Some help,opinions,feedback wanted

[Daveman]

I agree with ML. Although there are all kinds of women in the FSU one of the biggest differences between AW and RW is that on average RW expect a man to take charge and be the aggressor. AM have been conditioned to sit back and wait for a woman to make the first move or be perceived as "too aggressive" and "creepy".

If she's attracted, and he's being assertive then he's 'being a man' - here, there or anywhere and it really is quite difficult to screw that situation up because everything he does is pretty darn cool whereas if she's not so attracted, she tends to nitpick and define behavior in very different ways. In fact, a major part of her attraction is in how confident he comes across to her, which is just an aspect of self assertion. Perhaps there is a type of societal conditioning going on, but regardless, an AW likes for a man to whom she's attracted to take the lead too.  And for clarification, we're talking something like "confidently asserting what he wants" as opposed to being a jerk (if she were highly attracted, he may not be such a jerk either -- though everyone else may see him that way.)


AND conversely, if she's not attracted, that same assertive behavior takes on the negative "overly aggressive, etc." label.


I can't think of *any* woman who really wants to make the first moves.  She may do it (first move) because it is much less taboo now for her to do so, but, it certainly wouldn't be her fantasy desire. There is surely an exception or two somewhere out there but those haven't been anywhere near my experience either.

[ML]

I'll see your disagree and raise a "definitely not my experience".

Dave, please clarify;  are you agreeing with me or disagreeing.

I'll see you and raise you
 

• Used to accept a bet, and at the same time raise the stakes. I'll see your five and raise you ten.I'll see your bet and raise you one thousand.I'll see your $20 and raise you $200.
• More generally, used when someone produces or reveals something. One says this to announce they will answer by producing or revealing something of their own. I'll see your defective gallbladder and raise you one heart murmur and a kidney stone.Well, sir, I'll see your four months in Vietnam and raise you the twenty years I spent serving as an Air Force pilot flying in conflicts as far-ranging as Grenada, Somalia, Bosnia, and Haiti.I'll see your gigabyte and raise you a terabyte.

[ML]

If she's attracted, and he's being assertive then he's 'being a man' - here, there or anywhere and it really is quite difficult to screw that situation up because everything he does is pretty darn cool whereas if she's not so attracted, she tends to nitpick and define behavior in very different ways. In fact, a major part of her attraction is in how confident he comes across to her, which is just an aspect of self assertion. Perhaps there is a type of societal conditioning going on, but regardless, an AW likes for a man to whom she's attracted to take the lead too.  And for clarification, we're talking something like "confidently asserting what he wants" as opposed to being a jerk (if she were highly attracted, he may not be such a jerk either -- though everyone else may see him that way.)

Dave, have you been drinking (more than usual) tonight?

I can't follow your writing in this thread.

Here you say AW; is that what you meant?

[Patagonie]

Agree 100%
I did find it helpful to chat with many on my short list on Skype before making the trip.  It helped sort out the personalities and prioritize what order to visit them.  You can also ask some tough questions to see how serious they are about marriage and immigration, their history, baggage, etc.
Not foolproof but in my opinion time well spent.  I agree, once you have locked onto a few good prospects, make the trip ASAP.

Your comments about lack of intimacy in the beginning are not well understood by many newbies.  The ones that jumped into bed right away were not interested in a long term relationship, just a curious roll in the hay with a foreigner.  It took about a week before my current G/F warmed up.  I was ready to give her the boot, but all the other signals were positive, so I waited it out.  I am very glad I did.  She is a real gem, just doesn't get intimate until she knows you well enough to decide to go to the next step.  Your advice to let the woman decide when it is time to get intimate is true gold advice.  It has to be a real problem for guys going only for 2 weeks vacation and planning to meet multiple women.  Another reason to have a lot of Skype time beforehand.  2 weeks might be enough time to court 2 women (a primary and a backup), but my revised opinion is that it will take more than one week for any gal that you want to take seriously and she responds in the same way.  The 'candy shop' approach might be good for a sex tourist but inadequate for trying to find a great women to be your life partner.

BTW, I have been experimenting with several Skype translator programs to determine which one I like best.  A real-time two way translator for Skype can turn a one hour conversation using a cut and paste translator into a 10 minute chat.  After a few days I will post on a new thread my findings. So far the best one I have found is a paid program, but it is very reasonable.  All of the free ones have characteristics I do not like or are unreliable (such as stopping to work in the middle of a conversation).  LOL

"Your advice to let the woman decide when it is time to get intimate is true gold advice"
I don't think it was that the OP wanted to say.

The OP wrote : "They don't hug when they first meet you, be patient and let them make the first move."

The first move ? It is not sex, it is only for many western men who don't know to read women, an absolute, clear and strong signal from the woman who shows without misunderstandings that you can go.
But before this strong signal, there are many you don't see. 

The main difference between RW and western women is that western women "hide" their attraction as possible (generally). RW let it go and are more natural. So it is easier to let them show you. With a western women you can wait for a decade.

For the classical policy which says : girls who go to bed quickly are not serious this is shit. You had had an experience and i had had on the field the exact opposite. The only thing wich count is : "me, as woman, am i ready to settle down now, and does this guy is enough attracting to put all my focus on him ?" The rest is shit.

In my second post i give more clarification about "move" in accordance whith the interesting post of Eduard.

[Patagonie]

I agree with ML. Although there are all kinds of women in the FSU one of the biggest differences between AW and RW is that on average RW expect a man to take charge and be the aggressor. AM have been conditioned to sit back and wait for a woman to make the first move or be perceived as "too aggressive" and "creepy". Definitely not the case in the FSU where a man is still expected to be a man. If a RW likes a man and is there (on a date) with him for the right reasons she expects him to make the first move and be "convincing" and a little pushy. Many RW really like that.

However I can see how a man being a man (the way it used to be in the US before Feminism) can be perceived differently in a MOB agency setting where much of the time women go on dates with men they don't know or have no real romantic interest in. Obviously it would seem creepy to a woman who is there just because she is getting paid to go out with him and has no clue who he is if a guy tries to go for a kiss or a warm hug (because he assumes that she's been writing all those warm letters to him for a few months and that they got something real going on).
It is understandable how a man who has no real world FSU dating experience and only experienced MOB agency dating would come to this conclusion.

In fact there are no difference between AW and RW.
They all absolutely wait the men takes initiative.
But what is true is that AM, and Eduard is absolutely right about this, AM had been now conditionned to sit back.
As Eduard said RW will have no way to forgive you if you don't play your role.
Eduard :"If a RW likes a man and is there (on a date) with him for the right reasons she expects him to make the first move and be "convincing" and a little pushy. Many RW really like that."
In fact AW also like it, don't believe what he is writing in books, magazines, movies and ESPECIALLY don't pay attention to what AW said. It is not 25 years of feminism, who is going to change how attraction works, which started 3000 years ago. Nothing has changed since 3000 years, just many sources let it believe you. It had pushed many (80% at least in my opinion) western men in a flabby/wussy mode.
Eduard tells (correct me if i am wrong) : don't use this way with RW. They are real women who expect you to be real men.

Many men don't understand that there is not A move.
There is not such a thing : if you know a woman from 5 months in a platonic love and suddenly you grab her bobbies or try to kiss her in the lift i have many doubt that you will be successful.
Things are like climbing, step after step you escalate towards intimicay and you can do this as soon as enough comfort had been settled.
The biggest crash stories in definitive are because guys are not in the approach to evaluate the lady's interest AND/OR  they don't how to check lady's interest
When you know if a lady is not interested in you, you don't loose your time : you find an other one. But many guys stayed stucked in this crap. It is why, on the field, the dishonest (not all are) MOB agencies make good business with so huge  scam activity .

[Patagonie]

  I am moving forward in my plans to head to the FSU.  I have already made a few mistakes. I started contacting women that I was interested in without seeing where they lived. Once I looked at the map I realized there was no way I was going to be do that much traveling. Another problems is that I have been contacting a couple to often...everyday.

 From what I understand no visa is needed to visit Ukraine....so I decided I want to go there. So now I have been searching for women from Donetsk and Lugansk who speak at least some english...or so they say and have just been putting them in "my favorites" I plan to contact them after I buy tickets. From reading on here its usually the cheapest to purchase tickets 3-4 weeks in advance. My plan is to fly from Minneapolis to Donestk and visit there and then go to Lugansk by taxi or rent a car. Airfare looks to be about 1,200.00

 I would like to rent a car. I looked at some of the cheaper rentals (50-60 per day) but they are those little tiny cars that I would never be caught dead in here. I would be to embarrassed. But....I have no clue how Ukrainians view those little cars. Maybe they think they are the bomb? Some help here would be appreciated.

  My tenative plan is to go for 9 days. The one woman I really want to meet(as of today) lives in Lugansk. I would plan to visit her last. I have no plans for an interpretuer....but I understand Jack lives around there somewhere so if things to to out of control (ie lost) I think I could call him or reach out to the RWD community for some help.
 I have purchased a camera and set up skype. Have not used it yet.

 I understand its best to buy a cheap phone over there as my phone will probably not work? Will my laptop work fine over there?

  I am kind of a "wing it" guy and this may be a "crash and burn"  or a "one trip wonder" but I am sure I will remember it. It will definetly take me out of my comfort zone.

 One concern I do have that I need to fugure out is that I am addicted to Diet Mountain Dew. I Drink like 8-10 cans a morning. Without it I get bad headaches....so I either need to ween myself off it or come up with a caffine pill that I can take with. Any advice from the caffine addicts?

 .

 The woman in Lugansk says I can get flats for around 40. Does that seem accurate? By the way...before joining this forum I had never even heard of flats. Is it just the same as motel?
 

Forget the car man.
Too risky, you have never see roads in Ukraine. And if your car is stolen....
You have a plane from Kiev to Donetsk. Why do you want to use cars anytime ? You want to die ?
your plan is good, 
You can buy a 3G key to get a connection to internet. You plug it to your laptop, it will cost you around 60$.
Ok aim to Donetsk, find few backups.
The only thing you have is to find a good terp.
And also a flat an transportation service

[Brillynt]

BTW, I have been experimenting with several Skype translator programs to determine which one I like best.  A real-time two way translator for Skype can turn a one hour conversation using a cut and paste translator into a 10 minute chat.  After a few days I will post on a new thread my findings. So far the best one I have found is a paid program, but it is very reasonable.  All of the free ones have characteristics I do not like or are unreliable (such as stopping to work in the middle of a conversation).  LOL

Cal,  I have been using Clownfish with good success.

[Brillynt]

 The woman in Lugansk says I can get flats for around 40. Does that seem accurate? By the way...before joining this forum I had never even heard of flats. Is it just the same as motel?
 

lonedrake, I just booked a flat for 2 weeks at $40 per day in Lugansk.  One bedroom apartment.  Flat = Apartment for us yanks.

[CabbieTed]

I have heard the word flat used a lot in Ukraine.  I think on the east coast, it is more commonly used, but on the west coast, where I live, we call it an apartment.

[ML]

I have heard the word flat used a lot in Ukraine.  I think on the east coast, it is more commonly used, but on the west coast, where I live, we call it an apartment.

Yes, and in addition, another major difference in terminology is that in FSU they buy 'apartments.'

This is not the case in USA where the apartment house is owned as a complete unit, and the owner rents out individual apartments.

In USA, you buy individual townhouse units or condominium units.

[lonedrake]

Why do you want to use cars anytime ? You want to die ?

 


 Someday....but not over there.

 I guess I just like to drive. But....I ask for a reason and unless I hear otherwise....I will take the taxi.
 Thank you.

[Faux Pas]

 


 Someday....but not over there.

 I guess I just like to drive. But....I ask for a reason and unless I hear otherwise....I will take the taxi.
 Thank you.

Be sure that you wish to drive. After knowing what you are getting into you might change your mind. Driving in the FSU takes an FSU understanding and mindset. Without it could be an expensive adventure

[ECOCKS]

lonedrake, I just booked a flat for 2 weeks at $40 per day in Lugansk.  One bedroom apartment.  Flat = Apartment for us yanks.

To clarify....


A one-room flat is a studio apartment by our terminology. It consists of a large room with a sofa-bed (or sometimes a regular bed in the corner of a really large room), usually with a separate kitchen and a small room for a toilet and another small room with the bathtub and a sink in it. Some remodels have combined the bathroom more like our traditional bathrooms back home but, frankly, I prefer their original style of sep toilet room from bath/shower.


A two-room flat is what most Americans would call a one-bedroom apartment which usually consists of a bedroom, sitting room (almost always with a sofa which doubles as a bed), toilet and kitchen.


A three-room flat has another bedroom added to the two-room flat above BUT I have never seen one that had two bathrooms (they exist only in urban legend -  [size=78%]).[/size]

[size=78%]Hope that helps a bit.[/size]

[ML]

A three-room flat has another bedroom added to the two-room flat above BUT I have never seen one that had two bathrooms (they exist only in urban legend - 

OTOH, I have seen such in Ukraine (3 room, 2 bath), having been inside the apartments as guest.

But, I know these are not common.