List of things to take to the Ukraine

[calmissile]

I am curious about where the ATM was located that you think scammed you.  I was warned to use only ATM's that are located at a bank building, not the stand alone ones found on street corners.

I never had a problem withdrawing money from ATM's at banks and did so  nearly every day.

[Mander]

I have no idea at which ATM I was skimmed (skimmed not scammed).
There is a low limit on how much you can withdraw per machine, so I always use lots of ATMs when in UA.

[ML]

I am curious about where the ATM was located that you think scammed you.  I was warned to use only ATM's that are located at a bank building, not the stand alone ones found on street corners.

I never had a problem withdrawing money from ATM's at banks and did so  nearly every day.

This idea that you are more safe when using an ATM inside a bank building went out of style several years ago.

In years past, the way to steal money from an account was to have 'sleeve readers' that read the magnetic strips and the PIN you punched in.  Or to have fake ATM machines that recorded what you punched in, etc.  Or these machines might even 'eat' your card.

Also in years past, cameras etc., might be used to record when PIN you punched in to be used later when someone physically stole your card.

These above methods were where the advice came from to use ATMs inside banks, upscale hotel lobbies, etc.

But that is all behind  us now.

Now, the stealing of money from your bank account happens WITHIN THE BANKING SYSTEM.

Computer jocks working WITHIN THE BANKING SYSTEM extract the data from within the system when you put your card and PIN into ANY ATM machine, regardless if the ATM is inside a bank or wherever.

They then sell the complete info on the magnetic strip OR the smart chip, along with your PIN to others who have the capability to make a new plastic clone of your card.

These cards are then sold to others who may use them in locations far from where you used your card.

[The Natural]

Yeah ML, seems nothing is totally safe. Here in Kerch we go inside a bank to withdraw money. One pain is the maximum amount per time is 1000 grivnas. Last time there were long lines and I noticed some differences in behaviour than I'm used to. First people stood very close and the persons withdrawing the money did no attempt to hide it when they punched in their codes. I'm used to people backing away from the ATM and looking in another direction.


In Norway they now issue cards with chips but also still have the magnetic strip so that it can be used where the chips are not in place yet. I have my card open only for Europe in my settings, so although I'm not 100% safe, the risk is somewhat reduced. So far so good.

[ML]

In Norway they now issue cards with chips but also still have the magnetic strip so that it can be used where the chips are not in place yet. I have my card open only for Europe in my settings, so although I'm not 100% safe, the risk is somewhat reduced. So far so good.

Good that you are trying; but you are still not quite getting the point Natural.

It is  the computer jocks within the banking system who are the new crooks.
They capture from the system all the data on your magnetic strip  AND on the newer chips when you put your card into the ATM along with the PIN you punch in.

There is no defense against those who are capable of doing this.  The only thing we as users can do is restrict our usage of the cards to those countries where the rule of law exists and where corruption is relatively low.

You can look at various studies on the internet that reveals the corruption level and lack of rule of law in the countries of the world.  You don't even have to guess where the FSU countries rank.

[The Natural]

Good that you are trying; but you are still not quite getting the point Natural.

I got the point. I just haven't heard of problems with insiders in the banking industry directly stealing information as you say. Any links? The closest thing that I've heard of recently was that MF Global stole money directly from their clients, but that had nothing to do with credit cards.

[calmissile]

I got the point. I just haven't heard of problems with insiders in the banking industry directly stealing information as you say. Any links? The closest thing that I've heard of recently was that MF Global stole money directly from their clients, but that had nothing to do with credit cards.

I have not seen the reports that ML refers to either, as far as widespread 'inside jobs'.  During the whole month of September, I used my ATM card daily (at ATM's at banks) and never had a problem.  I am really curious as to how widespread this has gotten in Ukriane.  Do we have any recent reports from RWD members that got ripped off by using bank ATM's lately?

[timinua]

9 years of ATM usage in Ukraine, and the only time I got ripped off turned out to be from an ATM in London, while I was on a short trip. They pulled the money out in Volgograd, but they cloned my card in Blighty!

In fact, my Ukrainian cards send me an SMS every time there is a transaction, even when I used them in the US this past Christmas.

In Ukraine, PrivatBank is the bank that I recommend (and they have ATMs everywhere).

[Ranetka]

I have not seen the reports that ML refers to either, as far as widespread 'inside jobs'.  During the whole month of September, I used my ATM card daily (at ATM's at banks) and never had a problem.  I am really curious as to how widespread this has gotten in Ukriane.  Do we have any recent reports from RWD members that got ripped off by using bank ATM's lately?

My card details were fraudulently used last year, the card never left England, all transactions were done in New York.

[ML]

The situation of cloning of debit cards by persons working within the banking system in FSU was told to me by banks that I have done financial consulting work for.

I couldn't find an exact reference to the type I described earlier in this thread, but here are some other techniques.

http://atmcommunity.com/news.php?newsid=53

http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/1001-how-cybercrime-gang-stole-13-million-in-1-day.html

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/09/a_professional.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2009/11/eight_indicted_in_9m_rbs_world.html

[Jumper]

I got the point. I just haven't heard of problems with insiders in the banking industry directly stealing information as you say. Any links? The closest thing that I've heard of recently was that MF Global stole money directly from their clients, but that had nothing to do with credit cards.

no links
personal experience? yes.




my acount was hit for about 800 USD , from a alleged card purchase in india.
(in that currency)


having never used that debit card on the net, or out of country, there isnt many  other ways someone had the info..
and the bank confirmed it was a case of the major banks being *hit* a few moths back for tons of peoples bank and card  data.


It actually was all over the news here, but i was hit a few months later so dint associate it at the time.