Here's my story. Opinions?

[Serebro]

Serebro,
   I don't think there should be a precise "rule" in this regard.  Besides sometimes anticipating intimacy can in itself
be enjoyable.  My experience with FSU women in their 20's was that they were in no way inhibited in this regard. 
Quite the opposite!  One quite enjoyable way to start off physical intimacy is to share a bania together. 

to share a bania together?!!!!!!!!!!
As a start?!!!!!
LMAO
I don't know where you live, krimster, but where I live good unmarried girls don't go to bania with boys...

[krimster]

Serebro,
  I certainly didn't mean to suggest a bania on the first date.  However I met quite a few Russian/Ukrainian women who expressed a certain,
well eagerness to share a bania with me.  I guess I didn't meet all that many "good" girls there, but on the other hand when they were bad, they were REALLY good!

My experience with the intimacy issue is that events happened much more quickly for me in Russia/Ukraine than back home in the USA, and frankly I didn't mind in the least!  None of the women I met there put up any resistance to any "bold" advances that I made, all tastefully done, as I am unusually artful in my seductions, having many good teachers.  On the other hand in many instances twas I who was the seducee and not the seducer, ahhh the joys of memory....

My advice, the "good girl" syndrome is not what most men are looking for, seduction is like comedy, it's all about timing...

[Gator]

Serebro,

My only comment on the "some time" is that it depends upon both the man and woman and the situation, and the same man may have a different "some time" with different women and different situations.  It has to happen naturally without predetermined rules and coercion.

I do not think Krimster was suggesting a banya on the first date, especially a private banya.  That would be something only a teenage boy would think plausible.  Yet, if two people are attracted to each other physically and intellectually and spiritually, what is wrong with breaking the ice with a private banya?

[smartcat]

krimster, my guts feel that it's not a good way for Catman to experiment with seduction arts in banya... if you are giving advice to him as to an author of the thread.

[Kuna]

Serebro,
  I certainly didn't mean to suggest a bania on the first date.  However I met quite a few Russian/Ukrainian women who expressed a certain,
well eagerness to share a bania with me.  I guess I didn't meet all that many "good" girls there, but on the other hand when they were bad, they were REALLY good!

My experience with the intimacy issue is that events happened much more quickly for me in Russia/Ukraine than back home in the USA, and frankly I didn't mind in the least!  None of the women I met there put up any resistance to any "bold" advances that I made, all tastefully done, as I am unusually artful in my seductions, having many good teachers.  On the other hand in many instances twas I who was the seducee and not the seducer, ahhh the joys of memory....

My advice, the "good girl" syndrome is not what most men are looking for, seduction is like comedy, it's all about timing...

Krimster,

You've declined to complete your user profile so it's difficult for us to understand where you're coming from with these comments... 

All I will say is that your comment "the 'good girl' syndrome is not what most men are looking for" is either BS, or the reason why most men fail on this journey!

I think most men start out genuinely looking for a relationship but then some can't resist a bit of casual rumpy bumpy because all of a sudden they feel like the stud they always dreamed of being.

Others may have had similar success at home so they realise how frivolous and futile casual liaisons are (when seeking a serious relationship)...  but each to their own I suppose - as long as no one is deceived!

Would you mind filling in the gaps in your profile?

Are you married?

Committed?

How many times to FSU?

I assume you're looking for marriage or a relationship with a FSUW?

Cheers,

Kuna

Serebro,

My only comment on the "some time" is that it depends upon both the man and woman and the situation, and the same man may have a different "some time" with different women and different situations.  It has to happen naturally without predetermined rules and coercion.

I do not think Krimster was suggesting a banya on the first date, especially a private banya.  That would be something only a teenage boy would think plausible.  Yet, if two people are attracted to each other physically and intellectually and spiritually, what is wrong with breaking the ice with a private banya?

Gator,

It's always refreshing to see your balanced posts...   

I agree, there's nothing wrong with a private banya between two consenting adults where there is no deception involved...  but we both know there's a lot of deception being perpetuated by both sexes, and for different reasons.

Western sex tourists are not uncommon in FSU - thus Serebro's consistent reactions to slightly suspect posts...  Perhaps she overreacts a little... but it's important to consider WHY she overreacts.

Hopefully the genuine people find each other and the dishonest ones suffer the consequences of their own actions.

(I AM NOT SAYING KRIMSTER HAS IMMORAL MOTIVATIONS AT ALL...  BUT I DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HIS POST - PROBABLY BECAUSE I DON'T APPRECIATE WHERE HE IS COMING FROM  BECAUSE HE HASN'T FILLED IN ALL OF HIS PROFILE INFORMATION)

[krimster]

IMMORAL MOTIVATIONS?

Depends on your definition of morality.  Mine is actually based on post-Victorian age social mores.
You CANNOT deceive someone when you're sitting next to them naked and sweating, trust me on this.
T'wasn't my suggestion for the bania, I really didn't know much about them until I was introduced to it.
Hope that is sufficient to satisfy your curiosity.

I honestly don't know how you could possibly consider marrying a woman if you haven't made love to her, no seriously I don't know how!
What's the big deal?  Are you saving yourself for marriage, please go watch a Doris Day movie or something...

[I/O]

Based on what?

Based on good sense, practicalities and logistics. I know one...........................yeah don't we all know one of this or that. I said "Best suited", not "Only suited".

I/O

[Catman]

I'm a little overwhelmed at all the responses and great advice. I thought maybe a few people would answer and tell me I'm a dumbass. Thanks!
Yes I am fully prepared to buy the wife a car. If she would like to work that is great. If not that's great too. 10 minutes away is license testing, groceries or whatever you want. I have a friend here who met a girl from Ukraine, went to visit her, made the second trip and married her. They did everything themselves as far as documents, marriage registry and embassy visits. His wife didn't have a license and had to wait 9 months before she could get it here. To boot she became pregnant, spoke little English and sat at home(off the beaten path, not even much traffic there) while her husband was away at work. He bought her a car which she uses to drive to her part time job as a bank teller. I was told by another family member that it was tough to adapt at first. Everyone thought she would go back to Ukraine but it helped that her mother would come to stay with her for a few months. Yes, a few months They now have a son and are expecting another child. It is very important for your new wife to get her drivers license in her country. Then no problem when she gets here. I'm sure they said they had to drive to Winnipeg for English lessons.
Now I'm sure there are English lessons here. There is also an organization to welcome new comers to this country to help them with everything. We are now getting a lot of people here from Germany, many are Russian speaking. Canada makes it very hard for us to bring a wife here from another country. The sponsorship program looks to me like signing your soul to the government. After you bring your new wife here, she could leave you the next day and you will have to support her for 3-5 years with everything and I mean everything. If she has a child you are responsible for support until the child is 18. If the child wants to go to university you have to pay for everything until that child is 25 years old. Canada is starving for skilled workers so if your new wife is a metal worker, shop worker or welder, carpenter you will have no problem.
Nearest club for dancing is 25 minutes away but hot only in the summer. City is full of clubs. Milk cows? I don't want to milk cows myself, never mind my new wife Yes, a lot of beef cattle ranches out here but the farms here are nothing like Ukraine from what I've heard. A few years from now I want to build a new house, hot tub, fireplace, the works. The house I have now is crowded with this 64 inch new television. I'm not a good cook but I'm living. I keep it clean, wash my own clothes, plant flowers, cut grass, want to turn my yard into a park, I don't think life would be so bad here. I've been working all my life so my future family will have everything. Another reason girlfriends wouldn't stay too long with me, saying things like "you work everyday, today you work 14-16 hours and you mean you don't feel like dancing? You're yawning? I'll find someone else who appreciates me more and will spend time at the beach with me." Okay I over do it but just wait, what I do is for you. She's gone. Now I'm ready.
Intimacy? I can get intimacy here. I went to Ukraine to find a decent girl to marry. It's been my experience that girl's who jump straight into bed with you right away will quite easily jump into bed with someone else very quickly. Sex before marriage? Of course. Not only do you want to know if your future wife will be great in the bedroom you want to know that she likes you in the same manner. What if you get married first, before intimacy, thinking you are all that, thinking you are some great lover and you just don't do it for her? She gets turned off, mixed feelings for both of you, English not so good at first so poor communication in bed if any. Everyone is different and has different ways of looking at things.
I prefer to be a perfect gentleman but sex before marriage.

[Misha]

Canada makes it very hard for us to bring a wife here from another country. The sponsorship program looks to me like signing your soul to the government. After you bring your new wife here, she could leave you the next day and you will have to support her for 3-5 years with everything and I mean everything. If she has a child you are responsible for support until the child is 18.

Pretty much. The sponsorship is for 3 years and there is no "removal of conditions." She arrives as a permanent resident and there is not set time that the two of  you have to be married once she arrives for her to stay and eventually become a citizen.

Also, it is not an easy process to sponsor her. The odds of her getting a tourist visa are pretty small. When you do find the one, you will have to spend a lot of time with her in Ukraine before she applies for permanent residence.

[Gator]

Canada makes it very hard for us to bring a wife here from another country.....After you bring your new wife here, she could leave you the next day and you will have to support her for 3-5 years with everything and I mean everything. If she has a child you are responsible for support until the child is 18. If the child wants to go to university you have to pay for everything until that child is 25 years old.

Solid reasons to be very sure about the intentions of your future bride.  To be sure, 1) she should already know English so that the two of you can have serious discussions, 2) you have spent a lot of time with her over several meetings and a couple of years, and 3) you are feeling mtual love in a true sense of the word.  Spending time together in her country seems to be essential.

Do you have the time and money to do that? 

[Catman]

For a tourist visa you have to send your girlfriend a letter of invitation and  photocopy of a bank statement proving you have the funds to cover all of her expenses. The letter of invitation should state both your names, ages, address', relationship to each other, state you are a Canadian citizen, employment and reason for the visit. Your girlfriend will have to phone the embassy telling them to mail her the paperwork or she can download it from the embassy website. Application fee is $75, non-refundable and probably be rejected the first time.

[Misha]

For a tourist visa you have to send your girlfriend a letter of invitation and  photocopy of a bank statement proving you have the funds to cover all of her expenses. The letter of invitation should state both your names, ages, address', relationship to each other, state you are a Canadian citizen, employment and reason for the visit. Your girlfriend will have to phone the embassy telling them to mail her the paperwork or she can download it from the embassy website. Application fee is $75, non-refundable and probably be rejected the first time.

I know, I did it. My wife was given a visa to visit me in Canada. However, I was scolded at the Canadian Consulate in Moscow. Told to sponsor my girlfriend the next time.

[BillyB]

I guess if I'm a nice guy I will have to finish last?

Here's one woman's thoughts about nice guys and info one can learn from.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/wdc/205576820.html

[myrddin]

Here's one woman's thoughts about nice guys and info one can learn from.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/wdc/205576820.html

Thanks for that, good stuff for a laugh. 

I think a lot of people confuse "nice" with "spineless".  Agreeing with someone about everything and never raising your voice or showing any emotion isn't "nice", it's weird.  It's inhuman.  Women want men who are strong, but they don't want jerks.
I hope.

You can be a gentleman and still have a backbone.

[Catman]

That's great! Did you get that girl's number? 

[catzenmouse]

Wasn't there a response to that one about how later in life when this girl is looking for a nice guy she can't find one because her and her feminasty sisterhood have turned all the nice guys mean a bitter with thier BS?

Being nice has nothing to do with being a doormat. If you have respect for yourself then you will have and display respect for others. Up to a point. When that point is reached then look out because you might just see a real SOB come out to take care of the problem.

Each person has such a breaking point. The key within us is knowing where it is and deciding if you want to go past it or walk away.

FWIW,
 Ken

[BillyB]

That's great! Did you get that girl's number? 

Nah. She's already got a "Nice" boyfriend but he's screwing it up and I agree. She just wants him to get a little more aggressive in other areas of their relationship and be a MAN, not a "yes" man or become a bad boy. Besides, holding up traffic by driving slow, agreeing with everything a woman says, and being a selfish lover without pleasuring your partner before you finish isn't exactly "nice".

"Nice" shouldn't be the word used to refer to the men who finish last. "Soft" should be used and each guy needs to evaluate himself and improve or accept finishing last for the rest of his life.

If a guy thinks he finishes last all the time, the problem may not be the women out there, it may be that he is too soft. If a woman wanted soft, she'd look for a girlie-man or another woman.

Most women don't want a man who's easily walked on, especially by other women. She doesn't want an "easy to get" guy who's a "yes" man to every female that he encounters. Got to say "no" sometimes and you can't buy her everything she asks for. Good women will respect you for the fact you've got standards and you're willing to walk away from a woman, no matter how beautiful she is, if she crosses them. She'll also respect that you're not trying to buy her love. Most women also want a man who'd be willing to get physical if someone threatens her or family. Being "tough" doesn't have to equate to being a bad boy. Why can't nice guys be tough? I'm a nice guy to nice people but when I was in the military, I was fully prepared to slice the enemy's throat or put a bullet in their head if it ever came to that.

[Catman]

I've been in a few rough Karate tournaments and done very well. To be nice only goes so far.

[KenC]

Nah. She's already got a "Nice" boyfriend but he's screwing it up and I agree. She just wants him to get a little more aggressive in other areas of their relationship and be a MAN, not a "yes" man or become a bad boy. Besides, holding up traffic by driving slow, agreeing with everything a woman says, and being a selfish lover without pleasuring your partner before you finish isn't exactly "nice".

"Nice" shouldn't be the word used to refer to the men who finish last. "Soft" should be used and each guy needs to evaluate himself and improve or accept finishing last for the rest of his life.

If a guy thinks he finishes last all the time, the problem may not be the women out there, it may be that he is too soft. If a woman wanted soft, she'd look for a girlie-man or another woman.

Most women don't want a man who's easily walked on, especially by other women. She doesn't want an "easy to get" guy who's a "yes" man to every female that he encounters. Got to say "no" sometimes and you can't buy her everything she asks for. Good women will respect you for the fact you've got standards and you're willing to walk away from a woman, no matter how beautiful she is, if she crosses them. She'll also respect that you're not trying to buy her love. Most women also want a man who'd be willing to get physical if someone threatens her or family. Being "tough" doesn't have to equate to being a bad boy. Why can't nice guys be tough? I'm a nice guy to nice people but when I was in the military, I was fully prepared to slice the enemy's throat or put a bullet in their head if it ever came to that.

Very good post, Billy!
KenC

[smartcat]

Most women don't want a man who's easily walked on, especially by other women. She doesn't want an "easy to get" guy who's a "yes" man to every female that he encounters. Got to say "no" sometimes and you can't buy her everything she asks for.

The paradox is that a woman feels very well that this "YES" is just about HER. There's absolutely no worry he is easily walked out. Especially by other women. This is why she is calling him "nice". If it were opposite case, he would be whoever but not a "nice", or "yes" man.
And it's not about whether he buys her anything or not.

As far as the woman feels her unique power on the man, she can be capricious, neglecting, playing games, demanding anything... Would you call her "nice", "sweet", "divine" - all depends upon your love blindness. She knows you are after her.

If you show up she is not a complete boss to you - here might be her worry to loose her power and to start feel your value.