Sex without love - American style?

[Daveman]

Well, like I said above, different generations, different locations, different experiences.

I've seen plenty of youngsters influenced during their first year of college, changing their attitudes towards premarital sex, casual sex, bisexual experimentation, drugs, smoking, religion, you name it, and I've seen plenty of people change their attitudes towards these much later in life as well.

I just find it interesting that for some here, the attitudes Nat is asking about are 'only on tv'. That's how I felt about the Jerry Springer show until I tried online dating in Nevada. Life imitating art, art imitating life, both imitating crud? I dunno.

Yeah, it's a bit of the chicken/egg question.  Certainly it does happen (the mimicry, the exceptions, the truly bizarre) and it's a topic I've not researched more than superficially at best, but I just don't see anything on TV as truly having "the norm" potential as the attitudes portrayed are widely varied and often multifaceted.  TV tends to emphasize the extremes as I am sure that is where the most interesting entertainment plots reside.  "Reality TV" seems to have less cohesion to reality than the most remarkable fantasy fiction.  And of course the influence of video game content cannot be discarded as an emerging factor.  

The Norm, if individually plotted as points on a graph, would form an ever shifting curve as regions as well as society evolve.

[Nat]

Thanks everybody for your explanations - it's very educating... and strange in the same time It's amazing how attitudes can differ from society to society

When a person LOVES another with a commitment, that is a purchase (although an emotional one); and brings with it an associated "status" like what kind of car you drive.  So, people in the USA are very very very careful not to become associated too fast, or carelessly ( you want to make sure you are driving the best and most expensive car possible).

Oh, come on, everybody understands that commitment in most cases is not for the rest of your life, so if you're a materialistic type of person, you can go for the better "car" when you meet him/her I don't think this is the reason.

[Daveman]

I thought seeing each other exclusively for several months and doing different stuff together every day is already a commitment 

Coming back to the above... and adding this:

Thanks everybody for your explanations - it's very educating... and strange in the same time It's amazing how attitudes can differ from society to society

But can an individual actually be sexually representative of a society? Maybe, but I'm not so sure... the individual variances could possibly be too great... and maybe not...

Certainly the former quote is true, for myself at least.  In fact, IMO, add in communication (deep) and the insanity of laughing together ( a LOT) and you have what are the "symptoms" of a Daveman committed relationship... now, I certainly wouldn't kick a woman out of bed (unless, of course, she's quite talented on the floor) but "getting in the bed" in the first place is, for me, more of single aspect of the above - a natural part of the overall relational equation.  Take out any single element and it really doesn't work for me. I wouldn't say I'm in the majority but I am sure that there are plenty of people (women AND men) who prefer sex within the bubble of "love".

I will also add (just to put myself squarely in the minority I'm sure) that I've never actually had a one night stand.  It just doesn't interest me much (other than some wild fantasies upon which I've never acted) and when the opportunity has presented itself, I've opted for conversation or parting as opposed to just having sex for kicks.  The chase and all that entails is a very large part of the greater eroticism for me, though I would also say that the self denial of some erotic fulfillment is very much a conscious choice (cold shower time(s)) which probably goes squarely against the natural order of things...

That being said, I can also add that I'm sure I've gotten involved in some relationships in my life simply because I wanted sex.. which led to some weird and perhaps caustic situations which could have been avoided or averted by some serious casual sex and flaming, paint peeling orgasms.  .    So, my American way is neither better nor worse, but rather an individual experience based on an attitude which would represent a single point on the curve.

Add in a few casual flings/stands along the path here and there, along with the desire overall to have a committed love relationship and you would probably have what would be, a little more or less, the recipe for the American Norm.  Perhaps... but as perceived from the viewpoint of One Weirdass American... 

[Nat]

But can an individual actually be sexually representative of a society? Maybe, but I'm not so sure... the individual variances could possibly be too great... and maybe not...

Well, you see, that's what is called difference Yes, here in these countries people can also have sex without love, one night stand, be friends with benefits and so on. But this given situation would be a total nonsense in our society. And in the US society it's one of the possible variants, according to comments

[Daveman]

Well, you see, that's what is called difference Yes, here in these countries people can also have sex without love, one night stand, be friends with benefits and so on. But this given situation would be a total nonsense in our society. And in the US society it's one of the possible variants, according to comments

Just to clarify, which given situation? someone "breaking up" because of a declaration of love though they have already been having sex for months? 

[Nat]

Just to clarify, which given situation? someone "breaking up" because of a declaration of love though they have already been having sex for months?  

Yes! Having sex, hanging around together and seeing each other exclusively for months.

[GQBlues]

Yes! Having sex, hanging around together and seeing each other exclusively for months.

That's typically qualifies as dating in the US. A couple can be dating each other intimately without ever having to discuss marriage. There are also couples who co-habitate (live together) for a time without ever seriously discussing marriage. Marriage is NOT a pre-requisite to any relationship.

Some people in fact may have strong feelings for someone but not enough for marriage. So they have a relationship with that person for as long as it's mutually convenient.

Unlike in FSU, where an average 'young' single person will more likely still be living with their parents/relatives; in the US it's normal for young kids to leave the comfort of home and parental care at around the age of 18-20. Thus, they're pretty much entitled to make decisions on how to live their lives without having to infringe on family members.

I am as suprised at some of the replies in this thread, as much as I am surprised at your reaction to a TV show about 'sex without marriage' considering the strong presence of mistresses in FSU.

[Gator]

.....  Much of our problems just resolve to the fascination with the golden disc rather than the truth that stands behind it.   

Your observations resemble Buddhist teachings, pursuit of pleasure vs. the pursuit of happiness/satisfaction from a deep inner balance; however, I have no idea what you mean by "golden disk." 

The joy of sex and the sense of contentment after a fantastic orgasm is fulfilling  even if short lived. A couple of RW have referred to this as  кайф, something that does not translate well.

[Nat]

That's typically qualifies as dating in the US. A couple can be dating each other intimately without ever having to discuss marriage. There are also couples who co-habitate (live together) for a time without ever seriously discussing marriage. Marriage is NOT a pre-requisite to any relationship.

Did you read the opening post or just decided to participate? If you did, show me where it goes about marriage there.

[GQBlues]

Did you read the opening post or just decided to participate? If you did, show me where it goes about marriage there.

True.

But the inevitable conclusion to falling in love will generally be to get married. The latter being likely more the ultimate aversion than the former.

But either way, yes, in America people have sex without the implication of, suggestions of, hopeful for, assumption of, an inspiration of  'falling in love' and/or get married.

Matter of fact, guys and gals sometimes have sex simply because it's the natural thing to do. Shocking as that may be for others. So sometimes gals have sex with men because they're horny and/or simply convenient vis-a-vis. Once, a few times, or for a few months/years with one partner.

Urbanspeak: Shacking up.

Is this really different in Ukraine or elsewhere?

[Nat]

True.

But the inevitable conclusion to falling in love will generally be to get married. The latter being likely more the ultimate aversion than the former.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

UPD: Oh, so that's the deal! If you say you love somebody in the USA, you have to marry him or her?! Well, then of course I understand why she freaked out.

[GQBlues]

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

I used to break out in hives when a woman I'm occasionally/periodically/habitually having sex with, all of the sudden tells me she's falling in love with me. Heck, sometimes I skip a heartbeat when they simply make the suggestion or mention of the word 'love' during sex.

WHY? Because in a given small amount of time, if left ignored - "Let's get married" or "I stopped taking the pill" follows shortly thereafter...everytime.

Mention the word 'love' more than once on the same session, the hives start breaking out. The most effective antihistamine I found was an over-the counter J&J drug called 'DitchDABiyatch'. Apply generously over the affected person and leave, it'll never happen again. Works everytime.

[GQBlues]

UPD: Oh, so that's the deal! If you say you love somebody in the USA, you have to marry him or her?! Well, then of course I understand why she freaked out.

Close, but not always. It also depends on the gender. That particular show you referred to sounds to me as though the gal liked the guy enough to shack up with him, but chances are he doesn't quite cut the mustard as far as being a good hubby. That happens in real life here, yes.

Of course, with many of these men, especially those who doesn't really get to free Willy as much as they would like to, falling in love with a woman after having sex for the first time only happens on days the ends with the letter 'y'.

Life's a gambit in the USA.

[Faux Pas]

I used to break out in hives when a woman I'm occasionally/periodically/habitually having sex with, all of the sudden tells me she's falling in love with me. Heck, sometimes I skip a heartbeat when they simply make the suggestion or mention of the word 'love' during sex.

WHY? Because in a given small amount of time, if left ignored - "Let's get married" or "I stopped taking the pill" follows shortly thereafter...everytime.

Mention the word 'love' more than once on the same session, the hives start breaking out. The most effective antihistamine I found was an over-the counter J&J drug called 'DitchDABiyatch'. Apply generously over the affected person and leave, it'll never happen again. Works everytime.

At one point I could've OD'D on it numerous times

[BC]

I used to break out in hives when a woman I'm occasionally/periodically/habitually having sex with, all of the sudden tells me she's falling in love with me. Heck, sometimes I skip a heartbeat when they simply make the suggestion or mention of the word 'love' during sex.

Boy oh boy... I remember that sinking feeling in my stomach when such happened..  like 'run Forrest.. run!

I remember well what my wife said back then.. something like 'I'm a little scared' which of course was answered with a 'Why?'.. then she told me 'Because I don't know what I'll do (emotionally) when you're gone'.. as if I would never come back or we'd never see each other again.

Pretty darn slick.. hook line and sinker..

[GoodOlBoy]

About half of all American teens leave high school as virgins.

Do your statistics include Bill Clinton's (aka sick slick Willie) "definition" of sex??  :evil:

GOB

PS Boethius...I read an article somewhere (a while back) that an ALARMING number of young teenage girls in the GoodOl' USA are having oral sex (doing the Monica) with boys in HS because they claimed it wasn't really sex.

[vwrw]

The thing I don't get is: is that a normal, common sequence of how relationship works in the US? Do Americans first start going out, having sex, and then (may be, which isn't obligatory) fall in love? Is having sex without love normal? Is falling in love considered to be some kind of weakness or undesirable behaviour? Or am I missing here something?

Going out, feeling lust, having sex, and then may be falling in love is a normal and common sequence of how relationships develop in countries with liberated women, including US, Ukraine, and other.

Falling in love takes at least several months. However, interfering lust prevents people from keeping their pants on. As result, people often engage in sexual activities before love develops.

Falling in love is not considered to be undesirable behavior as far as the love is mutual or reciprocated. Otherwise, yes, it is not desirable because the loved may feel obliged to care for the feelings of the loving. It can be burdensome and joy-killing.

[IAmZon]

WOW - I really appreciate this group for its intellectual power and clear thinking (I hope this does not trigger a flow of posts that are stupid and petty, which is also commonplace here)

[Shostakovich]

Your observations resemble Buddhist teachings, pursuit of pleasure vs. the pursuit of happiness/satisfaction from a deep inner balance; however, I have no idea what you mean by "golden disk." 

The joy of sex and the sense of contentment after a fantastic orgasm is fulfilling  even if short lived. A couple of RW have referred to this as  кайф, something that does not translate well.

"The truth is hidden by a golden disk".  That does indeed reflect an Asiatic or ascetic attitude to the notion of truth.  The idea is that, if you are always going about with your mind in the this and that, you become like the child on the seashore who remains fascinated by a fragment of seashell as the ocean goes un noticed.  It can be a long subject, or a really short one: the words of my favorite now ring; "on this I have much to be silent about".  Indeed, words are for the heavy minded.  I am not certain about the Buddhist connection, but it is the validity of the idea not the ism it comes from that is the important thing.

As for the big O, another long subject.  You know, when in O your breath flows equally through both nostrils - same thing happens, they say, during the transcendental moment.  A curtain is drawn, something glimmers.  Sex for most is not much more than nature's ruse to bring the next generation online.  A bit of goo gets squirted about, attended by much groping of flesh.  But if it is your portion to have experienced a bit of the transcendental during sex then consider yourself lucky.  Use it, cultivate it. 

[Boethius]

Do your statistics include Bill Clinton's (aka sick slick Willie) "definition" of sex??  :evil:

GOB

PS Boethius...I read an article somewhere (a while back) that an ALARMING number of young teenage girls in the GoodOl' USA are having oral sex (doing the Monica) with boys in HS because they claimed it wasn't really sex.

Based on this study, it's just a little more than half.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/JAH_Lindberg.pdf

[Daveman]

Yes! Having sex, hanging around together and seeing each other exclusively for months.

Okay, well there are actually three parallel assertions/questions running concurrently in the thread.. two from you and the third about TV in general...

Your two:
"Sex without love - American Style?" -- the thread topic, and then the "people having sex for months and one bails after a declaration of love"

You've agreed that sex without love is common in your area as well as here (addressing the thread title) and I would bet that the second scenario is more normal than nonsense there as well.  When the oven gets too hot, people bail, for a variety of reasons... perhaps not immediately after hearing "I love you", but for the equivalent relational pressure -- whatever form it takes -- one wants more than the other wants to give, so the other bails and moves on... 

[Nat]

You've agreed that sex without love is common in your area as well as here

Dave, don't make up additional sense. I said it existed. I didn't say it was common.

[Daveman]

Dave, don't make up additional sense. I said it existed. I didn't say it was common.

Ooops. My mistake. Allow me the opportunity to rephrase and morph the assertion entirely, please...

It may be common there among large age gap relationships developing through international marriage agencies with one partner bailing after the declaration of shallower pockets than originally presumed!