Starting out again after 5 years with RW wife...question about IMBRA

[Bruno]

Let me guess... OJT for EOD???

Don't know your "OJT" and "EOD"...

Wiz wrote :

That is how all Northern Europeans perceived in the Med countries

  for info, i have Italian, French ( Corsica ) and Dutch blood...

Now if the thread hijackers could just get back on topic...

It was not a "Hijjack"... Wiz have evoque cold blooded people... related to me and/or your friend able to seek a new relationship fast after the end of one previous...

Ok, no more post in these topic... you can write comment for your friend... i don't care after all...

[Rvrwind]

Life is short... try to enjoy it when you can... 17 year of purgatory is very long and not healthy... was you a "monk" during these periode ?

No I wasn't & I don't expect Supernatural to be either. By all means date, have a ball, go get some. But & I stress don't go into it with the sole purpose of looking to get married. I don't care who you are or how long you were out of love before your divorce, it clouds your judgment, PERIOD! There is baggage that will surface. I agree evrybody is different.
I stayed single because I was having a ball, getting lots & didn't figure I had a reason to re-marry. I had no intentions of having more children so 35 or 65 was no never mind to me & never even entered the equation.
Life is short, enjoy it while you can but tread softly & slowly. For every 10 that make it, 200 or more fail. I'm lving down the street from one of them & there are times when it isn't pretty.

[Gator]

Supranatural,

You seem to be an upfront man and I appreciate your candor.

Personally, I believe a man coming out of a divorce needs to get back into the saddle.   At the same time, some women are not anxious to become engaged the first week.   So I see nothing wrong with a man dating such women and letting the relationship follow a natural course. 

This, I believe, is what Richard is telling you.  As an agency owner, Richard has seen many a recently divorced man hell bent on finding a beautiful RW and becoming engaged in a few days of meetings.

I have been dating RW about as long as you were married to one.  Although I have failed my objective to remarry, I have met my overall goal of personal happiness.  Part of the reason for my failure was recognizing that indeed I was in a rebound (25 years of marriage) and behaving conservatively.  Finding the right woman and getting to know her and how the two of you actually relate with each other will take time, and by then your head should be clear.  So you have my encouragement.  just ponder a lot along the way.  Good luck!

I am delighted that you are visiting the Russian "restaurant" again.  Some men with failed marriages to RW are so sick of that cuisine that they would never dine there again.  So there must be something about RW that you really enjoy if you are thinking of possibly marrying another.  And any personality traits attributed to being Russian are not insurmountable in your opinion.

It does sound as if you have some serious issues to deal with.  If not too personal, can you please answer a few questions:  How long did you know your ex-wife know before becoming engaged?  At that time, did the two of you discuss the issues that now separate you?  Was the divorce inevitable because you are two different people, something that you could not know in the beginning?  If not, who changed more in the marriage, you or her?   How will your next wife differ from your ex-wife?  Do you believe that you have to do something differently this time?

These are personal questions, and you can rightfully tell me to jump in a lake.  However, you are an excellent learning opportunity for those of us undertaking this cross-cultural romance.

[Makkin]

Hello,

  I made that glorious rebound mistake some years back and I would advise a person to stop and think.
  My experience was to get divorced and we did...We grew apart and in the end it was as if we were divorced long before we actually divorced. I hooked up with another girl and all went well. The sex was good and the communication was good and at times we talked all night and into the morning about everything and anything.
  What really happened was that I got from the second woman what I had been missing from the ex-wife for the last two years of the 8 year marriage and I was over the moon in emotional content. We actually got married and lived together for a year but in the end it was nothing more than a physcological fix for us BOTH and we realized this to our embaressment.
  We are friends today and have no real regrets but we laugh about how weird the experience was...It was as if we were looking for what we missed in previous relationship and for all our best efforts we did not realize this while it was going on....In other words we were blind to what was really happening.
  I would advise all men and women to think hard about marriage and those type things because it's gonna cost you in one way or the other if you jump into it without thinking properly.

Makkin

[timothe]

This is a good general relationship topic question.  I can't speak to supranatural directly, but I can say that I know it would be irresponsible to the other party(s) involved to offer love, affection, and better life if you are not ready to have someone in your life.  I think this question needs to be asked by each person individually. 

It's self-analysis without justification and rationalization.  I might suggest that when you do this type of self-analysis, use pen and paper.  Start with a list of the most important things in life...the things you can't do without.  Then list the things you really want in life and you are willing to do anything to get them.  Then list the things you'd like to have, but you won't sacrifice the things you already have to get them. 
Then, estimate the amount of time per week you spend on each priority.   

The most important thing to do when you write this list is to make sure the priorities you list are in the proper columns.  This is not a value judgement.  No one else will see your lists.  I know I wanted to sneak some things into priority A which were really priority C when I looked at the amount of time I spent on these priorities.  Don't be afraid to move a priority into a different category if that's where you are actually spending your time. 

I have a personal example of this.  Back in 2003, I was writing and calling my ladyfriend regularly the first time around, she was obviously a high priority.  However, I was also playing Texas Hold'em online every day to try to get into the WSOP.  Yet I had my poker priority in column C and my ladyfriend in column A.  In fact, they both belonged in column A, which is part of the reason why I didn't put up a big fight when she ended relations the first time.

A lot of the "when should I go find an FSU woman" question could be solved with a priority list because most problem relationships have very little to do with the other person.  (Most...not all)   

[supranatural]

Supranatural,

I am delighted that you are visiting the Russian "restaurant" again.  Some men with failed marriages to RW are so sick of that cuisine that they would never dine there again.  So there must be something about RW that you really enjoy if you are thinking of possibly marrying another.  And any personality traits attributed to being Russian are not insurmountable in your opinion.

It does sound as if you have some serious issues to deal with.  If not too personal, can you please answer a few questions:  How long did you know your ex-wife know before becoming engaged?  At that time, did the two of you discuss the issues that now separate you?  Was the divorce inevitable because you are two different people, something that you could not know in the beginning?  If not, who changed more in the marriage, you or her?   How will your next wife differ from your ex-wife?  Do you believe that you have to do something differently this time?

These are personal questions, and you can rightfully tell me to jump in a lake.  However, you are an excellent learning opportunity for those of us undertaking this cross-cultural romance.

Hi Gator,

Yes I've had my taste of Russian cuisine and I have to agree with jb on a prior thread I found, it isn't for everyone.  I've seen the good and the bad, and like him, 95% of the time it's great, better than any relationship I've had with an AW.  The other 5% of the time, well nothing is 100% perfect.  My wife has that streak of Russian stubborness, was strong willed, but at the same time could be as tender and affectionate as anyone I've ever seen. 

Now as far as why we are divorcing, in many ways I'm still learning more each day (we keep in contact and talk a lot still - she professes that I am still her best friend) and part of it I think can be answered by quoting Freud who after studying human psychology for most of life said the one question he could not answer was "What do women want?"  I can say with a fair amount of certainty it was not due to cross cultural differences at all nor communication (she did not speak English when we met but her English is near flawless now), nor was it money (upgrading) as I just finished building a very expensive home on the Gulf Coast of Florida for us (appraised value at time of construction > $800K) and I make a very comfortable living in the IT field (we were stretching out budget a bit).  I will talk more about this at a later date if I'm comfortable with sharing more.

To answer some of your questions:

1) We had been writing letters for 7 months before I travelled to visit her.  We spoke on the phone twice a week on average, less in the beginning, more at the end, with interpretors I hired.  We got engaged at the end of 10 days.  I came to visit her again for 10 days 4 months later, in the meantime we spoke on the phone every day for 30-90 minutes, wrote letters, and she took English lessons.  She came over 2 months after my second visit, and we married 85+ days into our K-1.
2) The issues that separated us were not discussed nor were they apparent to me (or apparently to her).  She said that during our separation (I was in FL for 6 months working and overseeing the construction of our to-be new house) that a month or so before the end she started enjoying her newfound freedom/life (she'd made many new friends at a Russian church and was spending a lot of time with them).  Before someone pipes in that I kept her from making friends, she was always free to make friends, go where she wanted (she could drive and had her own car) etc., and she had Russian friends, only the ones she'd made while I was around she did not think too highly of them but hung out with them for lack of any other Russian people to hang out with.  These new friends are from what I see are more to her taste - and these came about because I introduced her to a Russian girl I met at the bank who went to this church.

She says that somewhere along the way she fell out of love with me, and she wants to be with someone with the kind of passion we had at the beginning.  Yes, I'm well aware that most marriages around the 5-7 year mark enter a different phase, one that is less passionate than at the beginning, and apparently she believes that a relationship can be hot and passionate for an entire lifetime without waning and having ups and downs.  I disagree but that's neither here nor there.

3) Was the divorce inevitable?  Hard to say because I don't know the whole story yet.  I'm sure as time goes on I will know more and then I might be able to answer it better.  For now it's probably because she changed during our separation.  She tells me that if we had not separated for this time that we would most likely still be together.  Some people think that she has someone on the side (i.e., a b/f) but I don't think that is the case here.  She is living in rented upstairs of a house and is living paycheck to paycheck and barely able to make ends meet, not an upgrade at all from what she had with me.
4) In many ways I would want my next wife to be a lot like my ex-wife.  My soon-to-be ex-wife got along great with my mother, loved my family, was generous in many ways, almost to a fault, loved children, and loved me while we were together.  She was charming, intelligent, willful, determined, etc. 
5) I may do things a little differently in the relationship but I think my initial approach was sound as I don't believe my wife is a gold card w****.   I looked out for red flags and there were no red flags, not during our initial courtship nor during our 5 years of marriage.

[Makkin]

Hey Supernatural,

  I want to wish you good times and real progress in your quest. You seem like a solid man with a good head on your shoulders. You are right in going this YOUR way and also maybe learning as much as you can. If you did not want to learn you would not be here right?
  Sometimes the people here jump to conclusions and this includes myself but all in all most of the people are here to help and advise with a friendly attitude. Please feel free to ask and also tell things to help us learn as well as help you learn.

Your Friend,

Makkin

[happiness]

Supernatural,

  I'm currently in the divorce process from my RW, so I can really identify with what you are going through.  Thank you for sharing your experience and I hope you do choose to pursue a new relationship.  Here is a book that is really helping me:

http://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Relationship-Books-Divorce-Beyond/dp/1886230692/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1362140-3868819?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175394373&sr=1-1

  One important point that this book makes is that your next relationship after a divorce is likely to be a transitional, short-term relationship.  Since I got engaged during my first trip to meet my RW (like you), I know that I need to be extra cautious and live in the present during my next relationship.  Don't make future plans that may never come true.  Prepare for a graceful exit from the next relationship if things start to go bad.

  Maybe you could start by dating a Russian girl who is already in the USA?  Try this web site:

http://love.mail.ru/

  You can also search on Match.com for women who speak Russian (scroll down to the Languages section):

http://www.match.com/search/search.aspx?lid=78

  I wish you the best of luck!  I hope you will post a success story here next year!

[TwoBitBandit]

You can also search on Match.com for women who speak Russian (scroll down to the Languages section):
http://www.match.com/search/search.aspx?lid=78

I've tried this myself, and found out that a large fraction of the RW on match.com are still in Russia even if they list a US city.  Match.com has had some problems with RW who try to scam the unsuspecting AM on match.com who don't know about common RW scams (like "my aunt is in the hospital, can you send $500?"), so they make it hard for RW in Russia to join.

I think it's a good idea.  Just be on the lookout for RW who aren't in America.  My recommendation: get their phone number and call them early to be sure they're in the US.

[Rim]

Supernatural,
Here is a list of resources that I've found to be newb friendly.

Khersongirls.com

Volgagirl.com

Pavel in Kiev isn't the cheapest you can find but he will be working for you and not some other interest or agenda. http://www.yourukraineguide.com.ua/

Read the trips forum on this website and when you read what you believe is a successful trip report then mimic the trip for yourself.

[Son of Clyde]

I am hardly one to give advice, so take it with a grain of salt.

People have needs and if your marriage has been less than fulfilling I see nothing wrong with getting back in the dating scene.

My only advice is, take your time.

If you want to visit some RW just don't rush into anything. If the woman cares for you she will wait for you as long as it takes. There are women who will give the impression they care for you but will not be willing to wait a year or two. These women may be good women but not so good for you.

You have options and you have advice from others.

When I started this process I could see the years ebbing away and I wanted to have someone to share my life with. It has worked out but not without many struggles. I will report back in 3 years and 4 months, when I have been married for 5 years. Anyrhing can happen in this time but also anything can happen in the first two months of marriage.

[dwfunk]

Okay looks like I'm going to be back in this venture again but not sure if this should have been in the Starting Out section or not (I'm experienced but starting out again lol).  My question is this - I'm looking at various ways to start again, and I'm probably going to follow in the footsteps of BillyB (not exactly but basically WMV?).  So...I'm looking at various sites, including Bride.ru, My Dear Woman, Elena's Models, etc.  I've noticed on some sites that they state that US Citizens cannot get email addresses or addresses any longer and will have to correspond through the agency.  But...I've not seen that for instance with Bride.ru.  It was my impression that the IMBRA really affects correspondence only with agencies that are either US based or owned by US citizens (please correct me if I'm wrong as I really did not pay attention to the IMBRA since I was happily married at the time and it didn't really seem to be anything to concern me...).  Can anyone clarifiy this for me?

Stay away from any agency that claims due to IMBRA you have to have all of your correspondence through the agency.  It's blatantly not true.  You do have to "certify" as to your criminal past if any, and different sites have different ways of doing this.  My personal experience is with Elena's Models, I highly recommend them.  I do know for a fact that the Moscow affiliate does background checks on the girls and verifies the girls information.


------
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
УЛ. КОНЕНКОВА
16th World Spacemodeling Championships

[Rvrwind]

I do know for a fact that the Moscow affiliate does background checks on the girls and verifies the girls information.

Sometimes a background check isn't enough. It helps to know your ladies.
2 out of the 3 I dated at Elena's Models asked me for money on the first & last date!!! They never asked in letters but waited till I met them when I was in Moscow. Needless to say the dates were cut abruptly short!

[supranatural]

RVR, just curious, the women that asked you for money, did you correspond with them for several months before meeting them or did you just meet them without corresponding?

[Rvrwind]

I correspnded for about 3 months before meeting them. I never felt long correpndence was of great benifit. I tell guys 3 months & then get on a plane!
The one lady wa a great disappointment for several reasons not the least of which was gorgeous, she had a dog that was a twin to mine & she had long natural blonde hair to her knees & was 5'2" tall!! A real babe.I was really looking forward to meeting her & in her letters all was well & we had much in common. When we finally met & went for coffee at a small coffee shop in the center of Moscow I didn't even get through my first cup of coffee before she asked me for money. I was almost thinking she was a pro as she didn't mince words but got right to it. Very disappointing.

[dwfunk]

Sometimes a background check isn't enough. It helps to know your ladies.
2 out of the 3 I dated at Elena's Models asked me for money on the first & last date!!! They never asked in letters but waited till I met them when I was in Moscow. Needless to say the dates were cut abruptly short!

shucks!  there was at least one more! 


How is the drive to Moscow?  Is it the E105?

BTW, we 'waved' at ya'll when we went through Tver on the train, but I think ya'll were sleeping . . .


------
David & Natalia
Republic of Texas/Moscow, Russia
УЛ. КОНЕНКОВА
16th World Spacemodeling Championships