Being Greedy....

[JR]

What is "Being greedy?" I just finished reading (again) the blog about how to conduct one's self while in the FSU and with FSUW. I read it early on when I first joined and since have found many references to greed, especially in Western Men. I have thought about this a lot and have a few conclusions. I would like to share my thoughts and hear from the rest of you, in particular the Russian ladies and the men with some personal experience, ie: you've been called greedy. My ex called me greedy on more than one occassion, I always shook my head and thought, "She just doesn't get it."

I have read many times here on this forum that a Russian Man will spend his last Kopek on flowers for his girl friend. The thought that always occured to me was "How silly, I wouldn't do this." And thought I must be a lousy romantic. But the women I date in the US usually say that I am very romantic. But I wasn't spending my last dime on them. Hmmmm, so then I am reading about financial crisis and such. The thought begins to occur to me that perhaps the reason for the expenditure of the last Kopek is that, "Tomorrow it will have less value so why not?" Saving is punished in the FSU by the inflation rates and have been for some time.

[Simoni]

FSU people are very generous.  So in contrast, we do appear to be greedy.

My wife loves it when I am generous-- giving nice gifts to friends and even tipping great at a restaurant.

[boaterguy]

Greedy = Stingy

[Sculpto]

just spend it.. what good is it sitting in the bank?  LIVE TODAY!  Tomorrow you might get plowed over by a semi truck.

Then again.. didnt we just have a long talk about the frugality of Russian women?

Jolly.. if you ask me.. it is another female contradiction that we men will never understand.

[myrddin]

even tipping great at a restaurant.

I recall some odd looks from UW when leaving American-style tips in Ukraine (when there was service).  But I once had a dealer in Vegas refuse more tips, so maybe that's something else. 

[ladyR]

"Tomorrow it will have less value so why not?" Saving is punished in the FSU by the inflation rates and have been for some time.

I think that you are on the right road of thinking . When a man thinks about "how to save on his woman" I consider this guy not "greedy" but very "cheap" in all aspects of life.

[Simoni]

I recall some odd looks from UW when leaving American-style tips in Ukraine (when there was service).  But I once had a dealer in Vegas refuse more tips, so maybe that's something else. 

Yeah, I am talking about tipping here in the US.

What she does not like here is the tax added to the price!  She says the price on the item should be the price you pay!  I agree :-)))

[Misha]

just spend it.. what good is it sitting in the bank?  LIVE TODAY!  Tomorrow you might get plowed over by a semi truck.

Nice in theory, but in practice not so good. If you want to buy a house or some other large purchase, you have to save.

[Misha]

What is "Being greedy?"

They mean cheap. However, what is cheap to one woman, will be a foolish spendthrift to another. As everything else, there is no one size fits all when it comes to Russian women, any more than any other women IMHO.

[Sculpto]

Nice in theory, but in practice not so good. If you want to buy a house or some other large purchase, you have to save.

 Oh I know.. just making the point.  Personally I try to do a bit of both.. set aside enough to have some fun with.. but keep an ever growing reserve that I dont touch no matter what.. except for serious emergencies.  For example.. being laid off in this economy and being able to go on cruise control living in high cost SF and be fine for at least two years.. including being able to split to Mex for a month and cover all K1 and new wife in US expenses.. but then again.. I dont waste money.. I bet there are guys here on this forum that spend more in a day without batting an eye than I spend in a month.

btw.. f I sublet my apartment.. it will be cheaper for a month in Mex than it would for the same month here.

[Makkin]

wow,


  Is a great question and probably one that is confused at times in these relations.


   When I was dining in Kiev with a lady and tipped the waitress a good amount of money(fair tip) the lady I was with mentioned thereafter how I was a good and generous man. A few days later when we were strolling along the streets she asked me in all seriousness if I was going to be stingy with her in our future relationship?


   The Doctor I was dating had an opposite approach to dinner and insisted on dealing with the waitress on all items and area of the dinner. My date told this young waitress every order in the book and had her hopping left and right to get things perfect. I slipped the girl her tip without my date noticing it and she smiled with a head down gesture and said "Thanks"...(in Russian language she said thanks".)


   Sometimes you can get a lot of information while eating but the best way to get a somewhat honest answer from anyone is get up early in the morning with your lady and ask questions then. In the morning the mental state is closer to the sub-concious and usually you get an honest answer because the brain is not fully awake.


Makkin

[kievstar]

You can spend 10,000 usd and still be called greedy.  Greediness is more than the amount you spend.  It is your willingness to spend. 

[Gator]

Kievstar has it correctly.  It is the amount a man spends relative to how much money he has.

Why is greedy (stingy) bad?

-  RW consider greedy actions as indicators of a selfish, egotistical man.

-  RW have a lot of pride. To ask her man repeatedly for money is like begging; they abhor it.  They expect a man to know.

-  RW are concerned with stability and security (justifiably so considering the economic ups and downs).  When times get difficult, a greedy man would not put his family first.

-  And the real reason:  RW follow the adage that money belongs NOT to the person who saves it but to the person who spends it.

[Turboguy]

And the real reason:  RW follow the adage that money belongs NOT to the person who saves it but to the person who spends it.

Humm, not sure I agree with that one.   The money belongs to the person he spent it with.  The person who spent it doesn't have it any more.  How can it belong to him?

As far as tipping goes my wife checks every tip I leave to make sure I don't over tip.  If I left a big tip it would not impress my wife, it would create the first fight we ever had.

[Turboguy]

These forums amaze me! All this blather when the simple answer is me quoting myself!

After reading here for a few months....participating with no acknowledgement...you folks are loosing another married dude of more than 5 years now! Paca!

Well if after 58 posts no one acknowledged that you are here then your posts must have lacked something.   Tell us that you look 20 years younger than you are or that everyone should chase 21 year old women and plenty of people will acknowledge you. 

If greedy = stingy is supposed to create a flurry of discussion then if I said
greedy = stingy = tightwad = skinflint = miser = cheapskate then all the members of RWD should be filled with shock and awe at such a profound statement.

Being more realistic, there are a lot of good people here and a lot of great thoughts and ideas exchanged.   I hope you stick around since after 5 years of marriage I am sure you really do have some great knowledge and outstanding experiences to share here. 

[Lily]

Kievstar has it correctly.  It is the amount a man spends relative to how much money he has.

Why is greedy (stingy) bad?

-  RW consider greedy actions as indicators of a selfish, egotistical man.

-  RW have a lot of pride. To ask her man repeatedly for money is like begging; they abhor it.  They expect a man to know.

-  RW are concerned with stability and security (justifiably so considering the economic ups and downs).  When times get difficult, a greedy man would not put his family first.

-  And the real reason:  RW follow the adage that money belongs NOT to the person who saves it but to the person who spends it.

Gator is right, IMHO.

The concept of 'greediness' is one of fundamental things that make a Russian mentality stand out from the Western one.

Partially it is in the translation of the word.  'Жaдный' is often translated as just 'greedy'. It if often not taken into account that for a Western person, greedy is one who wants all that one can get, with no thought of others' needs; desiring more than one needs or deserves;  greedy implies a desire to possess or acquire something to an amount beyond what one needs or deserves.

If you tell this Websters' interpretation of the word, a Russian would be surprised and probably tell 'no, no, it is not quite what I meant by this'.  By 'greedy', a Russian would imply someone who is rather unwilling to part with his posessions and belongings; someone who is not willing to share what he/she already has; someone who is cautious about his expenses. An English speaker would probably call this 'cheap, stingy' meaning a negative, or 'thrifty, frugal' meaning a positive. Of note, жадный is never positive for a Russian ear.

We can probably figure out where does this perception come from. You are right about repeated financial collapses in FSU. However, the mentality glorifying a generosity existed even hundreds years ago in Russia. I guess that may also be explained by absence of Protestant value of hard work, modesty and frugality. The Orthodox culture also values them but somehow not that openly and outright as the Protestant one does.

I second the opinion of Gator and would eventually add that by preferring a 'generous' man, some Russian women prefer someone who gives them th emost security. In other words, if he spends his money handsomely and even recklessly, she gets the message that he is a secure earner. OTOH if she sees a cautious spender, she may think that he is somehow less than a good earner, otherwise he would be a more eager spender.

[Ooooops]

I have read many times here on this forum that a Russian Man will spend his last Kopek on flowers for his girl friend.

Boyfriend's kopeks and husband's kopeks are two completely different entities.       Why should I care about some guy's spending habits if I don't plan living with him for the rest of my life?   

[MatryoshkaMan]

My ex just had her birthday party in a restaurant (I was not there - it was just her friends) and prior to it she was telling me what she told her friends to get for her. Very specific. Friend x will give me ____ and friend y will give me _____. She has a russian guy friend (who likes her but she is not into him) and she was saying the same old RW line that a RM will sell his kidneys to pay for an extravigent present to a good friend or loved one. She was syaing that he is going to bring me a $100+ present!! Well guess what? He brought her a couple of flowers. No card, no chocolates...So don't believe all the RW hype you hear! But I have to say Russian families are very generous. My ex's parents paid for our wedding reception and I know that it was a stretch for them. I think young RW are not too concerned about spending money freely, after all they have a man to worry about a small detail like caring for the money tree! And what woman in the world doesn't think of a man as a walking credit card anyways? O! I wasnt supposed to post here! Sorry!

[Lily]

  And what woman in the world doesn't think of a man as a walking credit card anyways? 

I think that there is a number of women who don't.

If the man does not have to offer anything more than that...

[Simoni]

These forums amaze me! All this blather when the simple answer is me quoting myself!

After reading here for a few months....participating with no acknowledgement...you folks are loosing another married dude of more than 5 years now! Paca!

I'm sorry you are disappointed, boaterguy.   I think your equation is quite good, if that helps. And hey-- I did acknowledge you and did ask you out for dinner in Orlando a few months ago.  Our timing just did not work out.

So take back your paca and hang around, man.

~Simoni

[Simoni]

... Paca!


It's Poka! (transliterated of course) how could anyone married greater than 5 years possibly miss that!    that should create a mini-scandal that'll put your name in lights..  :evil:

Lily-- forgive the Russian language lesson....

Dave, when you live with a Russian woman, you live at the oral level.  Thus, I tend to write the language very infrequently, and when I do, I write it the way it sounds.  So Paca, paca it is...and not the polka dance. 

[groovlstk]

These forums amaze me! All this blather when the simple answer is me quoting myself!

After reading here for a few months....participating with no acknowledgement...you folks are loosing another married dude of more than 5 years now! Paca!

BG, I hope you won't leave, we need experienced guys like you in solid marriages.

FWIW, I also believe the word "greedy," as it's sometimes used by RW, isn't so easily defined as stingy (although it certainly is the best one-word definition I can think of). I dated women who thought men who talked about long-term financial planning were "counting money" and thus eligible for the G-man label.

[Gator]

RW follow the adage that money belongs NOT to the person who saves it but to the person who spends it.

Humm, not sure I agree with that one...The person who spent it doesn't have it any more.  How can it belong to him?

You are correct - when the money is spent, the money itself is gone.  Yet what did it buy?

If a man makes and saves some money and he spends it on new boots and coat for his woman, the money in effect was not his but hers.  If it pleases him to see and feel her happiness in her new shoes and pretty things, he is happy too. 

In contrast, a "greedy" miser lives miserably yet has a lot of money.  The "generous" spender has little saved money yet is enjoying his life by the experiences and "things" that his money can buy, much of it for others.

So the "generous" RM spends what he has and then goes back to work to make some more money for his family.  Some of the money may be saved under the mattress for the purchase of a car, yet the intent is to spend it soon.  Yes, this philosophy does little about retirement and contingency planning; however, I think these two are not high priorities with many RM.

So this may easily be the mentality of a RW.  However, with time and explanation, I think she can be educated to have a more prudent concept of financial planning.  Neverthless, she will demand to stop and smell the roses along the way, and that is good for the man and the woman.

Eventually someday a RW may advance to the same level as an AW and max out her credit cards.   

[Gator]

BoaterGuy,

I did write earlier "greedy (stingy)" after your gave your definition. This is indeed an acknowledgment of my agreement with your definition.  Sorry that I did not cite the source for "stingy" and your name.

[gemini]

Man shows his affection or love to a woman by buying presents, flowers etc. Most of the women think so. If he doesn't want to spend some money he doesn't care about me, -they think. All AM are rich by FSU standards. When this "rich" AM came to FSU and did not invite her to a nice restaurant or bought presents/flours what do you think her impression would be?
I like to spend money for people that I care about. Isn’t it natural?