Visa free travel to Europe from Ukraine

[UTRO]

Define a "well paying job" please

Lol! RW, for Kirov or for Moscow? You know that the further away from Moscow the lower the wages are... substantially.

[possum]

possum, if there were only economical reasons, poor Romania and Hungary shouldn't be ever accepted in the EU.

According to the IMF, as of 2009 Hungary has a much higher per capita GDP (at purchasing power parity) than Russia, $18,548 vs. $15,039.. As for Romania, I'm not familiar with the exact circumstances under which it was accepted into the EU, but it's per capita GDP is almost twice that of Ukraine at $11,755 and it's population is roughly two times less..

[RussianWind]

Lol! RW, for Kirov or for Moscow? You know that the further away from Moscow the lower the wages are... substantially.

I am just curious as you said she showed her well paying job and got a refusal. Neither for Moscow nor for Kirov, I am trying to put myself in a visa officer's shoes if she could afford a trip to Canada without limitation of her need. This is the way they judge. 

possum, you are right. But I don't compare these countries with Ukraine or Russia. They are poor in  comparison with other European countries.

[UTRO]

I am just curious as you said she showed her well paying job and got a refusal. Neither for Moscow nor for Kirov, I am trying to put myself in a visa officer's shoes if she could afford a trip to Canada without limitation of her need. This is the way they judge. 

possum, you are right. But I don't compare these countries with Ukraine or Russia. They are poor in  comparison with other European countries.

I understand your point RW.
I won't post her salary, but she made more than the average Woman in Kirov, had substantial savings and a father who is quite well off.
If she were in Moscow, she'd be making around $4000USD per month.

[Mir]

Ukraine should impose visa rules the same as other countries do with them.  They do this it will lead to lessened rules into EU.  Russia does this and citizens of Russia have an easier time into EU than Ukraine.

Maybe and maybe not.
The humiliation Ukrainian visa applicants have to endure is deplorable (they are not alone, those from many other countries are treated the same or worse).
It is a fact that there are more illegal immigrants to Europe from Ukraine v Russia.
It is a fact that there are more Ukrainian prostitutes in Europe then Russian.
Ukraine has also become the jump off point for illegals from many countries (Afghanistan, Pakistan etc.) to enter EU.
Due to the economic conditions in Ukraine being worse then Russia there is a higher risk of a Ukrainian to be looked at as a potential illegal immigrant when they apply for visa.
On the other hand Russians with money (may be a few yet) have brought in lots of cash to spend in European gambling houses, buying flats in London etc. Thus raising profile of Russian tourists for visa authorities.
This will continue to be the case regardless of what visa regime Ukraine adopts for tourists.
Although difficult to assess Ukraine's sex tourism has become one of the main earners of money.
Added to this is the related MOB business.
Imposing visa restrictions can damage both without provision of alternate sources of income. On the other hand improving economic conditions in Ukraine will reduce the need for Ukrainians to migrate or involve in sex trade. This will make obtaining a visa easier for them.

[Gylden]

I may have a bit of a twisted view, but IMO Russia and all of the rest (or about all) should rally to become part of the EU and put an end to all of this nonsense. IMO it would make a large enough concern to contend the American and Asian economic influence and make for a better balanced world economy.

I say this of course with a disclaimer that I am not an economist, just it seems to me to be logical.
 

[Floriana]

I don't think that visa-free travel from Ukraine to Europe will happen anytime soon - not in the next few decades, I suppose. All the reasons have been listed above - the economy, corruption, potential immigrants.
I didn't even bother applying for a Schengen visa when I could afford it because I knew I'd be rejected and that would damage my chances of getting visas to other Western countries.

[Gylden]

My wife had the same thoughts, she was so afraid, to the point I had to convince her to try. (mainly because of fellow Ukrainians who told horror stories)
I think it is just rumors about being rejected having an affect on future attempts. I believe there are posters her who have been rejected the first time and received a visa in subsequent attempts.
It is so sad to hear how this process can produce such fears.

[Shadow]

I don't think that visa-free travel from Ukraine to Europe will happen anytime soon - not in the next few decades, I suppose. All the reasons have been listed above - the economy, corruption, potential immigrants.
I didn't even bother applying for a Schengen visa when I could afford it because I knew I'd be rejected and that would damage my chances of getting visas to other Western countries.

If you look at the official guidelines, every visa application is handled separately and a rejection will not influence future chances.
Unofficially you never know what is in the computer systems...

[Shadow]

I may have a bit of a twisted view, but IMO Russia and all of the rest (or about all) should rally to become part of the EU and put an end to all of this nonsense. IMO it would make a large enough concern to contend the American and Asian economic influence and make for a better balanced world economy.

I say this of course with a disclaimer that I am not an economist, just it seems to me to be logical.
 

I am pretty sure that if Russia would state intentions of joining the EU,  some country would start pulling all its UN and NATO strings in order to prevent this from happening. 
Apart from that, many EU countries would be afraid their 'power' would become less.

There for Russia has launched a REU (Russian Economic Union) with treaties signed with Belarus and Kazachstan for free trade and removal of border control. Ukraine might be invited to join if they drop the plans for EU and NATO.

Other interesting developments are the talks between Russia and China on unifying their currency, and the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) cooperation.

[Gylden]

Hmmm....
Does anyone see the similarities?
 

I am hoping you have a sense of humor Shadow.

[Nat]

RussianWind, i don't agree  my uncle looked like a potential immigrant. First, his pension is twice as high as an average salary. Second, he is 45 (or was, when he was applying) and had a wife who is 12 years younger than him. He also has a son, who's in primary school. Third, he knows no English and has no qualifications, which could be used to work in the USA. Finally, his life is secured here - a flat, a car, pension+salary of his wife. So if the embassy thinks that he's happy to go to the USA and mop floors at the age of 45, leaving his yong wife and a child here, when he at last has time and pension, then what can he do.

[Floriana]

If you look at the official guidelines, every visa application is handled separately and a rejection will not influence future chances.
Unofficially you never know what is in the computer systems...

Officially, yes. But unofficially, it's a fact that when you're rejected by the EU it makes it much harder to get a visa to the US and vice versa.
And you see people you know being rejected on a visa officer's whim even if they satisfy all the official requirements. A firend of mine didn't get a visa to Germany a few years ago (to visit her sister) because, as the visa officer said, "Yuou're too good-looking. You'll get married and stay there!"
All of this makes you feel it's like a lottery, only you don't get punished for not winning the lottery.     

[Shadow]

Hmmm....
Does anyone see the similarities?
 

I am hoping you have a sense of humor Shadow.

Not me. My forehead is higher   

[RussianWind]

Nat, before applying for a visa, you should understand the logic of visa officers. I agree with them that not knowing your uncle personally, the risks from their point of view are too high.

First, his pension is twice as high as an average salary.

That's great. But he has no stable job he needs for living. He is free to move. He can live in the US, do some jobs there and get his guaranteed Ukrainian pension. Also twice as high as an average salary... how high is the average salary? I bet pretty small amount.

Second, he is 45 (or was, when he was applying)

He may look old to you but it's an active age for a man.

and had a wife who is 12 years younger than him.

And what? A wife can't be a guarantee of anything. People get separated and divorced all the time or he may have intentions to work in America for some period of time or to settle there, to marry a new woman or to bring his wife, whatever.

He also has a son, who's in primary school.

He is a father, not a mother. And he is not a single parent. See above.

Third, he knows no English and has no qualifications, which could be used to work in the USA.

Immigrants normally do unqualified jobs. No good English required.

Finally, his life is secured here - a flat, a car, pension+salary of his wife.

Salary of his wife is salary of his wife. Did he attach her sponsor letter to the application?
A flat and a car can be sold easily at any moment.
He also has close relatives in the US who can help him to settle down and to find a job. This is an important thing for them.

So if the embassy thinks that he's happy to go to the USA and mop floors at the age of 45, leaving his yong wife and a child here, when he at last has time and pension, then what can he do.

To get a job with a decent salary, work there at least 1 or 2 years and to try again.