Is it OK to meet with more than one woman on your trip to FSU

[Shadow]

Hi Billy, how do you know that?!... how do you know how he gets dates?

Perhaps, Pike is a troll ? 

For sure, if he does behave in the manner he says he does, he could be ruining things for WM that follow... As some of us have perceptions about FSUW - based on our experiences - think about how a Pike could be affecting their perceptions !

Don't worry. RW bounce back faster than men who had a bad experience.

[msmoby_ru]

Don't worry. RW bounce back faster than men who had a bad experience.

Sorry, to always seem to disagree with most members, recently - but, *I Disagree* !

I personally know of two lovely FSUW who have been badly "scarred" by the antics of  predetory WM - one of whom was very married - big shock to wife and FSUW and t'other who has written  off the WM dating scene for two years as she met a WM who was, let's say, a little "pushy"...and when denied caused her more local and internet problems.

Our actions are the experiences  FSUW have of WM... and the perceptions of those yet to meet one !

I really don't think you can be so general in assuming FSUW women bounce back quicker than WM - we propably don't hear their side of meetings with the likes of "pike" - if his trip reports are a true reflection of events ....

[Shadow]

If you read general guidelines on how to act after a broken relationship, for whatever reason, you will see that in general women bounce back faster than men. Men take 6 mnths in average to be able to build a new relationship, where as women on average take 3 months.

My personal experience with a woman who was 'scarred' was the one I met in Kiev. She needed about 2 months before getting back to being truly interested in a new guy. Of course it might have helped that during that time she was in contact with at least one WM who did not have such habits, even if as friend only.

Like we will try to avoid a mistake we made earlier, women will do the same. Which means they will be more careful and checking when they met a bastard. On the other hand, by meeting a bad example they do the good guys a service as they will prove the difference pretty quickly.

[steviej]

If you read general guidelines on how to act after a broken relationship, for whatever reason, you will see that in general women bounce back faster than men.

I remember reading a while ago that men have a higher risk of depression after divorce than women. (This was US specific). Men tend to not have close friends and social networks, outside of "colleagues" at work. Women are more verbal about their distress too.

[Ooooops]

If you read general guidelines on how to act after a broken relationship, for whatever reason, you will see that in general women bounce back faster than men.

Then may be you shouldn't have made comment that "RW bounce back faster than men who had a bad experience".    Simply W would be more correct in this generalization.   

[Shadow]

Then may be you shouldn't have made comment that "RW bounce back faster than men who had a bad experience".    Simply W would be more correct in this generalization.   

I added my personal experience of such a case...

[msmoby_ru]

If you read general guidelines on how to act after a broken relationship, for whatever reason, you will see that in general women bounce back faster than men. Men take 6 mnths in average to be able to build a new relationship, where as women on average take 3 months.

Hi Shadow, I never heard this before - have you got any data sources please ?

Like we will try to avoid a mistake we made earlier, women will do the same. Which means they will be more careful and checking when they met a bastard. On the other hand, by meeting a bad example they do the good guys a service as they will prove the difference pretty quickly.

But who wants to be the poor "good" guy when she has just re-entered the scene?

[KenC]

Hi Billy, how do you know that?!... how do you know how he gets dates?

Perhaps, Pike is a troll ? 

For sure, if he does behave in the manner he says he does, he could be ruining things for WM that follow... As some of us have perceptions about FSUW - based on our experiences - think about how a Pike could be affecting their perceptions !

You are much closer to being a troll than Pike is.  I suggest you read some of Pike's T/R and the anti-Pike T/R before you offer up your "expertise" on the subject.  Without knowing what you're talking about (again), you just make yourself look foolish (again)
KenC

[msmoby_ru]

You are much closer to being a troll than Pike is.  I suggest you read some of Pike's T/R and the anti-Pike T/R before you offer up your "expertise" on the subject.  Without knowing what you're talking about (again), you just make yourself look foolish (again)
KenC

Oh Ken, you and I managed to destroy Maxx's thread ..  are you going to do the same here ... ? 

IF you'd bothered to check, you'd note that Pike and I "discuss" his trips.. he believes another member and I are a "tag team" ...


It has to be said, again - that I visit and have visited the FSU many more times than you ( sorry Dan, still can't get 10+ to work !) , and my "experience" is far more recent ..   and arguably more valid ...

If you can actually find something you disagree with ( or even agree with !) that I've said, by all means contribute .. 

[Admin]

Oh Ken, you and I managed to destroy Maxx's thread ..  are you going to do the same here ... ? 

IF you'd bothered to check, you'd note that Pike and I "discuss" his trips.. he believes another member and I are a "tag team" ...


It has to be said, again - that I visit and have visited the FSU many more times than you ( sorry Dan, still can't get 10+ to work !) , and my "experience" is far more recent ..   and arguably more valid ...

If you can actually find something you disagree with ( or even agree with !) that I've said, by all means contribute .. 

Mark / Ken

This is getting silly.

Next of you that responds to ANYTHING the other says (writes) - or references the other in any way - I'll put in Moderated status for a week.

Come on guys. The rest of us do NOT need to be a party to this - even if it's just skimming over your tripe.

- Dan

[KenC]

Oh Ken, you and I managed to destroy Maxx's thread ..  are you going to do the same here ... ? 

IF you'd bothered to check, you'd note that Pike and I "discuss" his trips.. he believes another member and I are a "tag team" ...


It has to be said, again - that I visit and have visited the FSU many more times than you ( sorry Dan, still can't get 10+ to work !) , and my "experience" is far more recent ..   and arguably more valid ...

If you can actually find something you disagree with ( or even agree with !) that I've said, by all means contribute .. 

Now you're giving me permission to post?    You are a complete joke here and my assessment that you are troll-like isn't too far off the mark, Mark.  In the course of less than a week, you have managed to start and perpetuate arguments with:
Gator
Shadow
AJ
Groovistk
Taz
and me

The other members on this list are among the most respected and well liked group of men participating on RWD.  Think about that for a moment would you?  These guys have been here for years and have earned the respect and friendship through valuable contributions here.  They didn't just show up yesterday with an opinion and an acid tongue like you did.  You need to back your sh!t down, dude.  The more I look through your posts, the more I think you ARE a troll.  You have done nothing here but be disruptive, argumentative and disrespectful.  Just FYI, your argumentative "know it all" attitude is grading many members nerves here.  The list is much longer than just these few men mentioned.  This is a relatively friendly community and quite frankly your crap is wearing very thin.  Wouldn't it be better to drop the bad attitude and rude remarks and try to get along?  Why do you have to argue every picayune point to ad nauseum?  Well beyond the point of interest (hint hint)

Keep your viewpoints and make your pov known without the sarcastic BS, and then move on.  In the short heartbeat that you have been here, you have been added to 5 members ignore list.  It took me years to get my number up that high.  (To be honest though, I would dare say that most of the members that have me on ignore have long gone from here)  What you need to understand is that even if members don't put you on "ignore" they will stop reading your posts all together.  Never have I ever seen one member poison the water and ruin the sense of community as I have with you.  Congrats on being the biggest downer and pain in the azz ever on RWD.

BTW, Einstein, the "Risky Business" thread was started my me, not Maxx.
KenC

 Ref: Posts

[KenC]

Dan,
I had this post written and it was ready to be submitted when you made your post.  But in all honesty, I did read your post before I submitted mine.  I meant no disrespect to you in any way, but I am just too passionate about this forum to not address a problem that I think endangers the community feel many of us have spent years developing here.  To continue to ignore a behavior that puts our community at risk, just is not a possibility with my nature.

I do not look to continue this on going "grudge match" with Moby, but I felt it more important to make the points I have here than to risk be moderated for a while.  Do what ever you think is right, as it is the way I too operate.
KenC

[BillyB]

Hi Billy, how do you know that?!... how do you know how he gets dates?

Perhaps, Pike is a troll ? 

For sure, if he does behave in the manner he says he does, he could be ruining things for WM that follow... As some of us have perceptions about FSUW - based on our experiences - think about how a Pike could be affecting their perceptions !

I don't think Albert is hurting sincere RW feelings and ruining the reputation of WM that go there. If one is to believe Albert's postings that he's had sex with different women everyday on some of his trips then we must also believe these women are sleeping in the same apartment with him and dropping their panties within 24 hrs of meeting him while he is still very much a stranger. Albert also has had phone sex with some of these women before he commits to a visit. Albert may not want a "hard to get" woman. He targets a specific type of women and these women know what to expect when they meet him. Unlike others, I don't feel sorry for the RW that meet Albert and open their legs within 24 hrs. They know what they're doing.

[msmoby_ru]

Mark / Ken

This is getting silly.

Next of you that responds to ANYTHING the other says (writes) - or references the other in any way - I'll put in Moderated status for a week.

Come on guys. The rest of us do NOT need to be a party to this - even if it's just skimming over your tripe.

- Dan

Hi Dan

As I promised I didn't respond to Ken in an existing thread and started a new thread in anything goes - *then* read this.

So now I've read it - I promise to comply and sorry for wasting your time..

[Admin]

As all can see, there are two members now in Moderated status.

A bit more about that status (described in the ToS, BTW)

Moderated status does not prevent a member from posting. It *does* require me, or one of the Mods, to review the post before it makes its way to the open forum. In earlier days, before we had this system, the Admin would give a short-term ban. I know, because Patrick at Planet-Love once banned me for a week for being argumentative. Sometimes the 'heat' of the moment overcomes common sense.

This one really bothered me.

There are few people who have done more for RWD than KenC. I have little doubt that Ken's interests are in support of RWD at all times. Ken also proudly proclaims that he "is not a nice guy." Actually, he is - but he has a gruff exterior and that is what most people see. That is what moby/Mark saw.

Mark is new to our board. He is smart and witty and articulate. He also is not above taking an unpopular position and 'digging in' - whether to make a point or because he truly believes it - I am not yet sure.

Look folks - anyone can take a harsh position on an issue and argue it till they are blue on the face - or others are exhausted by trying to see them sway. That does not constitute an effective argument - IF - the objective is to convince others to your way of thinking. Being intractible for the sake of intractibility is a worthless exercise.

What this - and a few other squabbles - have convinced me of is the need for some guidance around how to be effective in the face of an intractible opponent. Look for a new announcement sometime in the near future I will probably call it 'The Rule of 5.'

- Dan

[Gator]

Dan, you have been busy with some initiatives, particularly the MOB survey.  I do not know if you have read enough to understand fully the extent of Mark’s shenanigans.  It is unjust to moderate KenC and Mark together because it suggests that both are equally at fault. 

You say that Mark is “smart and witty and articulate.”  Yes, Mark has these qualities although “wit” is a stretch because the man is humorless.  Let us examine other traits.

For sure Mark is argumentative and relishes getting into people’s faces.  Also, he harbors animosity.  Twice he has started something called Male Cat Fight in Anything Goes.  Now who in their right mind would do that?  While that alone would make me leery of him, I would reluctantly accept it if for no other reason than others can be almost as bad in doing the same.

There is something else that separates Mark from other agitators.  Something that places him at the bottom of the totem pole.  Here goes:

In my dealings I have found the man to twist the facts beyond what could be considered argumentative.  Two examples of blatant lies.  These are not twisting of analytical statistics by an intuitive thinker as with Ed What's His Name.  Nope, they are so compelling blatant that I feel the man is either delusional or a forum saboteur.

It is a shame that a man with his experience, lovely wife, good story to share, would be such a negative influence.

To put KenC and Mark in the same penalty box for the same amount of time is not right.

[Admin]

Dan, you have been busy with some initiatives, particularly the MOB survey.  I do not know if you have read enough to understand fully the extent of Mark’s shenanigans.  It is unjust to moderate KenC and Mark together because it suggests that both are equally at fault. 

You say that Mark is “smart and witty and articulate.”  Yes, Mark has these qualities although “wit” is a stretch because the man is humorless.  Let us examine other traits.

For sure Mark is argumentative and relishes getting into people’s faces.  Also, he harbors animosity.  Twice he has started something called Male Cat Fight in Anything Goes.  Now who in their right mind would do that?  While that alone would make me leery of him, I would reluctantly accept it if for no other reason than others can be almost as bad in doing the same.

There is something else that separates Mark from other agitators.  Something that places him at the bottom of the totem pole.  Here goes:

In my dealings I have found the man to twist the facts beyond what could be considered argumentative.  Two examples of blatant lies.  These are not twisting of analytical statistics by an intuitive thinker as with Ed What's His Name.  Nope, they are so compelling blatant that I feel the man is either delusional or a forum saboteur.

It is a shame that a man with his experience, lovely wife, good story to share, would be such a negative influence.

To put KenC and Mark in the same penalty box for the same amount of time is not right.

Gator,

You are correct, I *have* been busy with the survey and with my primary job. There has been little time for RWD, and less to wade through a bunch of posts that looked to me like a series of pointless argumentative posts leading to nowhere good.

The problem had been contained to that one topic, and appeared to be waning. At the point that I saw the debacle spill into another topic, it was time to intervene. It does RWD no good for endless squabbling to be carried into multiple topics and poisoning them all. It isn't fair to the participants of the other threads, and it is not fair to RWD in general.

My point in intervening was clear. It was not blameful, and did not assign guilt to either party. Partly, because I knew that I had not 'read for understanding' all the crap that led up to that point - and I wasn't going to (and won't now) go back and carefully read through it all.

My warning was a simple recognition that both parties played a part in the exchange - I was not assigning blame to either one - but as adults, and in consideration of the rest of the board members, they needed to knock it off. I could not have been clearer.

I think that every member here, KenC included, knows the respect and regard I hold for him. As I told him today, there is not a single person at RWD who has done more for this community, and more for this site, than KenC. He does it in his own way - but he is inflappable in his support.

It was painful for me to put him in Moderated status. I didn't want to. But I also have an obligation to be as even-handed as I know how to be - and in matters of this sort, the choices are tough.

I looked at it simply. I did not wish to lay blame - and I wanted the crap to stop. I drew a line in the sand and told neither to cross it. It was not a difficult request to follow. Both parties chose to cross the line.

Unless we are ready for the site to become total chaos where anyone may at any time choose to ignore our ToS, ignore the tenets of the Vision we promote, ignore the Guidelines for Civil Discourse (much of which WAS ignored, BTW) - ignore a reasonable request to stop their fighting - then when I make a simple request for guys to stop the bickering, they need to do it. They didn't. Both are in Moderated status - both have made posts since that appear in the open forum.

- Dan

[msmoby_ru]

Dan, you have been busy with some initiatives, particularly the MOB survey.  I do not know if you have read enough to understand fully the extent of Mark’s shenanigans.  It is unjust to moderate KenC and Mark together because it suggests that both are equally at fault. 

Gator, you were wise to stay silent - as it was your response to my taking you up on some advice you gave to Maxx2 that started the latest episode.. you would have been moderated, too !

For sure Mark is argumentative and relishes getting into people’s faces.  Also, he harbors animosity.  Twice he has started something called Male Cat Fight in Anything Goes.  Now who in their right mind would do that? 

Well Gator, the FACTS are somewhat different - Male Catfight was a category into which Livefrom Ukraine and my posts were moved ( correctly ) to isolate our spat and let another thread continue - I tried to do the same with KenC to let the other thread continue ...

While that alone would make me leery of him, I would reluctantly accept it if for no other reason than others can be almost as bad in doing the same.

I think telling fibs is a lot worse, Gator..

There is something else that separates Mark from other agitators.  Something that places him at the bottom of the totem pole. 



 Here goes:

In my dealings I have found the man to twist the facts beyond what could be considered argumentative.  Two examples of blatant lies.  These are not twisting of analytical statistics by an intuitive thinker as with Ed What's His Name.  Nope, they are so compelling blatant that I feel the man is either delusional or a forum saboteur. 

I suggest you post these "blatent lies" - I am happy to be judged.

It is a shame that a man with his experience, lovely wife, good story to share, would be such a negative influence.

I fail to see how even mentioning my wife is relevent - but if you say she is lovely - thanks - I hope she is a good judge of character, too

To put KenC and Mark in the same penalty box for the same amount of time is not right.

Gator, I'm truly sorry KenC was penalised, too - in fact I'm happy to stay moderated and for KenC to be "let out of jail"

My "issue" is really with you ...

[Turboguy]

Gator
My "issue" is really with you ...

Why do you need to have an issue with anyone Mark?  We are all her trying to help share information and ideas that may help others.   Letting those things grow into a fight just diverts anyone from listening to the good ideas contained.

You thought Gators suggestion that a WOVO may have contributed to his problems was a bad one.   One of my observations about ideas is that when one is thrown out, sometimes it is an answer and sometimes it is the seed of an answer.  Many would agree on of Maxx's biggest problems was rushing into something and I think Gators suggestion in part dealt with that.   Personally I think when people have more to compare they can make better comparisons.   My own opinion is that Gators thoughts on the subject were quite good.  You know what they say about opinions so who cares anyway.   

[msmoby_ru]

Why do you need to have an issue with anyone Mark? 

Hi Jet, and thanks for trying to help.

I want to say that I made a DICK of myself with KenC, and once I had said what I'd said once I SHOULD have let it go ..    

I'm afraid Gator - is quite another kettle of fish - YES.. experienced guys are here to help and we all have different ideas of what that help is ... ! Really, even *I* the alledgedly "dogmatic one" can understand that  !

I won't bore you all again why *I* think Gator was wrong, nor my point that it wasn't a WOVO tirade - these debates are pointless - it depends on the circumstances of the individuals ( man and lady)

Gator tells you all that I have lied ( not for the first time ) and has made some other statements regarding my unreliability re pms - which when challenged - he left hanging - you can imagine I was insistent - his ultimate response being he was exasperated and considered the matter closed. I imagine this is why Gator says I "harbour a grudge" !

His comments regarding my wife were, unecessary, IMHO implying some pity was due to her - Believe me, she DOES know how to handle me .. I can say that we have been apart 2.5 months and the time approaches when we'll be reunited so I will post here a lot less often

We are all her trying to help share information and ideas that may help others.   Letting those things grow into a fight just diverts anyone from listening to the good ideas contained.

Of course you are correct.

You thought Gators suggestion that a WOVO may have contributed to his problems was a bad one.   One of my observations about ideas is that when one is thrown out, sometimes it is an answer and sometimes it is the seed of an answer.  Many would agree on of Maxx's biggest problems was rushing into something and I think Gators suggestion in part dealt with that. 

OK, at the risk of repating myself -I agree with the "folly" of rushing into things .....

  Personally I think when people have more to compare they can make better comparisons.   My own opinion is that Gators thoughts on the subject were quite good. 

Apart form that one assertion I'd agree !

 You know what they say about opinions so who cares anyway.