buys-nearly-600000-soviet-ak-47-magazines/

We're talking Ukraine right? If America issued out Ak-47's, brand new uniforms and other military gear, who will they issue it out to? Explain why you think the pentagon and America is starting a civil war in Ukraine and trying to topple a Pro West Ukrainian government by issuing Russian made gear to Pro Russian Ukrainians. Why would America help Russia? All this bickering of late between them is just an act?

[Larry1]

Look at RUA and this forum. At RUA you have an administrator who hates Ukraine and the US. If you do the research on his name you can piece the puzzle together. He creates forum traffic by making deals and or topics.

Can you give an example of making deals?

[Muzh]

How about some American propaganda?
 
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/04/224759.htm
 
Can't wait to hear the Russians. 

[BC]

We're talking Ukraine right? If America issued out Ak-47's, brand new uniforms and other military gear, who will they issue it out to? Explain why you think the pentagon and America is starting a civil war in Ukraine and trying to topple a Pro West Ukrainian government by issuing Russian made gear to Pro Russian Ukrainians. Why would America help Russia? All this bickering of late between them is just an act?

Billy,

there are interests and there are interests.. what the common man see's is only a small if any part of the whole scheme, whether from RU or USA  That's the 'jist' of my post... no more, no less.

Do you really think a little forum such as this is authoritative?  I think not.

[Faux Pas]

Internet is internet. We don't have here some special "Russian internet", everyone can choose what to read now about Ukraine, Western media on internet also. We now watch channel Disney during half an hour every morning. That's all. Have I to add that there is no political news on Disney channel?

This is where you are wrong. You only have the internet that your internet provider allows you to have. I have witnessed this in Russia first hand albeit it, that was 8 years ago. Russia was the first place where I experienced that the world wide web could only be accessed through a local intranet. I did see it improve over the years but lately appears to have regressed. There is a reason the Iranians, Chinese, North Koreans and a dozen or so other countries access an intranet but don't have access to the world wide web. It's not since Putin became Emperor that restrictions are starting tightening once again in Russia.

Similar for me, about 80% of information I get from internet.Well, if all people would get same information they would still have different opinions, it's personal choice. My opinion is different not because I get some "special" and "wrong" information, but because I'm different person. If you think that I trust anything vehemently, you got wrong impression about me.

No doubt, People are just going to disagree. I have friends in Russia (few) that openly support Putin. I also have others (most) who opposed Putin but wouldn't do it in public, outside of the home or circle of friends. I remember seeing pictures of Putin on the walls of various homes and work places when he was the prime minister and no picture of Medvedev and he was president.

I fond it odd that 4 years most Russians were pissed that Putin changes the constitution so that he could again be President. When he enters office there was Arab Spring like uprisings in Moscow and Petersburg and now, he's the second coming of Christ to many of the RW posting here. Very odd