RW and nerdy men

[Daveman]

...There's just nothing I can do internally to change it. ..

Well then, call in your friendly neighborhood INFP to help... send me $20 and I'll heal that mess right up.. 

[Shostakovich]

Shostakovich, I really don't know if we can or cannot rely on MBTI studies and information posted on the website of the Myers and Briggs Foundation. They say: "The estimated frequency table was compiled from a variety of MBTIŽ results from 1972 through 2002, including data banks at the Center for Applications of Psychological Type; CPP, Inc; and Stanford Research Institute (SRI)" and in the total: E - 49,3%, I - 50,7%.   

A quandary.  Then again the MBTI is only a psych theory that is only as good as its inventor's original inspiration.  There is little objective ground here.  Read Jung's tome 'Psychological Types' if you want more info.  The origins of the 'iNtuitive' type are interesting as Jung was acquainted with the esoteric symbolism of numbers.  3 is the number of natural phenomenon and Sensation, Feeling, Thinking enable one to get around well enough in the world, but 4 is the number of transcendence and thus the 4th function, intuition, provides the means through which one may escape the confines of the concrete world and move beyond it. 

The reason I stick with Keirsey is not due to any strong belief in his methods but because his 75% Extroversion claim seems to square with my own experience.  That is the important thing here - to develop a theory that models experience.  It probably varies quite a bit with region in the US.  More extroverts in the South and West, more introverts in the North and East.

[vwrw]

INTJ, represents about 1% of the population.

And they comprise 37% of those in the top 2% of IQ (the score 130 or higher ) and about 50 % of those with IQ of 150 and higher. Although high IQ is not a reliable indicator of success (as difined or seen by the majority) beyond educational institutions, I am still so proud of my type.

[Shostakovich]

Ya, INTJ -- we're the cheese.  The stat you conveniently left of the glorious INTJ picture is that we are the type most prone to troubles on the relationship front as we view it as an exercise in cost-function optimization. 

[SANDRO43]

Read Jung's tome 'Psychological Types' if you want more info.

A LONG time since I last read it, but IINM his introvert/extrovert diagnosis also included an interesting prognosis: i.e. the extroverts are 'winners' in the first part of their lives at the expense of introverts who are 'losers', then later in life their roles are reversed since the latter have spent more time in introspection about life while the former kept repeating their winning acts with less and less success, and are then too rooted in their ways to question/understand while these no longer work as they used to do.

A sort of poetic existential justice at work, with introverts as late-blooming flowers .

[Daveman]

A LONG time since I last read it, but IINM his introvert/extrovert diagnosis also included an interesting prognosis: i.e. the extroverts are 'winners' in the first part of their lives at the expense of introverts who are 'losers', then later in life their roles are reversed since the latter have spent more time in introspection about life while the former kept repeating their winning acts with less and less success, and are then too rooted in their ways to question/understand while these no longer work as they used to do.

A sort of poetic existential justice at work, with introverts as late-blooming flowers .

I also found fascinating Jung's Archetypes of "phases" - Athlete, Warrior, Statesman, Spirit. Hell, we can see all of those characters here on the forum..  :evil: 

[GQBlues]

.....know that I am still deep in the research stage of a FSUW as a possibility. I have been reading all over the internet about this since the latter part of 2009, and even so, I still haven't come to a conclusion yet. I am fully aware of everything you mention in your post. I am not even in my 30's yet (which, as I'm sure you know, most people will say that I am too young to embark on this journey) with a budding career and I don't plan on even thinking about acting on this for at least a few more years or until I am deep into my 30's. Nowhere did I mention that I am looking to set a plan in concrete any time soon. I am doing all of the research now so that I won't be wasting any time when I do reach the point in my life where I am ready to start looking at this as an option....

I'm sorry defrag, but maybe it's just me...

I find the statement above rather 'curious' if not 'contradictory'. You're doing your due diligence now, *in case* the FSU option *may* be something that will be an option for you some day - *so that you don't waste your time 10+/- years from now when you do start *looking*....so it's somehow 'OK' to waste your time now for something that may or may not be applicable to something that may or may not be an option for you...someday...who knows...

???

You must be a *nerd*  


question: What's the differnce between a 'nerd' and a 'geek'?

[OlgaH]

A quandary.  Then again the MBTI is only a psych theory that is only as good as its inventor's original inspiration.  There is little objective ground here.  Read Jung's tome 'Psychological Types' if you want more info.  

I would not call the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator a psych theory, but as the founders stated it is an instrument based on the Jung's theories to make his theory of psychological types understandable, accessible and useful.

Like Daveman I also find Jung's Archetypes to be fascinating and his other theories as well. Several times when I was reading Jung I caught myself on recalling "images" from life like an explanatory to some events and actions, and it is always interesting to see some correlation between theories and reality.

I think one test is not enough to determine a person's Type, probably just for a general idea. There should be several tests performed and better in different periods of time to get more accurate picture. But anyway when I was reading about my Type after one test I found a close correspondence.

Sorry, I can not comment on Keirsey, but I find his description of my Type to be very close. But of course after one test I cannot be sure about my Type   

[dbneeley]

At one point in this conversation, I was accused of "disparaging" Meyers-Briggs. That was not my point.

Any of this kind of analysis is helpful to give some insights perhaps, but is far from completely descriptive. Also, because humans are mutable, they can and do change with life experience.

On the other hand, quite often these kinds of designations are used by some to create limits in their view of themselves and their possibilities in life. Just as in the long-standing debate about which is more important--genetics or experience ("nature" vs. "nurture"), any single view of personality or character is a limited tool at best. To live one's life because of any sort of belief in a pre-destined future due to a notion of personality type simply sets up in the person's mind the notion that he cannot change or have substantial control of his own future destiny. That is demonstrably untrue in countless cases.

There's a man who has been around several of the RW mail lists for some years now who has bought into the theory of "SMV" (sexual market value) to attempt to explain why people are attracted to others, despite the fact that it is terribly incomplete and never designed for individual cases to begin with. For him, however, it has become largely an excuse for his lack of success--or, more properly, for his frequent lack of trying.

Any of these attempts at measurement and description can only carry one so far. Beyond that, they become both a cage and too often an excuse. If you gain some insight into yourself with the MBI, fine. To believe it is a complete explanation and puts limits on what you can achieve in life, though, is quite unfortunate.

So--my position all along is that it is an interesting and often useful tool so long as you don't go overboard with the notion. People are far more complex than any relatively simple view may permit.

David

[defrag010]

Yeah, GQ, I'm full of contradictions and quite a few people have become frustrated when they try to understand what makes me tick.    
I like to research things that pique my interest solely for the sake of being knowledgeable, but a search for a FSUW does have some merit because I am honestly looking into it as an option while I slowly become fed up with and lose hope for the 20-something single scene. That's a whole other can of worms that hasn't been opened yet, though. I'll tell you two things that opened my eyes to the people and culture of the FSU. I shared a math class in college with an exchange student named Kateryna who is probably one of the most gorgeous women I've ever met in my life. It started out as "Why on EARTH is this beautiful siren even giving me the time of day???!??!", because that just does NOT happen here with the gorgeous native women, but she was just so incredibly genuine that it blew my mind, and she taught me a little bit about the culture. She had lived in Russia, Germany, and the Ukraine prior to ending up in Oklahoma. Then, I got the chance to work with a middle aged man named Ben Sednev, who had immigrated here from Russia in search of a better life. I have never in my life met anyone with as good of a character as he has. I learned a lot about life from him. He worked his @ss off installing engines (that I rebuilt) into cars and brought home about 1k$ a week.. but somehow he was able to afford a nice big house in the suburbs and all of his kids drove bimmers. He taught me some russian words (we used to call the bums that walked down the alley behind work "gryaznyi zhopa", which he said meant "dirty @ss"). These two people were such a contrast to the majority of the native Oklahomans I have met throughout my life and really affected my perspective. After Ben moved to Washington, I started to read about Russian culture and that's when I became interested in the possibility of FSU women.

dbneeley, I understand your point of view about settling into a personality type and how it can cause people to limit themselves, but after years of introspection I began to notice that all of these tendencies/traits common to an INFJ had been present in my life ever since I was a young child before any influence. I think it's legitimate for me to say that I know myself well enough to realize that I'm not limiting myself in any way.

[SANDRO43]

Any of these attempts at measurement and description can only carry one so far.

Also because they are 'snapshots/still photos', whereas personality is probably more like a film .

Reminds me of the cloud typologies shown in meteo textbooks:

Depending on circumstances, what is temporarily a bland stratus may evolve all the way to a towering cumulonimbus.

Hey, how about a cloud-based classification of personalities? Are you a fog or cirrus type ?

[Rubicon]

defrag, if you do your research now but wait years to act on it than your research could be waaay out of date and worthless in this endeavor.  suppose the Ukrainian Russian economy gets better but the US  dollar crashes and nobody wants to move to the US anymore as it will be a dying country.  that might sound extreme but the point is things could certainly change.  In the past I sold a lot of consumer goods.  We would get people like you who thought they were doing research and come in with their Consumers Reports wanting the exact model that CR had tested.  Unfortunately CR did not spend money on advertising so all of the products they tested were one or two years old and long discontinued.  The people who thought they had been so clever in doing their "research" would aggravate the salespeople for an hour or so insisting that we wave a magic wand and produce a long discontinued model.  than they would finally give up with that ridiculous expectation and leave without buying anything.  Point being that the only way to really find out if this is your cup of tea is to get on an airplane and go over there and meet somebody NOW. 

[Lily]

defrag010, thank you for your post and illustrations. Yes, I am of the same opinion that the best Russians add to the American society quite a lot, and sometimes present a nice contrast to a number of mediocre natives. That makes me proud

[GQBlues]

There's nothing really wrong with being diligent to what you feel is important to you. I pretty much do the same with many things I take interest to. I will however caution you, especially in the endeavor you're pursuing now, that you're tapping into something that carries a lot variables. Human nature can be pretty tricky and fickle...though I'm sure you already know that. 

......I shared a math class in college with an exchange student named Kateryna who is probably one of the most gorgeous women I've ever met in my life. It started out as "Why on EARTH is this beautiful siren even giving me the time of day???!??!", because that just does NOT happen here with the gorgeous native women, but she was just so incredibly genuine that it blew my mind, and she taught me a little bit about the culture. She had lived in Russia, Germany, and the Ukraine prior to ending up in Oklahoma....

Which begs the question, defrag...where's Ms. Kateryna now? Any chances of 'pursuing' her, if not as GF, as someone to befriend?

...Then, I got the chance to work with a middle aged man named Ben Sednev, who had immigrated here from Russia in search of a better life. I have never in my life met anyone with as good of a character as he has. I learned a lot about life from him....

I know the story all to well, as I also had a mirroring experience with a couple of 'younger' RMs I (we) met. They helped us (for hire) move into our home. One of them owned his own moving truck, and both he and his friend (both from Kazan) do this for a living here. It's hard work, dude. I hate 'moving'. Those guys worked so hard I sort of gravitated towards befriending both of them. When the move was over, I decided to take them out to dinner and they stayed around a while after just to chat...since then, they've been over a few times at the house for parties we kick around now and then and had since become 'part of our Ruskie circle'.

Cool dudes.

Lastly: Oklahoma, eh? You guys will have it easy with the Grizzlies, but you ain't getting past my Lakers, man. Again. 

[dbneeley]

dbneeley, I understand your point of view about settling into a personality type and how it can cause people to limit themselves, but after years of introspection I began to notice that all of these tendencies/traits common to an INFJ had been present in my life ever since I was a young child before any influence. I think it's legitimate for me to say that I know myself well enough to realize that I'm not limiting myself in any way.

Defrag--As always in forum threads, it is nearly impossible to be comprehensive in presenting any situation. I have seen things like these MBI classifications become limits for others, so I simply wanted to point this out in case it *might* apply.

We all have traits that become habitual over time; some are not productive at all, while some are extremely helpful. The key seems to me to be that we can be in control of those habitual traits if we choose to--although the truly ingrained ones are extremely difficult to overcome until we build new habits and outlooks. I simply believe it's a mistake to decide we are powerless to change in needed directions.

I also think others are correct that trying to do this particular kind of homework so far in advance is at least somewhat nonproductive.

However, there is a middle ground. As you have already found, there are FSUW in America already. With a little effort, I have little doubt you can meet some of them--even to add to your dating options in some cases. A friend of mine who is also on this forum is from Oklahoma City. He is engaged to a lady near Donetsk (where I live); they will marry in September and begin the process for her to emigrate to the States. You may find him quite worth getting to know for another perspective. PM me and I'll give you his contact info.

David