The beautiful women...

[Journeyman]

Regarding pre-existing language competency, or acquisition after meeting, I have had all types of experiences:

1.  Met a girl who was a 2 (on a scale of 5) for English, but became a 4 of 5 in only 4 months with weekly lessons.  Unfortunately, she only wanted a green card.

2.  Met a girl who wss a 5+ in English, but would not move to the US for marriage (even after visiting the US twice).

3.  Met a girl who was a 1 in English, but we found many good ways to communicate.  Nice girl.  Still friends.

4.  Met a girl who was a 2 when I met her, became a 3 on her own after 6 months of dating, but refused to take English lessons.  In the end, I realized that, all along, she never wanted to leave her home.  But she sure like the gifts.  Refusal of English lessons should have been red flag.  Duh! I learned.

5.  Met a girl who was a 4 in English, good communication, but was only interested in gifts and money.

6.  Met a girl who was a 1 in English, good communication, but was only interested in gifts and money.

7.  Met a girl who was a 1 in English and is now paying for twice a week English lessons.  She says she is determined to communicate well with me in 4 months without an interpreter.  So far so good.

I could go on.  However, the lesson for me is that they will do whatever they need to do (like learning English quickly) in order to get what they want.  But, as usual, the challenge is to determine what they really want.  How or why they learned or are learning English is but one factor to examine in that often enigmatic equation.

Journeyman

[BC]

I guess the key is being able to communicate face to face very well PRIOR getting engaged.

Doing otherwise is like biting into unsorted apples blind... you can like the feel and smell but these senses won't detect the worm until it's too late.

[Journeyman]

BC,

Yes, absolutely.  Attempting to have a normal courtship (in all respects -- including duration) is about the best thing you can do for yourself (but which is almost impossible to do for the average guy, given the circumstances).  Otherwise, the odds of a genuinely happy and enduring marriage are probably 100 to 1 against for the pairing that foregoes that normal courtship.  It would seem the WM in Europe would have the definite "edge" in securing some semblance of normalcy in a courtship.  Even my 3 or 4 visits to the FSU each year aren't enough (IMO).  

Journeyman

[BC]

Journeyman,

Good to see you're not asking for a homerun the first time around. Reading between the lines of your post you seem to be sorting things out quite well.  Like you use of 'met' instead of 'dated' and 'friends' instead of 'girlfriend'.

With the women you met with lower english skills seems it just took more time to for you to figure out what her real gameplan was. A quite logical conclusion that is probably often overruled by lower senses in a rush for satisfaction.

[Michelangelo]

I learned pretty quickly to never date girls who did not speak any English...it's hard to get alone with them And then I learned that you better date a girl who speaks pretty good English...or they will get mad at you for no reason! Misunderstandings, misunderstandings...

Good English or not, she can always learn it later ...
[/quote]Thanks for the correction.  I suppose, given the choice, I'd rather be able to speak to the girl directly without an intrept.  And many girls speak a degree of English, so I have that choice.  Marriage is a very important decision, so you had better be sure.  

[Bruno]

I suppose, given the choice, I'd rather be able to speak to the girl directly without an intrept. And many girls speak a degree of English, so I have that choice. Marriage is a very important decision, so you had better be sure.

If you choice very young women, you have a lot of chance that she speak English... it seem that now, english is the first foreign language study at school in FSU...

But if you date older woman... 35 yo + ... you will be lucky if she have learn english at school... in the time of USSR, several women have learn a second language but it was French or German mainly... followed by English and Italian...

Now, about interpret... i have never use them during a meeting and originaly, all women was not speeking english at the start... since i need some month for build a relation, she have time to learn some basic english before the meeting... i am not rich enough for make severel blind trip and meet woman from where i know nothing... some friendship or compatibility is needed before i make the move to the meeting...

Yes, many FSU woman speak english... but what if the right one for you is a woman who don't speak english... language is not my main selection criteria... it can always be learn... character is something other, difficult to change...

 

[Michelangelo]

I suppose, given the choice, I'd rather be able to speak to the girl directly without an intrept. And many girls speak a degree of English, so I have that choice. Marriage is a very important decision, so you had better be sure.

Yes, many FSU woman speak english... but what if the right one for you is a woman who don't speak english... language is not my main selection criteria... it can always be learn... character is something other, difficult to change...


[/quote]I may be wrong about this.  On my last trip to Ukraine, I stopped by an agency to meet a girl I had been writing for several months.  Within ten minutes, I could see she was not for me.  We have spoken of chemistry, but with she and me, it was like when you try to force two magnets together with the wrong poles pushing each other away.  So I walked away.  Went back to the agency and picked out several profiles that looked interesting, and set up dates.  While I was there, the agency manager brought over a girl, Oksano, who she said she thought I should meet.  WOW--chemistry!  It is instant, guys.  You can feel it, you can tell it. Even though she spoke zero English.  So I set up a date with her after the three that were already set.

The three girls I met were all in their early 20s and all spoke good English.  I disliked one, sort of liked two.  But they were too immature....university students.  So I looked forward to my date with Oksano.

We were great together. Yet, every word spoken was translated for us.  But the body langauge was clear (and when I say chemistry and body language it is more than lust--it's a real connection).  The last night we managed to get alone together to share some kisses, but that was all.

I left, promising to keep in touch.  Well, I did not.  Part of the problem was my attachment to another girl, Maria.  But the biggest problem was with the language.  How could I get to know her?  And is chemisty enough?

I think Richard and Bruno are correct.  It could have worked.  But with so many choices in girls, why take such a risk?  The apple does look shiny on the outside.  But to get to the core, it would take time....a lot of time.

So for me, I will stick to girls who speak some English.

Life is not fair, and life is tough...

[PeeWee]

God ~! I hate being awakened at 2:00 AM and asked why something went a miss. And that's from a woman who has been here a few years and knows the ropes.

Women are women. Pure and simple... No mater where they are from.

TRUE, but when you add culture and limited English to the mix, it is amplified [/quote]
We all know that some English words have a different meaning to a Russian/Ukrainhe et al. Add to that a poor phone connection, limited English skills, and I sometimes wonder how the comminicatin process happens, if only by luck.

The communication between men and women of the same culture is sometimes difficult. Add the cultural difference and her proficiency in her second language and I have run into misunderstandings even now.

Yesterday I was talking to Lara on the phone. It was a poor connection, she could her me but I could not hear her well as the tone was modulating. I was missing some of her words in each sentence. I was call ing her from my cell phone from my room in Las Vegas. I told her that I had been in the casino at Mandalay Bay and that I could not believe how many prostitutes patroled the hotel. I heard her say, "I hope that you find a new woman."

That statement needed clarification. "what did you say."   She replied. "I hope that you don't find another woman." The moduation in the connection had dropped the crutial "don't" in that sentence. I wondered how often over the years that I have missed a crutial word or two in our conversation because of poor phone connection or because of simple misunderstanding of her word usage.

PeeWee  

[PeeWee]

By the way. Who has found a good phone card? I am ready to trash Penny Talk. Poor quality. I have given her an Arbat card to call me from Moscow. The voice is always crystal clear whe she calls me.

 

Norm

[TigerPaws]

The three girls I met were all in their early 20s and all spoke good English. I disliked one, sort of liked two. But they were too immature....university students. So I looked forward to my date with Oksano.

We were great together. Yet, every word spoken was translated for us. But the body langauge was clear (and when I say chemistry and body language it is more than lust--it's a real connection). The last night we managed to get alone together to share some kisses, but that was all.

I left, promising to keep in touch. Well, I did not. Part of the problem was my attachment to another girl, Maria. But the biggest problem was with the language. How could I get to know her? And is chemisty enough?

I think Richard and Bruno are correct. It could have worked. But with so many choices in girls, why take such a risk? The apple does look shiny on the outside. But to get to the core, it would take time....a lot of time.

So for me, I will stick to girls who speak some English.

Life is not fair, and life is tough...

Michael,

 I have often said that the language issues are only as important as you want them to be, it sounds to me like you made a wise choice, if a man dose not have the time and paitence to deal with the language issues then he needs to limit himself to ladies who speak an acceptable level of English (to him). This of course considerably reduces the pool of available ladies but those are the choices you make in order to find exactly the kind and type of lady you are looking for.

 

[Michelangelo]

By the way. Who has found a good phone card? I am ready to trash Penny Talk. Poor quality. I have given her an Arbat card to call me from Moscow. The voice is always crystal clear whe she calls me.



Norm

I have used many companies over the last 3 years.  The best I have found, in terms of clairty, dependability, ease of use, and price, is
Cards2phone.pushline.com
Customer Service <service@Phone-Card-PIN.com>

[Photo Guy]

Rvrwind,
I also have NOT found her lack of English to be a deal-breaker. When we are without interpreter, we view our conversations as 'fun'. We stumble through them, but there's a romantic vibe.

When we speak with a terp, our conversations are enjoyable too. Our questions and answers show us who we are. She jokes and tells me that she will learn English before I learn Russian. -a friendly competition.

If I had followed the advice of some of these guys, Larisa would have been rejected many months ago because of the language barrier. And she is a wonderful woman. That's true. That's a reality.

[TigerPaws]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

If I had followed the advice of some of these guys, Larisa would have been rejected many months ago because of the language barrier. And she is a wonderful woman. That's true. That's a reality.

 Photo guy,

 Good for you and keep the faith, time and time again I have seen other couples who took the time and put forth the extra effort build a far stronger bond because of the language issues. Your lady will rely on you to explain things to her in an understandable way, even today over 5 years later I often have to explain what a word or phrase means, it is a process which takes time, effort by both of you, understanding and a great deal of patience.

 

[Michelangelo]

If I had followed the advice of some of these guys, Larisa would have been rejected many months ago because of the language barrier. And she is a wonderful woman. That's true. That's a reality.

Photo guy,

Good for you and keep the faith, time and time again I have seen other couples who took the time and put forth the extra effort build a far stronger bond because of the language issues. Your lady will rely on you to explain things to her in an understandable way, even today over 5 years later I often have to explain what a word or phrase means, it is a process which takes time, effort by both of you, understanding and a great deal of patience.


[/quote]That is corrrect, EVEN if your girl speaks good English.  I had a girlfriend for a year who had a university degree in English, and even with her, I was constantly explaing the meanings of phrases and words.

I also understand that you limit the field if you look only at girls who speak English now.  But I still think that is wise, since the only way you can get to know a girl is to live with her and talk with her--a lot.  So, if all things are equal, I'll take the girl who knows some English.

[TigerPaws]

Michael,

 That is of course your decision based on your wants, needs and desires, not necessarily the only right decision, as for me my wife spoke almost no English as did the ladies of several other men. There is no one fits all formula in the RW game, a man has to go with what he is comfortable with and what works for him to fit his wants, needs and desires.

[Michelangelo]

Michael,

That is of course your decision based on your wants, needs and desires, not necessarily the only right decision, as for me my wife spoke almost no English as did the ladies of several other men. There is no one fits all formula in the RW game, a man has to go with what he iscomfortable with and what works for him to fit his wants, needs and desires.

I agree totally, TigerPaws...

[PeeWee]

PeeWee

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[TigerPaws]

PeeWee,

 It sounds like you have done your homework, now there is only one thing left to do, jump into the deep end with both feet.

We wish you all possible sucess.

[PeeWee]

PeeWee

[jb]

Peewee,

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I'd be investing too heavily of myself or my time and money in a woman who was not eager to marry me.  With an attitude like that there's a lot that could go wrong at the last minute.

From what you've written she seems more and more like an AW career woman and less like RW wife material.  However if she's what you want I see no reason not to proceed,,, cautiously, of course.

[TigerPaws]

Peewee,

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I'd be investing too heavily of myself or my time and money in a woman who was not eager to marry me. With an attitude like that there's a lot that could go wrong at the last minute.

From what you've written she seems more and more like an AW career woman and less like RW wife material. However if she's what you want I see no reason not to proceed,,, cautiously, of course.

 

PeeWee,

 While I really dislike agreeing with jb, he is right keep your eyes wide open and maybe you should look into options for an exit plan should things go wrong.

[jb]

<gasp>

[Michelangelo]

Wow...way to go, JB....today you had nice compliments from both Tiger and Bruno!!!   And I'll also add my appreciation to your sound advice on dating and getting the girl here  michael moore

[PeeWee]

Peewee,

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I'd be investing too heavily of myself or my time and money in a woman who was not eager to marry me. With an attitude like that there's a lot that could go wrong at the last minute.

From what you've written she seems more and more like an AW career woman and less like RW wife material. However if she's what you want I see no reason not to proceed,,, cautiously, of course.

I am not too concerned about it. I don't invest all that much into it, on an annyal basis. I am not concerned on a return of investment for my time. What time does it take? Two phone calls a week. One trip to Russia. What's that? She mentioned today that she thought that she would visit me for 2 weeks come November. But what is even 2 weeks. I'll be wanting to take a vacation about then anyway.

She is much like an AW career woman. That is what I like about her. She is highly motivated. Like me. I really think that it is she who should be cautious and not me. She has more money (in US greenbacks) than I do, more assests, and is better educated. She loves Moscow and would only leave Moscow for a love that was greater than her love for the city itself.

 

PeeWee