Starting out again after 5 years with RW wife...question about IMBRA

[supranatural]

Okay looks like I'm going to be back in this venture again but not sure if this should have been in the Starting Out section or not (I'm experienced but starting out again lol).  My question is this - I'm looking at various ways to start again, and I'm probably going to follow in the footsteps of BillyB (not exactly but basically WMV?).  So...I'm looking at various sites, including Bride.ru, My Dear Woman, Elena's Models, etc.  I've noticed on some sites that they state that US Citizens cannot get email addresses or addresses any longer and will have to correspond through the agency.  But...I've not seen that for instance with Bride.ru.  It was my impression that the IMBRA really affects correspondence only with agencies that are either US based or owned by US citizens (please correct me if I'm wrong as I really did not pay attention to the IMBRA since I was happily married at the time and it didn't really seem to be anything to concern me...).  Can anyone clarifiy this for me?

[Rvrwind]

My first thought is Imbra hasn't been out that long & if you were happily married when it came out then you are therefore recently divorced.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
However if I am right, I suggest you relax, you are in no way ready to get backon this horse yet. After divorce one should wait at least two years to get over it before venturing into marriage again, whether that be locally or abroad I would say the same thing.
You may think your ready, but trust me, you are not. One needs time to take out the baggage.
Not trying to rip you or anything just making you aware of the situation & the reality, BTDT.

[supranatural]

Hi, I appreciate the advice and I do respect your postings on the board, however, I've thought about this enough and I'd rather get back into this sooner rather than later.  Some people get over things faster than others.  I've dealt with the ending of long term relationships before and I know myself pretty well.  Again thanks but I'm a big boy now .

[Admin]

Okay looks like I'm going to be back in this venture again but not sure if this should have been in the Starting Out section or not (I'm experienced but starting out again lol).  My question is this - I'm looking at various ways to start again, and I'm probably going to follow in the footsteps of BillyB (not exactly but basically WMV?).  So...I'm looking at various sites, including Bride.ru, My Dear Woman, Elena's Models, etc.  I've noticed on some sites that they state that US Citizens cannot get email addresses or addresses any longer and will have to correspond through the agency.  But...I've not seen that for instance with Bride.ru.  It was my impression that the IMBRA really affects correspondence only with agencies that are either US based or owned by US citizens (please correct me if I'm wrong as I really did not pay attention to the IMBRA since I was happily married at the time and it didn't really seem to be anything to concern me...).  Can anyone clarifiy this for me?

The effects of IMBRA, in practical terms, are still being learned. To this point, there is no known enforcement by the Justice Department for non-compliance - although that is likely to change in the near-term now that the only active challenge to IMBRA was defeated just yesterday.

The major effects of IMBRA are to impose severe penalties on any US-based "International Marriage Broker" who does not comply with their regulatory requirements. Those requirements are:

* Restriction of information about the girls in their agency - i.e, they cannot provide you information unless, and until, you provide compulsory information, and
* Obligation to collect information from each client and pass it to the lady - and gain their written approval BEFORE personal contact information may be provided.

On the face, this is the real imposition - however, there are some implications to the above which are pretty chilling when closely examined.

In any case, Elena's Models and Bride.ru are, I believe, both located in countries outside the US, hence, they would not be subject to the penalties in IMBRA.

There are some additional aspects to IMBRA which requires information to be provided to your fiance at time of the interview, if she does not have it prior. She will also be asked if she utilized the services of an IMB. In theory, the interviewer could deny the visa if there is no IMBRA compliance, regardless of whether the IMB which had the obligation to comply is based in the US or overseas. My guess is this will NOT be the enforcement mechanism utilized - although it is a distinct possibility.

For a guy new to the process and seeking contacts through agencies - your best bet is probably to identify an agency with their HQ overseas - although this brings *other* risks. The other option is to work with agencies who are exempted from IMBRA. You mentioned Elena's Models - and another is RussianEuro - both based in Australia. Check out the RWD Links for other possibilities.

Good Luck!

- Dan

[START2]

Richard, you gave him good advice but some just don't have patience to do the right thing especially when another innocent party is concerned. Read his last sentence. Kinda says it all.

[Rvrwind]

Read his last sentence. Kinda says it all

Yes, I noticed that.
I often find it funny when I get dismissed out of hand by guys like this. They, I think, believe they know more than I, but had he searched he may have found I have forgotten more than he knows. Being in this business & seeing the things I've seen I've seen plenty of guys courting disaster & now there is another one coming down the chute.

I've dealt with the ending of long term relationships before

This statement I find very telling as well. Perhaps one should take agood hard look at ones self to try & figure out why they all ended. I don't believe for one second that it was the womans fault in every case. I was divorced for 17 years before I remarried & seperated from my last common law for more than 5 years.
Time is needed & should be taken. I've seen too many crash & burns to advise otherwise.
Welcome to the board none the less.

[Bruno]

Richard,

I have start seek new ladies the day after my divorce  ... and a few month later, after finding the local one not interesting ( good only for one night or week-end encounter but no one of them was wishing a long term relationship ), i have seek again around the world... Now, a few year after, i have find a lady, not yet married or living together...

Some guy wish start a new familly and don't wish wait until they are too much old... myself, i wish children... if i have wait 17 year after my divorce, i will be over 55 yo for start a new search... i wish be able to see grow up my child... be a father for them and not a grand father...

Life is short... try to enjoy it when you can... 17 year of purgatory is very long and not healthy... was you a "monk" during these periode ?

[wiz]

Time is needed & should be taken. I've seen too many crash & burns to advise otherwise.

Absoletely right with your above comment and I agree.

[PeeWee]

My first thought is Imbra hasn't been out that long & if you were happily married when it came out then you are therefore recently divorced.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
However if I am right, I suggest you relax, you are in no way ready to get backon this horse yet. After divorce one should wait at least two years to get over it before venturing into marriage again, whether that be locally or abroad I would say the same thing.
You may think your ready, but trust me, you are not. One needs time to take out the baggage.
Not trying to rip you or anything just making you aware of the situation & the reality, BTDT.

Is there a 2 year rule somewhere? Why two years? It may take him 2 years to meet someone worthy of his attention so why not start looking for her now? Everyone is different. Take my uncle for example. His wife of 40 or so years died. Six months passes and he has a new wife to who he as been married for 5 years now. I would not wait 2 years following either a death or a divorce.

Peewee

[Makkin]

Hello,

  Richard is correct on the rebound thing but maybe sometimes a person has been apart from his divorce even before the divorce. It may be that the poster has been divorced recently but mentally he's been divorced longer than the date of the divorce?
 

  Makkin

[Bruno]

  Richard is correct on the rebound thing but maybe sometimes a person has been apart from his divorce even before the divorce. It may be that the poster has been divorced recently but mentally he's been divorced longer than the date of the divorce?

Why some time is needed ? Past is past and nothing can be changed... cry on the past is loosing time... life is like a book... when you finish a charpter, you don't wait some year for read the next one... you simply continue to read... and if it a interesting book, you read it until the ned, without pause...

I think that in FSU, people think in a similar way... once something is finish, it is finish... it is the past and no need to cry on it... in a few case, some in FSU start a new chapter before the previous one is finish...

If something don't work, try again... not tomorrow, not in one year, not in 10 year... today...

Several people speak of "baggage" from the past... what is the need to take some "baggage"... people who cannot forget the past are these who need time... for the other, let go and enjoy your present time, seeking for a better future... tomorrow, a truck can ride on you, you will have enjoy you last day !

[ScottinCrimea]

yup! gotta get back on that horse!

[Jet]

Is there a 2 year rule somewhere? Why two years?

Most sources I've seen say 1 year MINIMUM for men and 6 months minimum for women (the difference is because guys are wired differently than ladies). I think it's good advice, I've seen a lot of local guys singing the same song as Supernatural and Bruno, only to crash and burn hard and fast because their mind was just not as capable of leaving the past in the past as they believed it was. A guy who heads back into the dating scene with the explicitly stated main purpose of "getting married sooner rather than later" just seems to be putting the cart WAYYYYY out in front of the horse!

 :selfharm:

[supranatural]

Richard, the thing is you don't know my particular situation nor do you know me.  For one thing, I did not place blame on my wife, nor on myself.  We had a happy marriage but during our 6 month separation while I supervised the building of a new home for us on the Gulf Coast of FL she says she fell out of love and enjoyed her new friends and freedom.  She did not want to try counseling, etc. so I've let it go.  No point in trying to pursue something when the other person has no interest.  We are going through an amicable divorce.  My prior relationship (7 years ) ended because my fiancee had serious emotional issues arising from being sexually abused as a child - led her to numerou incidents of infidelity which to this day she admits the failing of the relationship was her fault not mine. 

I also *hate* generalities.  1 year for men, 6 months for women.  Or the woman was at fault.  Or the man was at fault.  Divorces have 50% chance for *every* marriage.  RW are MOB's.  All RW are only looking for a green card.  Well fortunately everyone is individual and different, we are not all cut from the same mold or else it be a pretty boring world.

As one person said, it may take me a year or more to find the right person.  Only *I* can tell if I'm ready or not.  Not you, or Peewee, or whomever.  As one person said, maybe I don't want to spend 4 years on this before I start a family.   I'm not looking to get married sooner rather than later, I'm looking to get married when I find the right person.  Do *any* of us date just for fun these days?  I'd say for most the answer is no since the implicit purpose is to find the the right person and get married.  We are all dating to get married here.

As far as being capable of leaving the past, again we are individuals.  I've dealt with a lot of difficult situations in the past, emotional and otherwise, and the one thing I've always been able to do is move on with my life quickly without sitting around for a long time moping and feeling sorry for myself.  I held my family together after my father died unexpectedly, I held my family together when my parents got divorced, you don't know my capabilities in the least.  I'm wired differently than you, and you are wired differenlty from me.  Don't judge me unless you know me.

[MaxxumUSA]

Super,

First...  about the waiting...  Umm...  I think if you are ready, then go for it.  It seems that you were in a marriage that you wanted however your wife did not want after some time.  But you still want a good wife to share your life with.  Why wait to try and find that one woman who will stick with you thick and thin?  If you're ready, you're ready.  If you're not, then you will spend a lot of time and money to find this out.

Any healthy woman you tell about your recent divorce will test you to find out if you are ready.

As for the IMBRA, from what my lawyer explains to me, it is more about divulgance of your past then anything.  If you have some issues such as dwi or even DV charges, this does not automatically prevent you from pursuing a woman.  This means you must divulge your criminal past to your fiancee.  I'm no lawyer but this is basically what I was told.

Maybe Wil3 can give some input?  I think he's a lawyer.

Good luck.  And btw I used Elenas Models and found my Elena throught that site.

- Dave

[William3rd]

I agree with the proposition that IMBRA is a divulging of your past criminal history. You need 3 dui/drug convictions to even be disclosing that issue to USCIS via the 129F. You can even be convicted of DV (it is only a deal breaker for waiver cases). The general statement that a USC is welcome to be a criminal still stands.

However, these are all matters that should be divulged to a prospective mate before you marry anyway.

[jb]

Note to the other readers, as far as I know, IMBRA is not a relevant issue with supranatural.  The only thing he has to worry about is another lady would be his second K-1.  He has not, to my knowledge, ever had a DV, or any other criminal charge, filed against him.  He's pretty much a straight arrow kind of guy.

supranatural,

Since we are friends off-board, my thoughts were to say nothing here, (but I don't want to see you get beat up too badly), however I will say the guys are giving you some pretty good advice.  You might want to let the dust settle a little bit after the divorce is final before trekking back to the FSU for another lady.

There are a few other reasons I say this, first and foremost is to get the situation squared away with the step-son.  He's at a very impressionable age and if he sees you heading off in search for another woman before the chapter with his mom is done,,, well, he might get the idea that adults think little people are disposable.  He has already lost respect for his mother for her role in the divorce and he would probably be devastated if you decide to leave him by the wayside as well.  One other thing does bother us here, at the time we met about 6 years ago, the impression we got was that you and Anna were anxious to start a common family.  When I told Etna that it never happened, she was surprised.  After she mulled that over for a bit she said some very uncomplimentary things about Anna.

I also understand where you are coming from, that is,,, about the need to get back into the chase ASAP.  Whatever you decide to do you can be assured, we wish you only the best solution to the bad situation you now find yourself in.

[wiz]

Why some time is needed ? Past is past and nothing can be changed... cry on the past is loosing time... life is like a book... when you finish a chapter, you don't wait some year for read the next one... you simply continue to read... and if it a interesting book, you read it until the end, without pause...

I think that in FSU, people think in a similar way... once something is finish, it is finish... it is the past and no need to cry on it... in a few case, some in FSU start a new chapter before the previous one is finish...

If something don't work, try again... not tomorrow, not in one year, not in 10 year... today...

Several people speak of "baggage" from the past... what is the need to take some "baggage"... people who cannot forget the past are these who need time... for the other, let go and enjoy your present time, seeking for a better future... tomorrow, a truck can ride on you, you will have enjoy you last day !

Obviously your relationships were/are shallow with no depth. Life is not a book to go to the next chapter without clearing your emotions and feelings. Just look around to see the number of failures of any new relationships that start on the rebound, which you so vigorously advocate. Of course I am a Mediterranean person and you are a cold Northern European personality which fits with the unemotional and undemonstartive attitude of the Russian people.

What you describe is the attitude to life and relationships we, most men have, when we are 20-30 yrs old, jumping from one bed to another the same day or next day.

A successfull happy relationship has to have deep feeling for eachother and before you start telling me that I do not know what I am talking about I can advise you that in my life I had 2 longterm happy relationships for 10 and 20 yrs respectively. The fact that after so many years we grew apart and we divorced or split, makes no difference.

No I am not an angel, a shringing violet nor I am bragging or try to advocate morality and I can assure you I had too many encounters that I care to remember in my life and my flag pole probaly has all the European flags flying including the American and some of the FSU flags.

Yes I am romantic and of course I develop love feelings for the woman I am involved with otherwises our relationship is meaningless and nothing more than a sexual encounter which sometimes last longer than one day.

[jb]

There are issues at work in this marriage/divorce that only supranatural is fully aware of, and I am only partly aware of.

I would strongly advise folks to withhold judgement until he decides to reveal more information regarding the history of the relationship.

[Bruno]

Of course I am a Mediterranean person and you are a cold Northern European personality which fits with the unemotional and undemonstartive attitude of the Russian people.

First, i have not a cold Northern European personality, i have my own personality...

Yes, maybe i can seem cold... and i can assure you that i was not so when i was younger... i have know my share of bad thing in live, who have lead to stress, health problem, etc... not suffering from the past is nothing "cold"... it is a natural method for protect myself...

Don't forget, i have work in the Navy and situation of life have make me cold... when i have start in 1988, we was 15 collegue in the same speciality... after 9 year, already 7 was dead... some of these dead was directly beyond my eyes... now that i have quit, one more is dead... and one is without legs and with only one hand...

Same thing with Russian... the not easy life have make them more "cold"... but don't worry... when the situation is good, they can be warm like a south vulcano...

It will surprise you but i am a romantic too...

about "look around to see the number of failures of any new relationships that start on the rebound", i have just read some stat... second marriage have more change to keep longer that first, specialy if the lady is over 25 year old, and if the previous relationship was enough long... what have surprise me is that couple who have life together a long periode before marriage have more chance to know a divorce !!!

In any case, make what is good for YOU... here, i explain my opinion only... my opinion is only working for me... we are all individual with own character and personality...

You have not yet break fully all the bridge with your russian girlfriend... so, she is not yet your past... she is a ghost in your present... once the relationship fully stopped, you will see that it is really easy to start again...

[Bruno]

There are issues at work in this marriage/divorce that only supranatural is fully aware of, and I am only partly aware of.

I would strongly advise folks to withhold judgement until he decides to reveal more information regarding the history of the relationship.

Jb, we make judgement on what we read... yourself, how much time have you not ask more information to a newbies...

In any case, supranatural is not obligate to reveal more information... he have right to his private life too...

Maybe time for rest a little on these subject and simply say "Welcome Supranatural".

[wiz]

First, i have not a cold Northern European personality, i have my own personality...

That is how all Northern Europeans perceived in the Med countries and Yes there are huge differences in attitude and behaviour between Italian, Greek, Spanish and English, Belgian or Swedish people. looks your own comments below.

Yes, maybe i can seem cold... and i can assure you that i was not so when i was younger... i have know my share of bad thing in live, who have lead to stress, health problem, etc... not suffering from the past is nothing "cold"... it is a natural method for protect myself...

Don't forget, i have work in the Navy and situation of life have make me cold... when i have start in 1988, we was 15 colleague in the same speciality... after 9 year, already 7 was dead... some of these dead was directly beyond my eyes... now that i have quit, one more is dead... and one is without legs and with only one hand...

Same thing with Russian... the not easy life have make them more "cold"... but don't worry... when the situation is good, they can be warm like a south vulcano...

Sorry I am not aware of your personalife circumstances so I can not make any judgement.

It will surprise you but i am a romantic too...

With your comments and statistics you don't sound to me as a Romantic person......

about "look around to see the number of failures of any new relationships that start on the rebound", i have just read some stat... second marriage have more change to keep longer that first, specialy if the lady is over 25 year old, and if the previous relationship was enough long... what have surprise me is that couple who have life together a long periode before marriage have more chance to know a divorce

In any case, make what is good for YOU... here, i explain my opinion only... my opinion is only working for me... we are all individual with own character and personality...

I don't know what stats you read but I have seen many examples in my life to have an opposite opinion to your stats.

You have not yet break fully all the bridge with your Russian girlfriend... so, she is not yet your past... she is a ghost in your present... once the relationship fully stopped, you will see that it is really easy to start again...

Yes she is not out of my life completely, at the moment, because I have always ended up my relationships on friendly terms.... but soon that will happen and then I will look for other new options.

[supranatural]

Hi jb, I certainly understand your concerns.  I've taken great pains to explain things to my son and also to explain to him that whoever I end up with it will be a condition that I maintain my relationship with him as long as he wants one with me.  He is very impressionable but he also understands that life goes on as well and that Dad does not want to be alone while Mom is free to find another partner.  

I don't plan on hopping on a plane to the FSU next week or even next month.  That is months down the road but in all likelihood will be before the end of the year.  I won't be making any snap decisions about engagements or K1's this year as I will be making frequent trips back and forth.  For now I am feeling the waters out and re-educating myself on the process.

As for Wiz, wow, unemotional and undemonstrative?  I've found Russian people to be anything but that once you get to know them.  Again, some of us deal with baggage differently than others.  Women who've dated me will say that I'm romantic and I agree - but when it's time to be practical I am extremely practical.  I've done my grieving for this relationship.  A bit may remain and perhaps I'll ocassionally have a backslide but I know myself pretty well.  As the saying goes, no use crying over spilled milk.  Time to pick myself off the floor, dust myself off and get ready to get back into the saddle.  Of course I will take my time, write to multiple ladies, make multiple trips (I am fortunate enough to be able to do so...).

[SANDRO43]

i have work in the Navy and situation of life have make me cold... when i have start in 1988, we was 15 collegue in the same speciality... after 9 year, already 7 was dead... some of these dead was directly beyond my eyes... now that i have quit, one more is dead... and one is without legs and with only one hand...

Jeez Bruno, that's a pretty gruesome record for a peace-time Navy .

[jb]

when i have start in 1988, we was 15 collegue in the same speciality... after 9 year, already 7 was dead... some of these dead was directly beyond my eyes... now that i have quit, one more is dead... and one is without legs and with only one hand...

Let me guess... OJT for EOD???

Edit:  Now if the thread hijackers could just get back on topic...