Apostille questions

[Daveman]

For those with experience, how did you go about getting your apostille attachments?  Did you use a service? Or can you get them yourself from the state of issue? Can you just order new "originals" with the apostille attached or do you need to first have the originals and then send them off?


What's the US process?

[Jumper]

Dave,

any specifics?

Those needed in Ukraine, normally for the beneficiary ,
the apostille was done there.

Which ones are in need of such?
Notary?

[Daveman]

Dave,

any specifics?

Those needed in Ukraine, normally for the beneficiary ,
the apostille was done there.

Which ones are in need of such?
Notary?

Just collecting information mind you.. 



Well, let's say, for the sake of totally arbitrary discussion, that they are my documents - birth certificate, divorce decree - and for further arbitrary discussion let's say I was told by zags or rags or whatever that place is, that they have to be apostilled here in the US, then the complete documents with apostilles attached is then translated (usually there I think) and certified again... the exception to that is a document from the US Consulate in Kiev that states I am free to marry, which is then taken across town to the Ministry of Ukraine (or something like that, I can't recall right off the top of my head) to receive a stamp on that one document  there, and then someone at zags will translate THAT document. 

[Daveman]

At any rate, while searching this topic on the net, I've run across several seemingly conflicting methods (WTF?) as well as services (similar to the Russian Visa companies in a way), who charge a fee to get it done for you.  But, what I am wondering is, are they legit and worth it? or is it something a guy can easily do himself at some government office (state of issue? or federal?),  or is it something that can be done, as you suggest, there? and if so, is it better to go ahead and do it here anyway? 




Who dun did it? whad'd dey do? 

[BC]

1. You get a certified copy of the document
2. You find the government office responsible for Apostille see:

http://www.shirleylaw.com/en/resources/apostille_usa.htm

3. You submit the certified copy of the document to the Apostille authority.

Probably best to contact the Apostille authority first to clarify procedures and fees.

[BC]

Most RU ZAGS offices prefer the letter of non-impediment issued by the US consulate as the form may change from country to country.  The consulate will notarize it and then you're off to the Ministry of foreign affairs to have it 'legalized' for RU.

In theory, they should be able to able to accept this document, even if prepared elsewhere and has an apostille, but in practice things may be a bit different.  We did this route, but ZAGS insisted on the form issued by the consulate.  The one I prepared was however used 'in lieu of' until the legalized consulate version was available.

[Daveman]

Okay, so according to what I'm gleaning from that page -- the birth certificate would go to the Sec of State of the issuing state, and the Divorce Decree would go to the Office of the Clerk of the issuing jurisdiction.... is that correct? handy page there will all the phone numbers. Thanks BC!




As I understand it the copy of info page of the passport doesn't need an apostille, but just translation and their - in country - certification stamp...

[BC]

Okay, so according to what I'm gleaning from that page -- the birth certificate would go to the Sec of State of the issuing state, and the Divorce Decree would go to the Office of the Clerk of the issuing jurisdiction.... is that correct? handy page there will all the phone numbers. Thanks BC!

I can't recall a birth certificate being necessary.  A translated copy of the passport was needed.

Your divorce papers would likely first be certified by the court, then go to the Secretary of State for apostille, this in case your court clerk is not an Apostille authority.

Just think of it as a 'chain of certification'.




As I understand it the copy of info page of the passport doesn't need an apostille, but just translation and their - in country - certification stamp...
[/quote]

[BC]

I can't recall a birth certificate being necessary.  A translated copy of the passport was needed.

Your divorce papers would likely first be certified by the court, then go to the Secretary of State for apostille, this in case your court clerk is not an Apostille authority.  Reading the source link, it states:

2. U.S. Courts: Clerks and Deputy Clerks of the Federal Court System. Fee: $5.00

So I believe this would apply for Federal Court documents and not those at the state level, which a divorce certificate would be.

Just think of it as a 'chain of certification'.




As I understand it the copy of info page of the passport doesn't need an apostille, but just translation and their - in country - certification stamp...

[Jumper]

Dave-
 things change and  my info is dated.


When I married in ukriane, I did the non impedement to marry at the US consulate,
then took it to the ministry of foriegn affairs (Kiev)
 

as far as my other documents, for Zags in the provincial city..,
i brought  a notorized copy of my birth certificate
 (not exactly apostilled and why i was asking clarification.)
I brought a copy and certified translation of my passport,
along with the mentioned letter of non impedment,,
 that was it back then.

Now, one thing back then (Early 2000's) was that ZAgs had a 30 day requirement,
(must apply in person 30 days before the wedding date itself,something like this)
 However, this was easily waved ..
with a small gift of a bottle of vodka in appreciation for all the hard work reviewing the documents..  the grvna tied around the neck by accidenty likely dint have any effect.
 

[BC]

Now, one thing back then (Early 2000's) was that ZAgs had a 30 day requirement,
(must apply in person 30 days before the wedding date itself,something like this)
 However, this was easily waved ..
with a small gift of a bottle of vodka in appreciation for all the hard work reviewing the documents..  the grvna tied around the neck by accidenty likely dint have any effect.
 

Yes, back then a medical attestation of pregnancy worked to speed things up, but don't know if that would fly now days.  IMHO, today the 'reward' for hard work would be a bit more than a bottle of good spirits.

[Daveman]

Okay, I found this related to the current documentation requirements for US citizens marrying in Ukraine:


http://www.foreigndocuments.com/marriage_ukraine.html


It isn't an official Ukrainian Gov't website though

Pursuant to Article 195 of the Code of Laws on Marriage and Family of Ukraine, a citizen of a foreign state can enter into a marriage with a Ukrainian national on the territory of Ukraine on a general basis.
The local Department of Vital Statistics and Civil Status (known by the acronym "RAGS") can process an application for marriage to a Ukrainian national. Following documents are required:

• Passport (translated into the Ukrainian language);
• an apostilled Certificate of Birth (translated into the Ukrainian language);
• an apostilleв document on individual current marital status (such documents can be obtained from a district court);
• an apostilled original divorce decree if any (this document must be presented only by individuals who have been previously married. It may be represented by a Divorce Decree, Certificate of Death of one of the spouses, or a copy of the Court Judgment annulling the marriage).
• The validity of the documents mentioned (except passport) is six months; effective date is the date of issuance by the appropriate authority.
  
  [/l][/l][/l]

the marital status referenced above in bullet three is the simple letter of non-impediment that one can get from the US embassy in Kiev, and the Ministry stamp is the equivalent of the apostille, correct?

Zags/Rags still has the 30 day requirement, but a letter from your work stating you have only two weeks vacation is all that is necessary (plus the gift, vodka, and the grivna tied to the neck which doesn't matter) to waive it.  The Birth certificate may not really be required, but might as well have it and not need it.

SO actually, this is a breeze if you already have your certified documents.  Just send 'em to the correct office with a payment and the country in which they'll be used, wait for about two weeks or so, and get them back all ready for translation

Not sure what those services actually do to earn their money... convenience for extremely lazy people I guess...

DIY:  My cost: $15 for divorce decree;  $2 for birth certificate (already having the certified copies to send in)

Apostille Services: anywhere from $150-$200 per document.  Perhaps they also make that extra couple of calls for the first step of acquiring the certified documents,   Definitely a cross between an elephant and a rhino.

So at any rate, I think it's obvious that the "services" are pretty much a rip.

[Jumper]

Dave-
I believe you have it down well.


i was always convinced back then
that with  gyrvna tied to the bottle neck,
not one tiny bit of any of that mattered at all,

in fact ,in the case of  a foreigner doing most anything official there,

that finding *something* wrong to ensure the need of a bribe seemed far more
 the game at hand

so it seemed easier to provide  a small *mistake to find* and pay *approriately* ,
(no not much) then everything being in perfect order and them digging and digging .

eta ukrania..

YMMV.

 

[mendeleyev]

Our wedding was ages ago so the rules have changed a lot. I needed an Apostille for my Virginia birth certificate, California divorce decree, passport and as in those days Russian residents had a "registration" for the address where living, ZAGS also required my proof of registration even though I tried (unsuccessfully) to convince them that the USA did not require such registrations. On a Russian Foreign Ministry journalist visa in housing that required government approval, I though that they'd accept my Moscow address. Nyet. Fortunately I had a mortgage in Arizona so had that notarized as proof of my USA "registration." That however isn't a ZAGS requirement in these more modern times.

I sent off to Virginia for an original copy (raised seal/stamp) of the birth certificate and paid a service in Virginia to have the Apostille attached. For the "registration" I traveled from Moscow to Arizona and had a copy of the mortgage documents notarized, then traveled (a 1 day trip) to Los Angeles for the divorce decree. Fortunately in LA there is an office of the Secty of State of CA and I was able to obtain the Apostille at the end of the day. The longest chore was waiting in the County offices for the certified copy of the divorce decree. That was 6+ hours itself if memory serves correctly and I just made it with minutes to spare before the Secty State office closed. They were the most helpful and prompt of all.

Then drove to Arizona and spent a day at the Secty of State offices in Phoenix to Apostille my passport. Decided while there to have them Apostille my Arizona DL as well just in case the Ruskies wanted more fancy docs with official looking stamps. The more raised/embossed stamps, even if it's a Publisher's Clearing House sweepstakes form or a coupon for 15% off your next trip to Burger King can really impress some of the older folks who remember the official stamps needed for the smallest of tasks back in the CCCP.

ZAGS has no requirement for a DL Apostille but I was glad it was done because it seemed to impress the ZAGS clerk back in Moscow as she carefully scrutinized my mortgage address "registration" and compared the address listed to the one on my DL. I managed to suppress a smile.

We were under the ZAGS 30 day rule at the time: 30 calendar days must pass between the time a couple registers for a ceremony and the actual ceremony date. Because both of us are practicing Russian Orthodox we also had to delay our wedding dinner and honeymoon. We were married first in the ZAGS civil ceremony in late December so that our children would be out of school and take part in the ceremony and gathering of relatives. As no celebration can take place during a major fast, as the 40 day Nativity fast (same is true at Easter), our church ceremony came later and the wedding dinner celebration and honeymoon took place the day after Christmas, 7 January when the fast had ended. Some of the relatives had to come back to Moscow for the dinner (most did!) and a few stayed with us and/or with close by family members in the 11 days between. It was actually pretty cool.

One cousin who stayed with us observed most of the fast religiously except the prohibition on alcohol. He loves beer and proclaimed it unpatriotic to have a wedding without beer. So he'd eat just like a good practicing Orthodox but drank beer like it was water. With that tradition of no empty beer bottles on a table, the walls along the floor of our main living/bedroom, the kitchen and the hallway were usually lined with empty Baltika bottles during his stay.

[mendeleyev]

Excellent list here: http://www.waytorussia.net/Practicalities/Marriage.html


More info here: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12073.msg254556#msg254556


Today you shouldn't have to bribe anyone regarding the 30 day rule as both ZAGS (Russia) and RAGS (Ukraine) allow exceptions based on circumstances and a groom who doesn't live in-country is an acceptable exception. Just have the fiance explain and apply for it.

[Wayne]

If you plan to marry in Crimea, you need to complete a second set of documents as there is a seperate govenment. Also, the waiting period is several months as zags is backed up because many people want to marry in Crimea.
 
There also was additional requirement of medical testing and psychological testing and notarized results. I don't know if this is only Crimea or all Ukraine.
 
Suggest your girl go to her zags and find out all the details. Don't trust anything from a website.
 
For me, the apostille only cost $1 per document. Certified copies of divorce papers from the county clerk cost so much per page. This can all be done on the spot if you apply in person, otherwise it could take several weeks to do it by mail.
 
The letter on non-impediment needs to be translated into Ukrainian as does everyghing else. You should plan to do this in Ukraine. The notary in Ukraine, which is required, charges a lot!
 
Bribes could be much more than a bottle of vodka. Remember, vodka is very cheap in Ukraine.