IMBRA questions

[dating-and-matchmaking]

Hello everybody!!

i am really greatful to Dan for inviting me here.
I am an owner and director of AllSingleRussianGirls.com
Sorry that could not answer as soon as received invitation (moving now to a new apartment and it is really not so easy with a small child).

My mistake is that I have just realized that it is so serious and really need attention and work with!
About 3 weeks ago I have heard about this but never thought that it would begin work . Since this law came into force a lot of men married and there were no problem (a lot of men marry here , in Russia and that's why I think even now they do not have any problem. just marry here and then make a visa for their wives)
but about two weeks ago about 8 my couples with men living in USa began to do fiancee visa for their wives and this question was raised.
YEs, it is my mistake that I have not realized it in time.
I am discussing with my programmer now the steps that we need to do ( some petition from client, checking the client and then providing collected information in Russian to women), but I am afraid I can't do it in minutes.
After it will be done on the site. I think it does not matter if the person continues communicate on the site or on mail.ru or any postal system. It seems to me that the first contact makes sense. I need to provide infomation during the first introduction and then if a couple preferred to communicate not in the system but personaly it is their decision.
sorry.
It will take at least some days before it will be on the site.
 I provided all couples by their request information from that public info resource if a man had problems with law about sexual crimes. But nothing else I do not have . 

What do you think should I ask all clients from USA to give me information demanded by law (previous marriages, children and so on) or should I just give a person a choice. If he wants he can stay on the site for some time and see if he likes the site and then confirm his desire to follow the law? Or should I just ask any USA client anyway all this info?

Thank you,
IRina Grebneva

[Chillidog]

Irina,

Thank you for responding. I am a member of your dating site. The woman I am meeting my "first contact" with her was thru your site. (are emails now are thru our personal email addresses).

It is too early in our relationship to get married, but we have discussed this subject. She would prefer to marry in the USA. Something about all the time needed to file the proper papers, and with this all necessary exchanging of money (bribes).

being a person that has nothing to hide, "no criminal record, no sex offenses. not even any speeding tickets"

I'm am most concern with how my government will view a future K1 application without first my lady friend having viewed the IMBRA of a US citizen. Prior to our first contact and now not prior to our first personal meeting.

Any suggestions you can offer to me, from your exprience with these other men who have married? How did they go about providing a "Background check" to their women? I am not overly happy about just ignoring it (IMBRA)

Not sure how other "International Dating sites" handle this for the women who are in contact with men from the USA 

[Admin]

Irina,

Thank you for responding. I am a member of your dating site. The woman I am meeting my "first contact" with her was thru your site. (are emails now are thru our personal email addresses).

It is too early in our relationship to get married, but we have discussed this subject. She would prefer to marry in the USA. Something about all the time needed to file the proper papers, and with this all necessary exchanging of money (bribes).

being a person that has nothing to hide, "no criminal record, no sex offenses. not even any speeding tickets"

I'm am most concern with how my government will view a future K1 application without first my lady friend having viewed the IMBRA of a US citizen. Prior to our first contact and now not prior to our first personal meeting.

Any suggestions you can offer to me, from your exprience with these other men who have married? How did they go about providing a "Background check" to their women? I am not overly happy about just ignoring it (IMBRA)

Not sure how other "International Dating sites" handle this for the women who are in contact with men from the USA 

Chillidog,

You may find the attached form of some help.

This is the Background Information required by IMBRA [reference: http://www.goodwife.com/index.php?pid=14 - Sec. 833(d)(2)(B)]

Irina and her company may want to use this, and the other tools we have developed, for their IMBRA compliance needs.

Just FYI

- Dan

[2tallbill]

I met a woman at Luckylovers,

I am absolutely sure that they didn't provide any information
at all to the woman that I met there, because I was never asked
to provide any.

On my own I provided the lady with a notarized attestation form
that I had made from another agency stating among other things
that I didn't get caught running prostitution or drug rings, my
previous marriage etc.

My question is what if anything will LL's lack of following IMBRA
guidelines do to any possible future K-1 application that I might
have?

[Admin]

I met a woman at Luckylovers,

I am absolutely sure that they didn't provide any information
at all to the woman that I met there, because I was never asked
to provide any.

On my own I provided the lady with a notarized attestation form
that I had made from another agency stating among other things
that I didn't get caught running prostitution or drug rings, my
previous marriage etc.

My question is what if anything will LL's lack of following IMBRA
guidelines do to any possible future K-1 application that I might
have?

Likeliest outcome is it will have no effect on you or your fiance. There is currently no language in the IMBRA legislation that calls for ANY enforcement action to be taken against the fiance or sponsor.

Having said that, it is well-documented that the Consular Officer conducting the interview has enormous latitude in their decision to grant, or not, the visa. While doubtful they would deny on the basis of an agency failing in its responsibilities, the possibility exists.

It comes down to a risk decision. It is less risky to conduct business with an agency that is known to be IMBRA-compliant, or IMBRA-exempt. It is worth noting there is no such thing yet as a formal IMBRA Exemption, so any agency claiming exemption should be carefully scrutinized.

And worst of all - ANY agency claiming to be able to assist by "circumventing" IMBRA is lying to you and should be avoided.

- Dan

[2tallbill]

Likeliest outcome is it will have no effect on you or your fiance. There is currently no language in the IMBRA legislation that calls for ANY enforcement action to be taken against the fiance or sponsor.

Having said that, it is well-documented that the Consular Officer conducting the interview has enormous latitude in their decision to grant, or not, the visa. While doubtful they would deny on the basis of an agency failing in its responsibilities, the possibility exists.

It comes down to a risk decision. It is less risky to conduct business with an agency that is known to be IMBRA-compliant, or IMBRA-exempt. It is worth noting there is no such thing yet as a formal IMBRA Exemption, so any agency claiming exemption should be carefully scrutinized.

And worst of all - ANY agency claiming to be able to assist by "circumventing" IMBRA is lying to you and should be avoided.

- Dan

In my case I am in the past tense, I can't un-meet a woman, or meet her somewhere
else.

Maybe Jet, or one of the other Legal beagles here can comment further.

[BC]

Not a legal beagle, but don't see anything wrong with answering the questions honestly.

There is probably quite a bit wrong filling out forms falsely and giving dishonest statements to a Consul.

[2tallbill]

Not a legal beagle, but don't see anything wrong with answering the questions honestly.

There is probably quite a bit wrong filling out forms falsely and giving dishonest statements to a Consul.

I totally agree with answering the questions honestly,
I was more worried about any grief I might get by meeting
a gal where the agency didn't do their part.

Besides I am way too stupid to lie, I wouldn't remember enough
to keep my facts straight

Bill

[BC]

Besides I am way too stupid to lie, I wouldn't remember enough
to keep my facts straight

Therein lies the true problem... lets say an ex, either AW or RW that somehow found out the woman you brought home was listed at an agency and tried to 'remind' the officials..  Or some agency stealing AM client listings from another agency and sending them on to some government agency.. 

Probably best to remember as far as the credit card billing statement.

What happened Mr. 2tall?  You don't remember and didn't even contest the charges of lovemenot.com to your CC account?

[Chillidog]

I met a woman at Luckylovers,

I am absolutely sure that they didn't provide any information
at all to the woman that I met there, because I was never asked
to provide any.

On my own I provided the lady with a notarized attestation form
that I had made from another agency stating among other things
that I didn't get caught running prostitution or drug rings, my
previous marriage etc.

My question is what if anything will LL's lack of following IMBRA
guidelines do to any possible future K-1 application that I might
have?

Bill,

I'm in the same boat you are in, except different site, mine was with ASRG and not LL

I also "can't un-meet someone I have already met".

what "Agency site" did you use to come up with your own disclosure form? just curious to see what type of questions they are asking men to cooperate with the IMBRA

[2tallbill]

Here is a blank copy of what I filled out.

[2tallbill]

This could be an official form as well

[tommy1469]

As a Canadian not living in the US , would this statute effect me?

[2tallbill]

As a Canadian not living in the US , would this statute effect me?

I can't think of any reasonable way it could affect you.

Udachi ! (good luck!)

Bill

[topofthekey]

With a fresh mind I just reread this thread. After doing so I personally came to the conclusion that if they don't charge a membership and use advertising instead... then they don't count as a marriage broker. Meaning free personals. RU is actually exempt. HAHA at least I sure hope so now that I'm planning to meet a girl off of it.

[Admin]

Here is a blank copy of what I filled out.

Just looked over that ATTESTATION form, and it raises some questions.

Sections 4, 5, 6 and 7 ask for the US Client to provide copies of court orders and/or arrest/conviction records. I do not read IMBRA to require those records to be provided to the IMB.

The form also appears to require notarization, which is definitely NOT a requirement of IMBRA.

- Dan

[2tallbill]

Just looked over that ATTESTATION form, and it raises some questions.

Sections 4, 5, 6 and 7 ask for the US Client to provide copies of court orders and/or arrest/conviction records. I do not read IMBRA to require those records to be provided to the IMB.

The form also appears to require notarization, which is definitely NOT a requirement of IMBRA.

- Dan

I agree, I was just showing Chilli and others what a form might look like.
Does Goodwife have a standardized form that guys could look at?



Bill

[Admin]

I agree, I was just showing Chilli and others what a form might look like.
Does Goodwife have a standardized form that guys could look at?



Bill

Yeah - I attached it earlier, and will attach it again to this message.

The attached form is prepared for an agency to use in collecting data from its US Clients. It provides a specific reference to the IMBRA text, by paragraph, that requires specific data to be collected.

The only case I can think of in which there is MORE information than IMBRA requires is in the section on "Children" - which asks for the child's first name and age. IMBRA does not require a first name, but to insure proper data collection, that was added (ref: http://www.goodwife.com/index.php?pid=14#par_d_2_B_vi).

Also, there is uncertainty over what IMBRA actually requires in terms of "documentation" to accompany the attestation (ref: http://www.goodwife.com/index.php?pid=14#par_d_2_B). The first step is for the IMB to collect the basic data, and then work with the US Client to determine what, if any, additional "documentation" needs to be provided.

- Dan

[dating-and-matchmaking]

Irina,

Thank you for responding. I am a member of your dating site. The woman I am meeting my "first contact" with her was thru your site. (are emails now are thru our personal email addresses).

It is too early in our relationship to get married, but we have discussed this subject. She would prefer to marry in the USA. Something about all the time needed to file the proper papers, and with this all necessary exchanging of money (bribes).

being a person that has nothing to hide, "no criminal record, no sex offenses. not even any speeding tickets"

I'm am most concern with how my government will view a future K1 application without first my lady friend having viewed the IMBRA of a US citizen. Prior to our first contact and now not prior to our first personal meeting.

Any suggestions you can offer to me, from your exprience with these other men who have married? How did they go about providing a "Background check" to their women? I am not overly happy about just ignoring it (IMBRA)

Not sure how other "International Dating sites" handle this for the women who are in contact with men from the USA 

Hello.
Worked hard all these days to implement all these things about IMBRA to the site. the problem is that we have to move now sites to a new engine (part by part and now the part we are moving is mailbox , the most sensitive part of the site). So we have to hurry new mail, and add imbra to this. I have to consult my lawyers, work with programmer, test the site and so on!! Awful lots of work.
Dan, thank you very much for the great resourse you have . I read all the information not once!

AS for previous cases. Before this month we had lots of marriages, but strange but we have not heard about this IMBRA law. To begin with, a lot of couples marry in Russia, in Ukraine or in Cyprus (good and easy marriage process). In spring the previous year we had about 7-9 marriages each day (usually summer is the time of the first meeting, fall or winter the second meeting and then in spring a lot of marriages!). And when a person married and then brings his wife to USA there are no questions about where he met her and if they followed IMBRA law. Really these questions arise only this last 1-2 months. And when women began to ask me before the interview at the consulate to provide the information they need to have, and after  I received Dan's letter I realized all the seriousness of this.
I hope all the things to implement will be finished tomorrow and in a day we will have IMBRA on the site .

I have only one question and maybe someone can help me.
In some reading of this law I read that  I can't allow men from USA exchange contact information with women at all until he gives all that needed info.
For now I do not interfere into the communication (hm on the site there are about 77 000 women and about 20 000 women daily. can't imagine some checking mail). But what should I do now? Should I just demand all men from USA give this information and do not allow them to communicate at all on the site until they give?Or should I just write to them that they aren't allowed to exchange contact information with women until they give or just warn women and men that if they want to make visa later men need to give this information.

YEs, and one more question. I can ask the woman to read the info the man gave, and then confirm by clicking on the button once before she begins communicating with them but how on earth can I ask her to send me written agreement ? Usually women here do not have scanners at home and to write an agreement about each man whom they begin correspondence will just stop women from contacting all men from USa.
What to do?

Thank you,
Irina 

[Sculpto]

Irina,
If I am not mistaken the IMRA only requires the submission of forms and information prior to the exchange of contact info or an in real life meeting.  Since you have women over great distances I think you must find a way to use fax service backed up with real mail.  Certainly an inconvenience and more work for you, but, it should satisfy the law.

Congrats on running what sounds like a legitimate agency.  We need more like you.

[Admin]

Hello.
Worked hard all these days to implement all these things about IMBRA to the site. the problem is that we have to move now sites to a new engine (part by part and now the part we are moving is mailbox , the most sensitive part of the site). So we have to hurry new mail, and add imbra to this. I have to consult my lawyers, work with programmer, test the site and so on!! Awful lots of work.
Dan, thank you very much for the great resourse you have . I read all the information not once!

AS for previous cases. Before this month we had lots of marriages, but strange but we have not heard about this IMBRA law. To begin with, a lot of couples marry in Russia, in Ukraine or in Cyprus (good and easy marriage process). In spring the previous year we had about 7-9 marriages each day (usually summer is the time of the first meeting, fall or winter the second meeting and then in spring a lot of marriages!). And when a person married and then brings his wife to USA there are no questions about where he met her and if they followed IMBRA law. Really these questions arise only this last 1-2 months. And when women began to ask me before the interview at the consulate to provide the information they need to have, and after  I received Dan's letter I realized all the seriousness of this.
I hope all the things to implement will be finished tomorrow and in a day we will have IMBRA on the site .

I have only one question and maybe someone can help me.
In some reading of this law I read that  I can't allow men from USA exchange contact information with women at all until he gives all that needed info.
For now I do not interfere into the communication (hm on the site there are about 77 000 women and about 20 000 women daily. can't imagine some checking mail). But what should I do now? Should I just demand all men from USA give this information and do not allow them to communicate at all on the site until they give?Or should I just write to them that they aren't allowed to exchange contact information with women until they give or just warn women and men that if they want to make visa later men need to give this information.

YEs, and one more question. I can ask the woman to read the info the man gave, and then confirm by clicking on the button once before she begins communicating with them but how on earth can I ask her to send me written agreement ? Usually women here do not have scanners at home and to write an agreement about each man whom they begin correspondence will just stop women from contacting all men from USa.
What to do?

Thank you,
Irina 

Irina,

We have a comprehensive package, available for purchase, to address IMBRA requirements. I am attaching the Table of Contents of the 30-page document.

If you are interested in the full copy, please send me a PM.

- Dan

[Admin]

Irina,
If I am not mistaken the IMRA only requires the submission of forms and information prior to the exchange of contact info or an in real life meeting.  Since you have women over great distances I think you must find a way to use fax service backed up with real mail.  Certainly an inconvenience and more work for you, but, it should satisfy the law.

Congrats on running what sounds like a legitimate agency.  We need more like you.

Back upthread (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9107.msg170790#msg170790), I posted the basic requirements of the IMB under IMBRA. There are others, depending on the information collected from the US Client - but many are in that previous post.

As for the subject of "Signatures" there is an interesting, and notable, difference contained in the text of IMBRA. In the case where the IMB is mandated to collect information from the US Client, IMBRA requires; "... a certification signed (in written, electronic, or other form)..." - whereas the Informed Consent requirement of IMBRA states the IMB must collect from the Foreign National client, "... a signed, written consent, in the foreign national client's primary language..."

The difference in requirements is, IMO, significant - although I am not an attorney.

- Dan