The Previous Research Project - Cyberbrides in America (Planet-Love)

[Admin]

*shrug*

AFAIC, the fact that the function is labeled "private message" makes it so.  You obviously disagree, and equally obviously, are not above keeping such communications on file for future debate ammo.

As for your closing question . . . the answers could range from duplicitious to prevaricating to merely forgetful, lol. 

~Boar

TB,

Most board software references PM's as "Private Messages" - HOWEVER - the developers of this board software made a very intentional decision to label them as "Personal Messages."

If you visit TAZ (theadminzone) you will see numerous raging debates over the ability and ethics of board PM systems.

Here are a few interesting facts:

We use SMF software. SMF had, at one time, a modification which enables the admin to easily access the DB to review member PM's. It was removed long ago on the grounds that such actions are unethical. That modification was for a much older version of the script and I have never seen it - only seen references to it.

One of the other boards we used, MyBB, calls PM's "Private" - but has an active 'hack' to allow the Admin to review and monitor ANY member's PM's.

The board software we previously used - and presently used by a RWD wannabe - was WowBB. WowBB has the interesting feature where an Admin can step into ANY member's account - at any time. Once there, they have complete and total access to that member's PM system including being able to send/receive/modify/delete PM's.

I recognize this is NOT exactly on-point with your issue - however, I point it out to illustrate the debate which rages over the use of PM's on these boards.

For the record, PM's on RWD are not routinely monitored. I have, on rare occasion when prompted by a member, made the investment of time and effort to access the database directly - which is the ONLY way to review other's PM's with this software. It is kludgy and time-consuming and difficult. I *only* do that when there is a compelling need - and I can count those on one hand.

To address potential abuse of the PM system, this software has a "Report to Moderator" feature - and an IgnoreList feature for members to use.

I plan to address all this in some upcoming board policy and statements.

FWIW

- Dan

[TexasBoar]

I'm the button pusher, rather than the code-cruncher, on my forum; the other admin does the heavy lifting and I handle the day-to-day.  Our rules, however, were developed over a long period of time and experience, not only on my forum, but on the sister forum, which hosts us on their private server.  I believe they actually started out on Delphi, many years ago.  Both fora use Burning Board from Wolflabs, a German product, which has some nifty plug in capabilities like portals, galleries, calendars and so forth . . . and killer graphics.

This format has some nifty features of its own, which I wish Burning Board did . . . our ignore buttons, simply put, just flat don't work.  We don't know why. 

My perspective on fora in general is that they are rather like a large cocktail party of sorts . . . you have various conversations going on in the same room, but every once in awhile, someone feels the need to pull an individual partygoer off to one side and ask for clarification, or share something they'd rather not announce to the whole room, for whatever reason.  Such messages can be forwarded, if they're being used to harass someone . . . in my years there, however, NO ONE has ever felt the need to forward one to me.  I am able to track someone's PM activity, but would need to ask my co-admin for the actual server keys to access actual content.  Another situation the need for which has not arisen . . .

Frequently, however, I do have to tell squabbling parties to settle it via PM, rather than on the open board . . . generally, this is done only when debates devolve from issues into personal attacks.  But if the privacy of PMs were not held sacred, the option would not exist for us. 

We're a fractious, opinionated, and strongwilled crew of folks, too. 

~Boar

[Photo Guy]

KenC,
When I sent you that personal message, it was to make amends, and to
find out if you agreed with Anono's poor assessment.

So when you told me in a PM that she had a nice bod, I was twisting your arm? ..LOL
I had 'cornered' you into telling me that?  Why did you post at RWD, saying that
I had 'cornered you'? It's absurd. Instead of telling me she had a nice bod and then
posting that I had basically intimidated you into saying that, -why not just reply in
a PM that she wasn't your type?  I am sorry you felt 'cornered'. I didn't
realize you were that easily intimidated. That was certainly not the point
of that PM to you.  Evidently, who you are in PMs is different from who you
are in a public forum.

Ken, I don't care what you think of Larisa. Forget it.
As for your quest to counter my 'bad advice', I ask you now -where do you see me
giving bad advice in THIS present TOPIC?  Or is it your thinking that ANYTHING I post
should be 'countered' for the benefit of newbies?

IN THIS TOPIC, I have reacted to jb's mischaracterizations. It's that simple.

...and I never said I couldn't afford the time and money for trips to the FSU.
(I think you were probably reading jb's assumptions about my career)

[Bruno]

bruno i could not follow what you were saying sorry.

Don't worry, i cannot follow myself... i was really tired yesterday and make a lot of gramatical and typo error...

In short, i have wish say that you need to build your own opinion... not need to use the recept from someone other... Not sure that the Turbo method is good since he have need a lot of year for find his bride... and it is not because you don't like JB that he cannot give some good advice...

[KenC]

Photo,
You are an insecure child like man that needs affirmation from others that the fantasy world that you have created in your mind is wonderful.  Your over zealous romanticism of the facts leads you to imaginary conclusions that have no resemblance to reality.  You have missed your calling by driving the bus; you should be writing Harlequin novels. (Found in the fiction section of course)  You are so desperate to be loved that you will accept even some twisted 89 day version of attention from a stranger as the real thing.  I certainly do not respect or believe much of anything you write as I live in the real world.

I feel sad for you though.  I can't help but think how lonely a man with your romantic capacity must feel with no outlet for his emotions.  I sincerely hope that you find that one lucky girl out there that will be the benefactor of all the love and romance you have  in your heart.  Just keep it real next time.
KenC

[smsmsmsm]

Hi Dan,

KenC suggested to have a formal discussions on core issues. You mentioned about formal debates. I am just offering some observations. I am not claiming to be an expert in formal debates. Just some humble opinions.

One of the thing I notice is the format of the narrative. The four of them have been speaking to each other. For example, "you KenC said this" or "P/G, I feel sorry for you." It is understandable since this whole thing has become very personal and emotional for all. I am wondering, if they agree to have formal debates, they should delete the "you" in constructing the narrative. We can allow people to say "I." For example, I believe, I think, my opinion is this...... However, when one refers to other side, instead of using "you" directly, one use a third person format or more neutralized sentence. For example, one uses "the pointed that has been raised here" or "based on the experiences mentioned." I think using this type of narrative or language can neutralize the emotions involved. I believe all four want this discussion to be educational to all members here. Using neutral language might help the discussion stay focused.

The second thing is also related to the use of language. All four should refrain from using inflamatory language. For example, they can refrain from using "you are stupid, ludicrous, and wrong." Instead, they can say "the argument that has been presented is problematic because....., or the opinions are not based on empirical evidence since......"

This is just my two cents. Again, humble ones.

Ada   

[IAmZon]

What you suggest is as much civility as academic method.  And, yes, total content of the board would be best served if all adhered to the highest level.

Some of the circumstances are real and emotionally sensitive. it is impossible for the process to NOT degenerate rapidly once certain triggers are pulled.

[Photo Guy]

I have been defending myself against false accusations.

If I am being called overly 'romantic' or too much of an idealist,
I would like these claims to be substantiated by facts.
If I am being called 'delusional', I would like to debate that also.
What is the factual evidence?

If her status as a 'shop girl' is a negative thing, then I'd like to
hear the elaborate rationale for that idea.

If I allegedly can't afford to travel to the FSU, quote me the
hard evidence. (I've been there twice- am I in the 'poorhouse' now?)


Why is it so controversial to disagree with personal put-downs?
Looking at the posts, I'd say the ratio is about 5 to 1 against me.
I can substantiate that claim.

How can someone who does not know me or Larisa, reach the
conclusion that I am too delusional or too romantic about
the relationship?  It seems to me, it serves the purpose of
undermining anything I post, any valid points that I make.

The idea that I am 'desperate'- That opinion is based on what information?

[Photo Guy]

Rivardco,
I completely agree. I have been asking for a higher degree of civility since
I became a member.  ...Certain members won't let it happen.

[El Rock]

KenC

You could always get your own message board and  call it
"KenCpersonalattacks.com "
Where you could bash and  throw out  anything  you wanta  with no  backlash  form the moderators , because you would be the only moderator
of your own message board .

And I have been warned for my actions ?
Now , that is really funny .

Rock

Photo,
You are an insecure child like man that needs affirmation from others that the fantasy world that you have created in your mind is wonderful.  Your over zealous romanticism of the facts leads you to imaginary conclusions that have no resemblance to reality.  You have missed your calling by driving the bus; you should be writing Harlequin novels. (Found in the fiction section of course)  You are so desperate to be loved that you will accept even some twisted 89 day version of attention from a stranger as the real thing.  I certainly do not respect or believe much of anything you write as I live in the real world.

I feel sad for you though.  I can't help but think how lonely a man with your romantic capacity must feel with no outlet for his emotions.  I sincerely hope that you find that one lucky girl out there that will be the benefactor of all the love and romance you have  in your heart.  Just keep it real next time.
KenC

[El Rock]

It's because they  can't get by with  talking like this  to any one in person  in their comunity , to their face , so , they come here where they are protected my  fake names .
Generally  , these are people who get beat up alot  and need a place to vent
where they are protected .

Rivardco,
I completely agree. I have been asking for a higher degree of civility since
I became a member.  ...Certain members won't let it happen.

[Son of Clyde]

KenC and a member named Facetrock went at me for days when my wife first arrived over some things I had posted.

I was dealing with some extreme stress at the time and it was not what I needed from a board that was supposed to provide support.

I, like Photoguy, was never married before and I had no frame of reference to start from.

KenC I disagree that I was posting issues that all married men have had to deal with before. All married men are not married to Russian women.

I chose to forget about this and start over even though I never thought it was right for KenC to post my PM's to the board.

I attacked KenC in PM's because I felt like I was being attacked by certain people on the board. Not something to be proud of but I thought a PM was a "private" message like 90% of the other members thought.

Ken, fair is fair I think Dan has called jb down on many things he has said but never has he said anything to you on the board? You and jb have made remarks that belittle Doug and I don't particularly like to see this on RWD.

Dan, why have you said things to jb but never to KenC? Is Ken protected as being an adviser who helped set up the board?

[Turboguy]

The second thing is also related to the use of language. All four should refrain from using inflamatory language. For example, they can refrain from using "you are stupid, ludicrous, and wrong." Instead, they can say "the argument that has been presented is problematic because....., or the opinions are not based on empirical evidence since......"

This is just my two cents. Again, humble ones.

Ada   

I agree with everything you said.  If you can accomplish the above for an entire thread I will vote for you for President.

[Photo Guy]

Ada, yes, your idea makes sense to me too.  It's fair and reasonable.

[Mod1]

No one has protected status. Never have, never will.

There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that the membership in general is not privy to. Just because you, as members, do not see other members being called on their behavior or posts does not mean that it does not happen.

Just an FYI

[Mod1]

KenC

You could always get your own message board and  call it
"KenCpersonalattacks.com "
Where you could bash and  throw out  anything  you wanta  with no  backlash  form the moderators , because you would be the only moderator
of your own message board .

And I have been warned for my actions ?
Now , that is really funny .

Rock

No, El Rock, it is not funny. Why not try to post something that is of benefit to the community? Why not post about your experiences? You've only been here a couple of weeks and most of your posts have been derogatory in one way or another. Perhaps it would be a nice change to try something different. We've already been through this enough don't you think?

[jinx13]

Wow, I missed a lot in the last few days, geez don't you guys even take a break from RWD during the holiday's? 

 Jb is gone? There truly is a God!    I know, I know, I will get slammed by some of the RWD faithful, because supposedly he is the wisest man in the land, Ken Catzenmouse even says " You are one of the main reasons that all of us are able to continue to move forward and be successful. "   Total BS if you ask me, he is a very negative influence on the board, and can actually hinder some newbies success with his know it all attitude and personal insults about the women we are pursuing. I just hate when people think they understand everything about a situation when they were never there, they are not in your head, nor can they read the minds of RW.

 Yes, experience helps, and most of us are glad to learn from those that have "been there, done that" but not every situation is the same, we may find common ground on certain issues, and share our collective knowledge, but most of what is said here areOPINIONS not total, complete, unarguable facts.

 I see RWD as a place where we go to share experiences, and say oh yeah I was in this situation and this is what I did, or maybe I can help you. NOT you are an idiot for doing this or that, I have been married so and so years, I know what I'm talking about, and you don't have a clue. That's not constructive behavior and only invites flame wars and endless bickering on the board that turns off newbies (like Joty)

 Is it "interesting" to have board members that argue for the sake of argument, and throw out insults to get a reaction? I don't think so. I think many of us here can relate to Photo Guy and the BS he had to put up with from certain members. If he made mistakes at least he admitted them, and he shared all of his experiences both good and bad. I know what it feels like to have to keep defending yourself against personal attacks, sometimes you can just laugh it off, it's kind of ridiculous afterall to think that guys on a discussion board can know exactly what's going on in your life, but other times it gets personal, and it's not so funny. I think we feel this way when the women we love are attacked, it's our natural instinct to defend them, internet or not, it's not cool to talk sh!t about another guys girl.

 It's nice to see some guys finally standing up and saying this is not how we want the board to be. I think more guys would post if they were not afraid of the response they might get, it's a little intimidating to a newbie when you have guys that have been here a long time, and think it's there way or the highway, and then come the insults. It's just not interesting or helpful to anyone.

Rivardco,
I completely agree. I have been asking for a higher degree of civility since
I became a member.  ...Certain members won't let it happen.

 Let's make it happen

[El Rock]

Very well written , Kevin , hope that's your name .

If KenC had a hand in creating this board , then yes , of course he has immunity status , to some degree and he always will.

He , as well as many others know just how  hard they  can push and get by with it .
They have had much expereince  doing so.

I think 1 of the probelms at RWG is the lack of moderrating  .
Here ,  they lean  and favore  some  people .

No board is perfect  , there will always be problems .

Wow, I missed a lot in the last few days, geez don't you guys even take a break from RWD during the holiday's? 

 Jb is gone? There truly is a God!    I know, I know, I will get slammed by some of the RWD faithful, because supposedly he is the wisest man in the land, Ken Catzenmouse even says " You are one of the main reasons that all of us are able to continue to move forward and be successful. "   Total BS if you ask me, he is a very negative influence on the board, and can actually hinder some newbies success with his know it all attitude and personal insults about the women we are pursuing. I just hate when people think they understand everything about a situation when they were never there, they are not in your head, nor can they read the minds of RW.

 Yes, experience helps, and most of us are glad to learn from those that have "been there, done that" but not every situation is the same, we may find common ground on certain issues, and share our collective knowledge, but most of what is said here areOPINIONS not total, complete, unarguable facts.

 I see RWD as a place where we go to share experiences, and say oh yeah I was in this situation and this is what I did, or maybe I can help you. NOT you are an idiot for doing this or that, I have been married so and so years, I know what I'm talking about, and you don't have a clue. That's not constructive behavior and only invites flame wars and endless bickering on the board that turns off newbies (like Joty)

 Is it "interesting" to have board members that argue for the sake of argument, and throw out insults to get a reaction? I don't think so. I think many of us here can relate to Photo Guy and the BS he had to put up with from certain members. If he made mistakes at least he admitted them, and he shared all of his experiences both good and bad. I know what it feels like to have to keep defending yourself against personal attacks, sometimes you can just laugh it off, it's kind of ridiculous afterall to think that guys on a discussion board can know exactly what's going on in your life, but other times it gets personal, and it's not so funny. I think we feel this way when the women we love are attacked, it's our natural instinct to defend them, internet or not, it's not cool to talk sh!t about another guys girl.

 It's nice to see some guys finally standing up and saying this is not how we want the board to be. I think more guys would post if they were not afraid of the response they might get, it's a little intimidating to a newbie when you have guys that have been here a long time, and think it's there way or the highway, and then come the insults. It's just not interesting or helpful to anyone.

 Let's make it happen

[jinx13]

 I have a question for KenC,

 Ken, you are a very outspoken person, and have very stong opinions about certain things, for example you give T/G and vwrw a lot of grief about their age difference and the fact that they claim to know each other so well after such a short time.

 Now I don't know your whole story, but I do know you pursued and married an absolutely gorgeous woman that is close to half your age, is that right? 25 years is a big gap my friend, and if you were on discussion boards at the time you made your first trip to meet her I am sure you would have been bombarded with advice from those that said it would never work, she's too young, out of your league, etc.  Would you have listened to them? Don't you know your situation better than they know it? You felt the connection with Lena, you knew what you had, nobody else can see that, or understand it, am I right?

 You have been married a long time now so maybe you have forgotten what it was like in the beginning, I'm sure you had your share of doubters and naysayers, maybe even within your own family, but your relationship has stayed strong, you knew something they didn't, love is real, it doesn't care about anything else, it doesn't go away because somebody tells you it's a bad idea.

 The reason I bring this up is to remind you of that time long ago, when people thought they knew everything, they were right about you and your relationship, you knew the truth, you were there, and nobody from a discussion board would have changed your mind. Just keep that in mind.

[KenC]

Jinx,
You are entitled to your uninformed rookie opinion.  You have a personal grudge against jb and I understand that, but most if not all of the seasoned and experienced members here think very highly of jb.  He made a mistake on your gf's immigration status and you called him on it and was proven correct.  You are still dancing the jig over the victory and rubbing his nose in it.  Enjoy it, because I can not remember the last time jb made a wrong call on such an issue. I have even witnessed him correcting immigration attorney's on the subject.  Whether you like him or hate him, any person would be a fool not to respect the man's mind and thouroughness of the information he freely supplies here.

You also do not understand (apparently) the true dynamics of what is happening between Turbo and I.  He does and it has little to do with the age difference.  Turbo's 38 year age dif is too much as is my 25 year dif.  If you had ever read my posts on the subject, I have made no secrete that I think 25 is too much.  But this is not the place for yet another debate and I suggest you search the forum for age related threads.

I also think that you are a littel too new here to start tell us what RWD should and should not be.
KenC

[KenC]

I have been defending myself against false accusations.

If I am being called overly 'romantic' or too much of an idealist,
I would like these claims to be substantiated by facts.
If I am being called 'delusional', I would like to debate that also.
What is the factual evidence?

If her status as a 'shop girl' is a negative thing, then I'd like to
hear the elaborate rationale for that idea.

If I allegedly can't afford to travel to the FSU, quote me the
hard evidence. (I've been there twice- am I in the 'poorhouse' now?)


Why is it so controversial to disagree with personal put-downs?
Looking at the posts, I'd say the ratio is about 5 to 1 against me.
I can substantiate that claim.

How can someone who does not know me or Larisa, reach the
conclusion that I am too delusional or too romantic about
the relationship?  It seems to me, it serves the purpose of
undermining anything I post, any valid points that I make.

The idea that I am 'desperate'- That opinion is based on what information?

Please stop, as I am gonna start to cry now. (snivel, snivel)
KenC

[jinx13]

Jinx,
You are entitled to your uninformed rookie opinion

KenC,

  You see, this is what I'm talking about, you just lash out, your never going to get any respect from newbies if you talk like that.

 I'm not an uninformed rookie, I've been to Russia and Ukraine a few times, and have been in a relationship with a Ukrainian woman for over a year, but once again you are right because you have been married 7 years right? Of course I was married too for many years, but that experience probably doesn't count either right?

 About Jb, I'm not rubbing his nose in it that he was wrong, I'm just tired of people here speaking like they absolutely KNOW what's going on in your situation, and they are absolutely right no matter what. I'm not going to rehash that battle I had with him about Nataly's visa, it's old news, and I have moved on. It's just funny how these topics keep getting blown up because Jb, or you, or whoever decide to tell us how it is, and then you resort to insults to get your point across.

 Ken, I think you give a lot of valuable advice, I have nothing against you, my last post to you was from the heart but you just can't listen to me because "i'm new here"  I'm actually not that new, and my opinion of what RWD should be counts just as much as yours, or a newbie for that matter.

[KenC]

Jinx,
I did mean new to this forum, sorry for the confusion.
KenC

[jinx13]

Name:  jinx13
Posts:  205 (0.625 per day)
Position:  Full Member
Date Registered:  February 04, 2006, 03:22:56 PM


 Not that new KenC    I was actually here before the change too, but didn't post much because I didn't have a whole lot of experience yet.

[El Rock]

It's just funny how these topics keep getting blown up because Jb, or you, or whoever decide to tell us how it is, and then you resort to insults to get your point across.

You hit the nail right on the head

It's his style of communication  ,he does it because he can get a way with it .
I would explain more about KenC , because he is somewhat transparent , but I believe it may be  useless .

BTW , the insults do not get any point across .
It's just little boy behavior

Rock