Turboguy's Trips - Sometimes things don't go the way you hope

[BC]

Turbo,

I really think you are simply trying to hard.  Chasin never did me any good at all.. Every woman I had long term relationships with just 'appeared'.. all you really have to do is have faith it will happen, stay on the playing field and keep your eyes open for that opportunity.

Life is played out on terms other than your own.

There is no 'perfect' woman.. anywhere on earth or in the universe.

It's not like jumping where you can rely on gravity to produce the effect you desire.


[edit] p.s.  I really like the Freudian way a fiancee addressed you: as Tuborg guy.. have a beer, relax for a change and enjoy the ride!

[Muj]

Turbo,

We feel for you and my finacee and i find you may improve ur success by improving ur approach and perceptions.


First we notice girl a provides a strong message to you by performing her dance. At this point she expects a man to show attraction by becoming romantic. If not she may believe you are not interested.  If ur not move on.  Take the initiative to move on if ur not interested.

Next u need to perform homework on all your destinations, pick out the restaurants in advance. We found very nice, romantic restaurants in Moscow and Odessa for reasonable price. Actually I found the restaurants in Moscow as she was busy at school.  Also this shows the woman that ur taking the initiative. We may all agree that the FSU woman want to be the woman and the man to be the man.

Consider even contacting one of the agencies before u travel to meet the woman or at least have the contact info handy.  Then contact the agency if you find ur meeting is not producing anything.   You are making a big investment in time and money whether u use an agency or not.  AFA helped my find a wonderful woman in my visit to Odessa.  I felt instant chemistry.  Remember this is a service and u need to apply it to your satisfaction.

Also important,  you should be enjoying your trip.  Meeting new people, eating different foods, learning a new culture and language.   Dont expect the women to conform completely to your culture.  Learn of theirs too.

Good luck,

Mark

[Turboguy]

Thanks for the great comments guys.  I agree Fiancee,  I like sex and I think it is an important part of a relationship.  If there is sex between two people who like each other a lot, and if one of them is your wife or fiancee you just sort hope that you are the other one.   It is nicer that way sometimes.

BC, I can't disupte that I am chasin hard but I think it is more exposing myself to potienal partners and not trying to push any particualar one.  I still think it is a numbers game and if I meet enough gals sooner or later one will turn out to be the right one.

Thanks for the good suggestions Mark.  I have usually tried to let the gal pick the restaurants since they have some knowlege of the city and have some first hand experience to draw from rather than me picking out something from a guidebook but after the $ 550.00 dinner in Moscow perhaps I should change that.  Good thought.  I had some nice meals in great restaurants before but never one with a tab like the one in Moscow.

Several years ago I had decided I was going to avoid longer first trips to meet one gal just because I had run into situations like I did in Nikoleav and Kharkov where you are there for 5 days and nothing good is happening.   For now I am going back to 2 or 3 day meetings max and one day in many cases.  If we have good chemistry I can always go back or change my plans.  I think that should help with the one situation but the agency thing like AFA is a good suggestion.  I always feel a little ackward pulling the plug early if you tell a gal you are going to visit for 5 days and you have no chemistry.   The reality is I would be doing us both a favor. 

 

[BillyB]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a gal who doesn't ask about sleeping arrangements.  She is just a mature woman who is confident in herself.  It doesn't always mean they are willing to have sex first day either.

A very confident mature woman will not hesitate to share a bed.  Quite often they will get in bed and then say . . . this is my side . . . that is your side . . . good night.

So likely this gal did not know before hand if she was or was not going to have sex with you.  She just went with the flow and let her degree of comfort with you control her actions.  Many men cannot seem to comprehend that women have sexual desires also.

And this idea that if a gal has sex quickly with you, she probably does with many other guys is total nonsense as a criteria for deciding whether or not to continue with the gal.

There are many gals who have sex with many guys quickly . . . . until they meet a guy they put their sights on for husband material.  They very clearly know the silly rules and ideas that men have about these things.  So guess what . . . . they hold off on sex with this guy they are really interested in.  He . . . . being the normal guy who thinks in this silly way says . . . . now here is a good quality woman.  I will have to work hard to get in her panties . . . . this is the type of gal I want . . . . not some loose gal who has sex on first date.  What a stupid way for guys to think.

Some of you guys sound like you have a hard time getting laid. I've been in serious relations with FSU women for 7 years of my life. The sex is abundunt. This issue at hand is the mental state of Turboguy's woman. Is she marriage material or is she trailer trash? I question any womans mental state of sleeping with a man that she's met in person for the first time. Albert, you say it's a sign of mature confident woman but if I want women like that, I'll go to the bar for a one night stand or purchase commercial sex. So far I've never needed to pay money for sex.

When you can outgrow attempting to Fock everything with a hole in it and made yourself a man in demand, you can afford to be choosy. You don't have to work hard to get in anyone's panties.  I choose quality over quantity. I choose a woman that has some standards and having standards is nothing to be ashamed about.  

[Bruno]

Turbo,

I really think you are simply trying to hard.  Chasin never did me any good at all.

Не выбрасывай любовь за дверь своей жизни,
говоря, что ее невозможно найти.
Самый быстрый способ получить любовь -
это отдавать ее; Самый быстрый способ потерять ее -
это держаться за нее слишком крепко;
И самый лучший способ сохранить ее -
это наделить ее крыльями.

Don't shut love out of your life  
By saying it is impossible to find.    
The quickest way to receive love is to give;
 The fastest way to lose it,
Is to hold too tightly;      
And the best way to keep it      
Is to give it wings

[Leslie]

Well I have been trying to stay out of this but this thread is unlikely to come to the anything other than self congratulating conclusions unless someone posts the obvious.

I read through your recent adventures with the fable of "Sisyphus"  playing loudly in my head.  (For those of you who did not study Classics - Sisyphus was doomed by the gods to roll a boulder up hill for eternity…) 

You stories you relate are typical of a man who has reached late middle age but developed little in the way of dating and relationship skills. 

You meet a women e, who from the start you have no chemistry with and what do you do?  Act like a man tell her it is not going to work on day one then go to one of the many Agencies in Nikolaev and meet other women.  Nope you are too weak to do that.  You stick around for 5 days killing time in an internet café and waste a week of your trip!

You meet a women in Kiev for the first time and she asks to bring her friends on an a date to an expensive nightclub.  YOU SAY YES!!  Do you enjoy playing "sugar daddy and being fleeced?  Obviously so because when this girl lap dances for you don't think "prostitutka"  you think you might have found a girlfriend (RWLMAO!!) 

Then you do a return trip to Kiev to see this woman, spend five days with her and get nowhere.  You knew this outcome days before but still waste your time and money.  What has to happen for you to move on??  You appear too timid to make even obvious decisions?


Then you travel to Moscow and give a good time girl virtually anything she wants!  Almost a thousand bucks of wining, dining and clubbing Oh and you got NOWT.  Well a fool and his money are soon parted.  You badly need a chaperone.  This sort of behaviour gives everyone a bad reputation.

The creepy thing is you are still writing to this woman. 

Then you fly to Kharkov and spend a whole trip with a woman with whom you had no chemistry.  Do you tell her it isn't working on day 2 and head for one of the many agencies in Kharkov and try to meet other women?  NO  you are just to weak to do this.  In stead you stick around and by the end of the trip you are wondering if you are being scammed!

The woman you met in LA sounds a much better prospect.  Did you get any feeling from her that she liked you for yourself rather than the money you were spending?? 

Do you see any patterns in your behaviour?  You have a poor track record in this pursuit.  Surely you must see that continuing with your current approach will just lead to further failure!!  I don't hold out much hope that you can change your ways.  You have reached late middle age without learning the basic dating skills most of us pick up in high school. 

My intention here is not to ridicule strange as it might seem to you it is to help.

Here are some ideas to break your pattern -

[list=1]

• Be very selective in who you meet.  Set rigid criteria.  Be realistic in your expectations.  No one under 30, must speak some English  etc.  You set the criteria and stick to them.  Do not get distracted by pretty faces and long legs ! 
  [/*]
  
• Use WMVM.  Stop all long letter writing campaigns.  A few letters for introduction fine.  Beyond that don't waste your time. Face to face meeting is the way to go.  No definite chemistry after 2 dates - Goodbye! 
  [/*]
  
• The woman has to be on her best behaviour.  First time she tries to take you shopping or to an expensive Japanese restaurant.  Finish with her on the spot.  Russian and Ukrainian men act like this.  A very experienced agency owner (Ron Woody)  shared this view with me.  Remember in FSU men have the power (not vice versa as in USA) USE IT!  You are acting weak and the women taking advantage of you. 
  [/*]
  
• If the woman likes you the relationship will become sexual after about 4 dates.  It could happen sooner.  It is unlikely to happen later.  If a woman lets you return home without sleeping with you she does not want you.  Period.  Forget about her. 
  [/*]
  
• You need to find a woman who likes you for yourself, not the money you are spending.  Stop acting like a tourist.  Stop throwing your money around.
  [/*]

[Son of Clyde]

Turbo, I agree with BC on this.

I chased after one woman for a long time until it registered in my mind that she was not interested. When I first met her she sent for her girlfriend, under the ruse that she be our interpreter. Her girlfriend was used so that a third person would always be there. Does not leave much time for romance. Her friend went everywhere we went. My friend refused to stay at my flat, saying that she was having her period. This was a real slap in the face because she was writing in her letters that she loved me with all her heart. Funny how her feelings of love could change immediately when she saw my face. If a woman uses you for money and expensive dinners you should probably drop them immediately. If someone cares they will most likely feel guilty asking you for a lot of money. My wife avoided expensive restaurants and would cook in our flat to save money. If she thought a restaurant was too expensive she would phone the restaurant beforehand. We went to TGIF and the Italian restaurant next door, when we were in Kiev because the prices were not extremely high.

I hope if you return this month you will meet some nice women, maybe one or two in their 30's or 40's. A varied age range may be the best way to go.

Good luck to you.

[Turboguy]

Leslie,  When I saw you had posted, I started to laugh becuase I knew I was going to get a new "A' hole ripped into my body but I have to say that was a great post and I both enjoyed it and thought it was very helpful as well as being right on.   That was good, solid advice.  I have read your post a few times and will read it a few more yet.  I still beleive that good solid advice does more good than the clue bat and your post was good, solid, well thought out advice.

Clyde,  Thanks for the suggestions.  Sometimes we want to believe that things are what they are not in reality.

I will clarify one thing.  Both with "a" in Kiev and with 't" in Los Angeles there were no expensive dinners.  With 'a' we actually ate the one time at the italian restaurant next to TGIF that you mentiond.   With "t" in LA actually we never ate dinner, only once.  We had two meals a day with the exception of the last day when we had dinner at the hotel.  The free breakfast at the hotel and we would have a late lunch. Lunch one time was the buffet at Western Sizzler.  The only money I spent on 't" was the admission to the places I took her to sightsee such as Disneyland and Universal.  "t" refused to let me pay for the shopping she did.  "a" has never asked me to buy her anything.  I don't see either one as out for money.

Leslie, your suggestion not to get distracted by a pretty face and long legs is a tough one.  I am only human you know?   Regardless, I agree.  A pretty face is nice but after a few years they are just the person you are with and that is not half as important as being with a good person who you enjoy being with and having a good relationship with them.

Thanks for the good suggestions.  I will do my best to listen to them and feel free to jump in if anyone else has some comments. 

[dorogoyroberto]

Mr. Turboguy,

It is hearterning to read that you can see Leslie's post is  well-reasoned and contains, advice that others in this forum and  various discussion lists should heed without demur, IMHO.

In general, how old are the women you have met? I think you and I are pretty much the same age; I am 52 in a few days.

Just as an aside: what is with the "a" and "t" business? Writing "Alla"  and "Tatiana" for example, is not likely to betray anybody. I, for one,  can keep names straight but do have some problem following along with  the use of single initials. Do not know if this is my personal  deficiency of sorts BUT this is a discussion forum, not a spy  novel.  I think it was James Bond who reported to "M?":)

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[Turboguy]

Hi Roberto,

The range of ages were 25 to 36.  Actully one was 25 one was 26 two were 31 and one was 36. 

As far as the initials instead of the names I picked that up from other trip reports.   I am sure in some of the cases the odds of picking up an identy are really small.   the 'e' in Moscow with the $ 550 dinner was Elena.  I am sure there are 50,000 31 year old Elenas in Moscow.  The 'e' in Kharkov was Elvira.  I am sure if anyone else was writing Elvira with my description of her being pretty, 31, long jet black hair and the town they could realize they were writing the same gal I met.  Since I think it is possible she was a scammer, maybe it is better if they do.  I am sure anyone could also go to Elena's or many other sites and do a search for 31 year old gals named Elvira and see exactly who I met.  I would think the same could be true with "a" in Kiev if I gave her name.  I think she was sincere and I will avoid using her name for now.

I can always remember the last romance tour I did a few years ago with EC.  The gal I was most interested in was Anna.  Anna was seeing me about every other day.  All the guys got together at breakfast and hashed around war stories.  One of the other guys was always talking about an Anna.   I sorta wondered if we were working on the same gal until Wednesday.   On Wednesday at breakfast he said he might see Anna that night but was to let her know by 6:00.   What had Anna told me?  That she might be able to see me that night but could not tell me for sure until after 6:00.  Tell me we were not seeing the same gal.  By the way he won that battle but I still see Anna listed on the sites and still looking.  Of course, so am I.

Let me pose this question for everyone.  Is it better to use initials to protect the identity and avoid any hurt feelings or is it better to use the names to avoid confusion?   What does everyone think?

 

[Turboguy]

I think I just found a soulmate for Elena with the $ 550.00 dinner.  I have been writing one gal from Tomsk and asked her what she likes to eat in my last letter.  This was her answer.

I love sea food. I like red caviar, shrimps, crabs, lobsters. Yes, I cook
tasty and good, as I▓m gourmet :-) I like eat in restaurants category A. I
never eat in cafes, McDonalds, etc.

I think I will run fast!   i think I will ask that question more often.

 

[Albert]

I think I just found a soulmate for Elena with the $ 550.00 dinner.  I have been writing one gal from Tomsk and asked her what she likes to eat in my last letter.  This was her answer.

I love sea food. I like red caviar, shrimps, crabs, lobsters. Yes, I cook
tasty and good, as I▓m gourmet :-) I like eat in restaurants category A. I
never eat in cafes, McDonalds, etc.

I think I will run fast!   i think I will ask that question more often.

 

Turbo, I think that is a good idea . . . . asking about the food and restaurant choices.

As I wrote before, I haven't encountered the women who want me to spend a lot of money on them, but it still seems like a good idea to test the waters like this.

Not a sure fire method though, as women can always lie about this.  i.e. Talk a lot in letters about cooking you meals in your apartment, and then switch tunes when you get there.  But it can weed out some of them at least.

[Albert]

BillB, you need to work a lot on your reading comprehension skills.  And after a lot of work there, you can then start working on your logic and trying to insure that your comments at least relate to what others have actually written about.

[Albert]

Turbo and others.  I don't think there is really a good answer to this idea of using 'a' or 'Anna' or 'gal3.'  I have used all three methods and didn't really like any of them.

There is a real conflict between giving info here that is helpful to other guys and giving info so that you get some worthwhile feedback, and the need to not unduly embarrass or stress the ladies.

Years ago when guys got upset about naming names and said things like Natasha from small city Russia is bound to recognize herself, I thought it was absurd.  But more recently, I have been seeing more and more evidence that more and more gals are picking up on things that are being bandied about.

There was some recent postings here about the problems of guys and gals having their profiles posted around without their permission . . . long after they were married, etc.

Just this week, one of my gals sent me e-mail quoting from a profile she found on a Russian Website.  She said this sounds a lot like you except for different name and different birth date.  Turns out the wording was exactly what I had written in a newspaper ad about 4 years ago.  Someone had taken that ad and put the info on this website without my knowledge.  This is causing me quite a bit of trouble because my gal now thinks that I may be running a current ad, that I have lied about my age, and that maybe I have even lied about my name.  Even when all can be explained away and proven wrong, etc., it still raises question marks in her mind and clouds an otherwise problem free relationship.

All of this out of the blue and through no fault of my own.  But what it suggests to me is that, when we discuss gals here . . . . we really don't know what is going to happen to the content of these discussions in the future.  Right now, they may sound innocent enough . . . . but who knows where and in what context they may appear in the future.

So should we be using names or not . . . . I just don't know.  And even without names, the identities can still be determined in many cases . . . . maybe not now, but at some point in the future.

But without discussions involving locations, situations, circumstances, descriptions, etc., then we are really left with little to say.

[Turboguy]

I am sitting at my computer catching up on my correspondence and checking the forum when I need a break.  A lot of the letters I am writing today have the question, what kind of foods do you like and what kind of restaurants do you like?

I had mentioned in another post in the scammer section that I had dropped one from my meet list and added one.   The one who wrote the above is the one that got dropped.   I expect to be in her city in the next month or so and had planned to meet her.  I don't mind a nice dinner but if eating in a normal restaurant is beneath them, then so am I.   I don't want any more dinners that cost almost as much as my airfare.

[Turboguy]

Well, I just heard back from the gal who thought normal restaurants were beneath her.  When I wrote I asked her where she would like to travel to and what she would like to see.  This was part of her answer.

I heared about museum of sex in Amsterdam (if I don't mistaken). I think it would be very excited if we go there together... ;-) What do you think,

Maybe I will put her back on my meet list.

 

[catzenmouse]

Well,  I just heard back from the gal who thought normal restaurants were  beneath her.  When I wrote I asked her where she would like to  travel to and what she would like to see.  This was part of her  answer.

[color="darkred"]I heared about museum of  sex in Amsterdam (if I don't mistaken). I think it would be very  excited if we go there together... ;-) What do you think, [/color]

Maybe I will put her back on my meet list.

Turbo,

 Just make sure she's not overly interested in the bondage section....:D

Ken

[BillyB]

BillB, you need to work a lot on your reading comprehension skills.  And after a lot of work there, you can then start working on your logic and trying to insure that your comments at least relate to what others have actually written about.

 

 Albert,

My reading comprehension skills are fine as I clearly understood the turn of events that happened. Turboguy had a concern and asked a question. I gave my thoughts. You gave your thoughts and then went on to say about men who don't subscribe to your brand of morals and values as having silly rules and they have a stupid way of thinking. Why hide it? You should have inserted my name in there with stupid. I know what you're doing. I wasn't born yesterday.

Turboguy, A woman with any brains knows the existence of sexual diseases, sex tourists, perverts, physically abusive men,. etc.... She should be showing some reservations, and excersising caution with any man she meets for the first time unless she doesn't care, doesn't have a brain or needs to fulfill her sexual desires so in essence she's not screwing you out of love but for her selfish reasons. You don't want a selfish lover. Women who do not have sex on the first night should show some physical attraction to you on the first day or move on as Leslie would say. If a RW likes you, you'll know it. Watch how she responds to your touch and see if she makes some moves such as reaching out to hold your hand, wipes your mouth after you eat, picks lint off your clothes, fix your collar, and wipes the sweat off your face with her finger. These are some of the things that happens to me in my relationship. When I go out with a woman, I am the aggressor. I make the moves and I watch to see how a woman responds. I invited my fiancee to stay overnight in my apartment the first day we met but she declined. She has a pace that satisfied me. Leslie mentioned a woman being sexual after about 4 dates. That's a good number but it doesn't neccessarily mean all out sex but the bottom line is that you need to know if she's physically attracted to you and if she isn't, then she may never be attracted to you.

Leslie mention some things about eating out and be prepared to dump a woman fast. I agree with that. The more time you waste with women who is using you, that's less time you're spending with a sincere woman who does want to be with you. The first day I met my fiancee, she was concerned with my comfort and well being. She asked if I ate anything yet since I arrived and I said "No, I don't have the proper currency and can you take me to get my money exchanged" She said "The money exchangers are closed and I will buy you dinner".

Turboguy, I have given you my opinions based on the fact you're looking for a long term relationship. If you are a playboy, My answer would be different and I would tell you women who sleep with men the first night is perfect for a man with your lifestyle. Men have given me recommendations to bars and where to go in what countries to get laid every night by different women. I don't do the bar scene, I'm not in a race to have sex with everything(one's enough) with a hole in it, and I need something more from a woman than a warm body at night satisfying my hormones. I think a lot of men will agree, sex is much better and fulfilling when you're in love. Courting a woman is not about playing a game, it's like a song and dance and when it's finished, you should have memories to last a lifetime. Think about how you need to be as a man and what you need to do to be successful in your pursuit because you're the one that has to live with your decisions and you're the one that would have to pay for an ugly divorce based on a choice in the wrong woman who cleans you out. Choose wisely.

[Turboguy]

You are right Billy, Sex is not my object.  I have had a few gals who were definately too fast and easy for me.  I brought one gal up from Starvapol to Moscow when I was there for an EC social.   I had told her that I would pay her way and get her a room of her own.  Her answer was she did not need a room of her own.  Her English was not too good.  I met her with my interpreter.   The interpreter introduced us and asked her if she had any questions for me.  Her first question was if I could still have sex.  I answered yes.  Her second question was if I thought I could still have sex in 10 years.  The interpeter said, well these days with viagra men can have sex at any age.  We went to the room and the frist thing she did was take some protection from her purse and lay it on the nightstand.  She was a nice girl but that is not the kind of gal I want.  Actually the night before was worse but I told that story here a long time ago.

I do agree you can sleep in the same bed and not have sex, I think I would have felt a little easier with a little more reserve on my gals part.  I am still not considering it a deal breaker. 

[dragonfly]

TG,

I consider you to be a very decent man.

[catzenmouse]

TG,

I consider you to be a very decent man.

Turbo, you couldn't ask for higher praise than that now could you?

Ken

[Turboguy]

No I couldn't Ken,   I appreciate the compliment Dragonfly. 

[clay]

Hello my name is clay and I am new

 

I wanted to know about the women that you have met in stravonpol.  I was planning on visiting this area of russia, and from one of your post realize that you had been there or met soem woman there.. are the woman in this place like the others that you have met?

What was your experience with dealing with the woman from stravonpol? Was she college educated, and did she have a job when you met her, or did she only say she goes to school? or university?

 

 

Clay

 

[Admin]

Hello my name is clay and I am new

I wanted to know about the women that you have met in stravonpol. I was planning on visiting this area of russia, and from one of your post realize that you had been there or met soem woman there.. are the woman in this place like the others that you have met?

What was your experience with dealing with the woman from stravonpol? Was she college educated, and did she have a job when you met her, or did she only say she goes to school? or university?

Clay

Clay,

You might want to start a NEW topic - with an appropriate title - in the 'Experienced' Forum. It will be more likely to attract attention there.

- Dan