The Previous Research Project - Cyberbrides in America (Planet-Love)

[Son of Clyde]

jb is gone?
Where? To Kansas maybe?
I think jb and KenC do have a lot of experience and I do listen to what they say but it does not always sound pretty.
KenC did coin my favorite phrase "the rah rah gang" which refers to Turbo, Doug, me and a few others who seem to support each other.
Positive reinforcement usually works better than clue batting if there is a less painful way to present an issue. If you don't agree discuss don't badger.

[Kuna]

This thread has gone from the RIDICULOUS to the SUBLIME.

El Rock is coaching people on how to communicate!

HAHAHAHHAHA... God this place cracks me up sometimes!

[El Rock]

So , you do have a sense of humor , we  were all begaining to wonder .

Might this be your personal attack to me , Ok then !

Have a nice day 

This thread has gone from the RIDICULOUS to the SUBLIME.

El Rock is coaching people on how to communicate!

HAHAHAHHAHA... God this place cracks me up sometimes!

[Son of Clyde]

I just backed up 3 or 4 pages to see jb's swan song.
Hopefully he will come back as I have, Maxx has and many others have. Like KenC once posted, just disappear for awhile, no need to tell anyone you are leaving. Things change. Circumstances change. JB has a volatile personality and I think he will be reading if not posting for awhile.

[jinx13]

 Ada,

  Are you learning from these debates that somehow ended up in your research project topic?  ???

 One thing is for certain, those of us involved in the endeavor of 'cross border international mail order bride dating' are NOT the same! 

 You can't stereotype us that's for sure, we come from different backgrounds, we have different motives for doing this, we have very different opinions sometimes, and we have a hard time agreeing on much. One thing we do agree on is that Russian women are worth it all!      - David

[Turboguy]

I have always tried to push for a more civil RWD, particualarly in the treatment of newbies.   Ideally if they arrive here uninformed and misguided by some of the agency advertising they have seen hopefully we can help them to learn, to grow and to succeed.  I don't think we can do that by insuliting them and belittling them, just my two cents worth.   Yes, I can understand that if the arrive here uninformed and with an attitude it gets tougher, but still I hate to see personal insults.

I have never been much of a fan of the way jb often presents his ideas, but I have also never questioned that he has a lot of knowlege and is willing to share it and that is real intent is to help people.   He sent me a PM yesterday and I won't say much about what it said other than he said he would not be back, that his goodbyes were not like SOC's.  I hope he does come back.  Even though I don't like some of the things he has said and some of the ways he says them, I still respect is opinion.

I think also there are some who think RW were made with cookie cutters.  I see as much difference in RW as I do in American men here.  If you look at SOC, jb, KenC, PG, Rock, Cats&M, Kuna, Jinx, Jet, Gator I don't see people made with cookie cutters.  I see distinct personalities and ideas.  Mostly good personalities and good ideas but all unique.  When I read trip reports like the mayan adventure and mine is see RW acting very differently.   What am I trying to say with all this?  That there are no set answers and what is right for one will be wrong for another.  Yes, there are things that can guide us and help us but no ones advice is going to be right for every situation all of the time.  For that reason we should respect everyones ideas and thoughts.  

[Photo Guy]

I posed a few specific questions for KenC and he didn't even try to
answer any of them. Instead he pretends I'm crying.  How will newbies
be helped by your avoidance of my questions, Ken? Aren't you eager to
help them anymore?
...What's up with that?  I'm not going to respond to KenC with my own
put-downs, insults, or bashing. I'm sure it would feel good to do so,
but it wouldn't be productive and it would be uncivilized.

As for jb, someone should start a new topic called,
'How jb helped me' and then it will be evident how helpful
he can be to newbies.

Another topic could be:
'How jb sh*t on me'  for those who felt he had kind of a
'negative' influence.

....Or maybe we should just let jb go in peace.

[TexasBoar]

Ada,

  Are you learning from these debates that somehow ended up in your research project topic?  ???

I can see the title now: "Dominance Rituals and Oneupmanship in Transnational Marriage-Oriented Online Communities" . . . subtitle . . . "If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes!" 

But hey, nothing like showing yer a$$ in front of company to make 'em feel to home.

~Boar

[Jooky]

You guys are bored and fighting is fun. Just admit it! 

[catzenmouse]

You hit the nail right on the head

It's his style of communication  ,he does it because he can get a way with it .
I would explain more about KenC , because he is somewhat transparent , but I believe it may be  useless .

BTW , the insults do not get any point across .
It's just little boy behavior

Rock

Good Lord! Do you ever get enough of yourself? You have done nothing here BUT insult people. Honestly I think you are worse than Anono in your pompous BS. But of course, as you have only been here a couple of weeks you don't know anything about what I mean. WLC is the board for you as your style would fit in perfectly with them.

[catzenmouse]

I find it quite interesting that folks who have come here recently can have such a strong opinion about things that happened here a year ago. Especially since the original thread is gone now. I guess there will always be some who take as gospel what is said at a point in time without knowing all that happened before.

If jb does decide to leave here you will NEVER understand all that you are missing. I, for one, will be lesser because of this void.

A long time ago it was said (and I have repeated it before) that if you can't handle jb's shoot from the hip style of posting then you cannot ever handle a RW. It was, and still is, the truth.

[catzenmouse]

I posed a few specific questions for KenC and he didn't even try to
answer any of them. Instead he pretends I'm crying.  How will newbies
be helped by your avoidance of my questions, Ken? Aren't you eager to
help them anymore?
...What's up with that?  I'm not going to respond to KenC with my own
put-downs, insults, or bashing. I'm sure it would feel good to do so,
but it wouldn't be productive and it would be uncivilized.

As for jb, someone should start a new topic called,
'How jb helped me' and then it will be evident how helpful
he can be to newbies.

Another topic could be:
'How jb sh*t on me'  for those who felt he had kind of a
'negative' influence.

....Or maybe we should just let jb go in peace.

Doug,

 You know that I like you and that I really wanted you to suceed in this but isn't this the same kind of post that you hate from KenC or jb? If you want and expect class and respect you have to show it as well. Just a thought.

[jinx13]

 I say good riddance Jb, he didn't help me, never said a word to me that could help my situation. Just look through the guys posts, check out all the unneccessary insults, what the F*** does P/G being a bus driver have to do with anything? He just loves to get under peoples skin. He does it because he's bored and loves himself, he can do no wrong.

 It's amazing how some of you continue to stick up for him when he just dumps on people again and again. You don't say "that was uncalled for Jb" you say ohhhh, he has been on this board a long time, he is a very wise man, blah blah blah. He makes very personal insults, but when someone like T/G, or P/G or me take offense to it we are overreacting, that's BS. I'll call out that kind of behavior everytime, and some of the vets here should stop defending his actions and maybe tell him to chill out and stop being an ass, maybe he would listen to you, but I doubt it.

[catzenmouse]

Or just maybe we have seen enough people come here with this kind of attitude who got called out by jb, and we did chastise him for it but in the end found out he was right on the money to begin with.

Do you have enough history to know what was said to whom? Do you have any idea of all that has come before you?

You know what, just nevermind. It is just not worth it.

[Vaughn]

WLC is the board for you as your style would fit in perfectly with them.

Since we're all slinging mud tonight, I'm certain that MySpace.com
is more his style, Ken.

PhotoGuy Doug - you came back on board a few months ago with
a thread about what you've learned - and you received a few good-natured slaps on the back. Now you seem hell-bent on pointing fingers at everyone but yourself, pal. How many times did I gently
suggest you make a second visit before you file the K-1? Talk about ignoring someone - you never once responded. As I grow older, I begin to fully understand how frustration abounds when a guy comes here looking for affirmation (not advice), then he gets some solid but hard opinion, and ignores that - and goes full steam ahead with a plan likely to fail. It was a crapshoot, Doug - admit it - and the house usually wins, not the player. You've heard all this criticism time and time again, but little of it comes across to you as "help". My own sugar-coated suggestions were, as well, fruitless....

I posed a few specific questions for KenC and he didn't even try to
answer any of them. Instead he pretends I'm crying.  How will newbies
be helped by your avoidance of my questions, Ken?

What a crock - gimme a break! I personally challenge you to be more specific - exactly what questions were avoided? The drama is just killing me - and it will kill your chances for a healthy RW/AM relationship to boot. The sensitivity issues here are almost hilarious - few self-respecting Russian or Ukrainian women will admire that trait, they want backbone - and there seems to be a lack of it here when jb or KenC posts. It's little wonder jb took a break from the merry-go-round.

Jinx, calm down. Hang around here long enough and you'll begin to appreciate the man.

[jinx13]

 Catz,

 yes, I was here for the entire P/G thread, I remember it all, even the pic of her in New York when she first arrived. I have read many of Jb's posts, I had an opinion of him before he ever attacked me, I do have a lot of knowledge about this board, I'm tired of vets talking to me like I'm a newbie.

 This isn't about Jb's knowledge, I don't doubt he has plenty of it, but I can also see that he "thinks" he knows much more than he actually does. This type of personality are the ones that can never admit when they are wrong, and when called out on something they resort to insults, like he did with P/G about his job, and the class of woman he should try for, and how he insulted my g/f in another topic that I don't want to get into again, but it was completely unneccessary, there is just no excuse for it.

 How can he be "right on the money" with an insult Ken? Explain that one to me

[catzenmouse]

jinx,

 Sorry, but you don't know it all. You were not here for the original now deleted thread that started all this. If we look at anyone's posts we can see insults to other members. We can justify it all we want to but I can't think of a single member here who has not slighted someone at some point in time.

 Is it right or pleasant? No. Is it helpful? Sometimes it is. Sometimes not. All I am trying to get across here is that there is and will be a loss here due to this latest SNAFU. It is our loss as a community. And if some can't see that then they haven't been listening anyway.

[Admin]

Most of the time, I am proud of what has been built here at RWD.

Most of the time, I eagerly promote the value of the site and the content accumulated here.

Most of the time, the one thing I believe sets RWD apart from any other similar venue, is the quality of her members.

Not tonight.

This thread makes me sad and ashamed.

I am not going to address the drivel I've seen posted here - there is just too much of it, and I am likely to go overboard in my reactions.

The thread will be locked soon. Enjoy it while you can.

- Dan

[jinx13]

 You want to know what I remember about the P/G K-1 thread?

 I remember being a newbie and I really wanted to hear P/G's everyday life, how he was dealing with it, how Larisa was doing, how she was coping, what kind of stuff they did together, but you know what we got on that thread? Guys jumping on him for every little thing, he was in constant defense mode.

 I even posted (one of my first) about how you guys should just let him post his reports and quit attacking the guy, a few other newbie's backed me up and posted the same thing. That whole thread was rediculous, it was more like a crucifiction than a topic for discussion.

 I was amazed even then how people could act like they knew everything that was going on with him and Larisa, like they were in their living room. The fact that she went back home was sad, but he learned a lot from that experience, and he did admit his mistakes, and ohhh some guys just couldn't wait to be the first to say "I told you so!"  they were waiting at the starting gate, trying to type it as fast as they can.

 I formed some early opinions about people here in that topic, and my opinions haven't changed much, I can still see the same guys doing the same type of attacks, again and again, but they are supposed to be the wise men that we should look up to, sorry but they get no respect from me. I'm sure there are many newbies today reading this stuff and forming their opinions too, the truth is you will never earn respect with speculation and insults. No you don't have to sugar coat everything either, but there is a happy medium where we can all discuss RW and learn from each other without all the name calling, insults and attacks.

[Turboguy]

While I can put my two cents worth in before this gets locked, I would like to do that.

Before I do that I will just let Jinx know he missed the real fireworks.  He should have seen the original thread.  What you saw was nothing.

I have already said, I didn't always like the way jb said things but I valued his opinion and ideas.   He was sort of fun to argue with too!

However, I have to wonder if we are any better sitting here and posting all these things about him.  They have been said a million times.  We are attacking him for attacking us.  Do we want to be another version of jb.

I think sometimes there are points where you need to just forget the past and start fresh.  PG is at that point in his search for happiness.   I agree PG was treated terrible.  I think in some ways the saying that the adversity that you face that doesn't kill you makes you a stronger person.   If we become as negative as many of us saw jb then it killed us.  I like to think of the guys here as the good guys.   I think it would be really the best thing to put all the differences of the past behind us and move ahead in a positive way and in a spirit of helpfulness.

[jinx13]

However, I have to wonder if we are any better sitting here and posting all these things about him.  They have been said a million times.  We are attacking him for attacking us.  Do we want to be another version of jb.

 true.

If we become as negative as many of us saw jb then it killed us.  I like to think of the guys here as the good guys.   I think it would be really the best thing to put all the differences of the past behind us and move ahead in a positive way and in a spirit of helpfulness.

 Well said, I second that motion 

[El Rock]

Here's something that I have noticed  , but you all will  deny any of it .

This is a new board , I believe , 2 years  old , and most os you were here  from the beginning  and have set a personal standard   for the board and will not let it change for nothing .
It's a play ground for the few  bull dogs that seem to  make post  as if they were running it , well , they are in a way .
What the board needs  is a lot more people to add to the pot of personalities  for a more balanced   view points .
In fact , there seems to be  just 5-6   people here , maybe more   that think it's their board  and they do   as they please because they are  immune   to  being chastised   by anyone  or it wont matter  because they are the originals  and  so on .

Growing pains ,

Rock

[Jet]

Rock, Photo & Jinx,

We all understand you guys have trouble w/ jb and his mannerisms. When I first became acquainted with him (long ago and far away on another forum) I thought he was to rough, too cranky, and a bit too arrogant. Kind of a cyber Archie Bunker... oddly, as much as I didn't want to agree with him, I found myself doing just that. More and more as time went by, I learned to extract the lesson out of the particular post despite the genre it was written in. Although I wouldn't present my opinions in the same way he does, many times he's saying what I'm thinking (and I suspect a lot of the other married old-timers as well). jb has bent over backwards to help Lil and I out off the board in the past, and I'm sure we weren't singled out as beneficiaries. So, if any of the three of you can come back in five years and honestly say you believe his contributions were off target, inaccurate, or devoid of merit, Lil and I will buy you dinner  because once you're in this game for that long, I'm betting you won't be able to.

[SANDRO43]

How about ending this thread, and 2006, on a more positive note (or rather ... notes ?)

[Admin]

This post serves to round out the information in the opening post.

The topic was that a 'researcher' (using that term VERY loosely) had published a rather disparaging article about American men seeking foreign wives, and she used our sister board, Planet-Love as one of her primary sources.

The article was published in 2006.

The author, Felicity Schaeffer-Grabiel (profile here -- http://feministstudies.ucsc.edu/facGrabiel.html) first appeared at Planet-Love in July of 2004.

[Note: is there something about July which attracts researchers to our boards?]

Her introductory post was made using a pseudonym, 'mestiza', and may be found here -- http://www.planet-love.com/smf/index.php/topic,8727.0.html

She later returned to Planet-Love, after it had converted to the new software, and this time, registered under her real name, 'Felicity'. She joined to address some of the comments which had erupted from her publication of the article.

Here is a link to the initial reaction to publication of her article in about April of 2006 -- http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=467.0

And here is the last of the posts by Felicity in June 2006 -- http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=605.0

I am posting this to bring all the available information together in one place.

- Dan