For love OR money?

[Daveman]

My wife, as an established Psychologist in Ukraine, and I understood that though she has very extensive education, years of experience,  yadda ya.. that it would not be exactly a free ride to transfer that career to here.  We are still learning what is required and evaluating potential paths, etc.  While nothing resonates near $250,000, it appears to be far from unsubstantial.  We knew this (cost/effort) going in.  So while there was no debt, there was an understanding (on my part) that there is a gap between her life there and here and by marrying her I am taking on some extra responsibility - though not because she's Ukrainian, or that I owe it to her because she gave up her life there to be with me - but because it benefits her and the family.

Anyway, that goes to the first point I made.. the situations are rather similar but in a little different order.

[Faux Pas]

I just came across this and thought it relevant to this discussion.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/23/mike-rowe-of-dirty-jobs-speaks-about-hard-work-how-many-are-following-the-worst-advice-in-the-history-of-the-world/

“We’re lending money we don’t have, to kids who will never be able to pay it back, for jobs that no longer exist,” he explained, echoing what he told TheBlaze TV’s Andrew Wilkow earlier this month. “That’s crazy, right? That’s what we’ve been doing for the last forty years.”

[fathertime]

I just came across this and thought it relevant to this discussion.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/23/mike-rowe-of-dirty-jobs-speaks-about-hard-work-how-many-are-following-the-worst-advice-in-the-history-of-the-world/

“We’re lending money we don’t have, to kids who will never be able to pay it back, for jobs that no longer exist,” he explained, echoing what he told TheBlaze TV’s Andrew Wilkow earlier this month. “That’s crazy, right? That’s what we’ve been doing for the last forty years.”

Well Faux Pas, interesting article.
I think that the kids that are semi-blindly going to expensive colleges and running up massive debt are probably making a mistake...I can see going to an expensive college and running up 200k in debt only if there is a real viable job waiting....
In other countries, people have these great degrees in international business or what have you and working as a bathroom attendant...but at least they are not saddled with massive debt...
My good buddy is 67 years old, not a lick of college...owns a business that makes him megabucks....he could leave anytime  but loves what he does.. he has TALENT and DRIVE...college doesn't do that to a person...that has to come from within, especially the drive part! Maybe we should be talking to our college kids about what it takes to have drive and dedication rather than 16th century poetry and ceramics.   


Fathertime! 

[Slumba]

I just came across this and thought it relevant to this discussion.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/23/mike-rowe-of-dirty-jobs-speaks-about-hard-work-how-many-are-following-the-worst-advice-in-the-history-of-the-world/

“We’re lending money we don’t have, to kids who will never be able to pay it back, for jobs that no longer exist,” he explained, echoing what he told TheBlaze TV’s Andrew Wilkow earlier this month. “That’s crazy, right? That’s what we’ve been doing for the last forty years.”

It is a pretty excellent point.  I would say "trades" to young guy, not sure what I would say to a young girl who asked for advice though?  Maybe "accounting" or even "cooking and baking and hope to snag a good guy who will be appreciative; along with some other stuff"?

[Wayne]

From my experience, Attorneys charge around $150 to $250 per hour. Paying back $2000 per month would only be about 10 hours of work.
How can this so called Attorney only earn $25,000 per year? That's only about 125 hours of work in an entire year!  What does she do for the remaining 11 months?

[DTEJD]

From my experience, Attorneys charge around $150 to $250 per hour. Paying back $2000 per month would only be about 10 hours of work.
How can this so called Attorney only earn $25,000 per year? That's only about 125 hours of work in an entire year!  What does she do for the remaining 11 months?

She does not receive ANYWHERE near that amount, not even close!

She is doing MAINLY court appointments for indigent defendants and low level family law stuff.  The hourly rate for appointments is actually not too bad, but it is NOWHERE near $200 an hour.  The other problem is that she may work 3 hours for every hour billed for appointments.

Then in the family law type stuff, this is not usually a "per hour" billing arrangement.  It is frequently an amount for the whole matter.  For example, doing a divorce for $1,000.  That is GREAT if it takes you 8 hours.  What happens if it takes 20 hours, 30 hours, more?

The other problem is that while she gets work every week, it may only be 10 hours of PAYING work, and then 20-30-40 hrs. of work of unpaid research, driving, interviewing, scutt work.

Part of this problem is that she has only been an attorney for 3 years, and is still not efficient.  Part of the problem is that she simply does not have enough work to be efficient.  Traveling out to the jail to interview ONE client vs. seeing 2 or 3 on the same trip.

To an extent, even "Big Law" has this problem.  It is not uncommon for an attorney to work 3,000 hours in a year and only be able to bill 1,800.

The other problem is that there are MANY more attorneys than there are clients who will pay $150, $200 an hour.

Most young attorneys who did not graduate from the top 15-20 schools are struggling.  A shockingly high percentage of them are broke.  Becoming an attorney is NOT a good way to make money.

[Lily]

Wayne - 
I thought that this kind of naivety about the lawyers' earnings is only told in the stories.
 
DTEJD is quite correct in his post above.

[Anotherkiwi]

From my experience, Attorneys charge around $150 to $250 per hour. Paying back $2000 per month would only be about 10 hours of work.
How can this so called Attorney only earn $25,000 per year? That's only about 125 hours of work in an entire year!  What does she do for the remaining 11 months?

Ever heard of overheads, Wayne?  Unless she's working from home, which I doubt, she will have expenses such as office rental or mortgage payments; staff (secretary/receptionist at the minimum, even for a sole practitioner, or she would never get any work done at all); communication costs (office equipment and stationery; telephone and internet charges; etc); annual registration (licensing) and practising certification (NOT cheap); depreciation and tax liabilities...the list goes on.  Even at $150 per hour, a newish sole practitioner would struggle to clear a third of that.  And, as DTEJD has pointed out, this woman's earnings are not remotely close to that level.