Here's my story. Opinions?

[Catman]

I live in small town Canada, raised Ukrainian, first language spoken was Ukrainian, been used and abused by the women here. I've always wanted to go to Ukraine to find a wife and after a relationship from hell went to meet a girl I had met through an agency in Lugansk in november 2006. She was nice but not the one. My translater introduced me to another girl, 24 years of age at the time, I am now 40. Wined and dined, she asked for many gifts like fur coat and such which I bought. She has the cutest little girl, we all get along great. The agency said they would start the paperwork for us to marry. We wrote everyday through the agency and in june 2007 I visit but this time she wants us to have our holiday in Kiev. I insisted I meet her family so off to Lugansk,short meeting with family,  then my girlfriend, her daughter, translator and myself flew to Kiev. My girlfriend, Tanya, said on one night she would like to visit her friend who was married and also from Lugansk. The next morning when the translator and I met her at the subway Tanya had a horrible hangover and lied that it was something she ate. I could smell the booze and was not impressed. Then of course many more gifts for her and her daughter. Still no intimacy. I asked her if we could spend some time alone and she declined. She did however ask for support money every month. Me, like the honest generous fool said yes. No word from the agency about paperwork. English lessons, gifts through the agency, more letters. I asked Tanya if we could marry in the fall and she agreed. Then she postponed it saying we should get engaged at Christmas. I agreed and bought my ticket to Lugansk.                                         Then I was told to pay for driving lessons in Ukraine so I did. The agency said that the price stated on their website was the old price and I needed to send more. This made me suspicious so I thought I would check other agency websites. There I found my girlfriend Tanya's current profile on two other agency websites. Tanya said it was not her fault that these other sites are using her picture but one thing stood out to me. She had started a new job not long before this and her new job was listed on one profile. I quit writing and scrapped all plans not believing her. A couple weeks later she began phoning saying it was not her fault and that she loved me. I don't know what is more soft, my heart or my head but we continue writing without the agency which I now see on a scamblack list.                                                                                                                                                      Then my parents health is failing and I can not go to visit and get engaged as I have to help my parents. I ask Tanya to come here for a visit to see if she would like her new home and surroundings but as she told me before she doesn't care where she moves to as long as it is with me. I insist and she agrees. I write the letter of invitation along with other documents needed for the Canadian embassy. I told Tanya to download the documents for visiting visa but she has not. I asked her to phone and the documents will be mailed to her. She said she did but after two months still nothing. I keep asking her to download them so she will have them in her hand in minutes and nothing. My letter took one week to her mailbox. Tanya then requested money for a new cell phone besides her monthly support which I sent. Again I ask her to download the documents but no answer from her.Now she is off to Moscow on holiday.
 This has been a huge emotional roller coaster that I just can not deal with any more. I always like to see the good in people and trust them but I have had enough. It's now very obvious that she has no intention of coming here but is dragging things out like the crooked agency did. Still alone, want nothing to do with the women here, no intimacy and feeling like a real sucker . Okay, let me have it!

[Catman]

I forgot to mention that Tanya has told me the embassy told her she will have to fly to Kiev to fill out the documents. This is not true unless they request a medical exam. Is Tanya what is called a pro dater? She keeps telling me her daughter asks about me and this really pulls at my heart strings. Am I actually so stupid? This just can't be right already!

[Faux Pas]

There's not much to give you here friend. You know and realize it already. You said you were used and abused by the local Canadian women and you've just extended your abuse to Ukraine. From the information you have provided this girl is all about the money. It would sound as if you are one of many she has on the hook.   I think you already know what you need to do. I expect you'll find lots of confirmation on this forum. End it now with this floozy and find you a reputable agency and start again. There are many honest and sincere ladies in the same search as you. Shes playing you like a fiddle. For starters read the 10 commandments. Good luck to you and welcome to RWD

[KenC]

Kick her to the curb and start over.  Only this time be smarter.
KenC

[Shadow]

Welcome to RWD.
After about the first three lines I already knew enough. Sorry, but the girl is abusing you.
And you have been a willing subject. How could you think to marry a girl you just met and that needs/wants an interpreter to communicate ?
The best thing to do is to cut all ties, forgive her and start new.

[Catman]

Thanks everyone, I just needed to hear this from someone else instead of the voice inside me

[myrddin]

Learn from mistakes, move on, don't beat yourself up.  The past is the over.

[Voyageur]

Catman,

You have finally realized yourself that possessing a kind heart and forgiving nature often gets abused. Listen to your head and not your heart. Strange it may seem to say - but don't take it personally. In the often wonderful (and often cruel) culture that you are dealing with - someone who is kind can be considered a goat and should be milked for all the money and gifts he can provide, for as long as he will provide this... Although this situation - once realized - can seem humiliating, you can recover from this.  Just don't make the same mistake twice. You can be assured that some others have paid a much higher price than you have (i.e. something like this ends in a marriage over here).

Learn form you mistakes - don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Don't settle for being treated any differently from a woman from the FSU than you would from any  other culture.  This type of pursuit is full of rocky and dangerous paths.   Any success has a good measure of simple dumb luck involved, IMHO.  But you can't be blinded by youth or beauty behaving badly either. Listen to that voice inside you. Read all you can on this site - it can be the best preparation for your next FSU adventure.

[groovlstk]

In the often wonderful (and often cruel) culture that you are dealing with - someone who is kind can be considered a goat and should be milked for all the money and gifts he can provide, for as long as he will provide this...

Catman,

Read the above words and memorize them. Most guys don't want to admit it, but in very general terms FSU women are more predatory than those local women you were dating (who also used you). 

This woman never loved you and doubtless had or has a bf on the side. It's shocking to many naive western men that a young woman can look into his eyes and say "I love you" when nothing could be further from the truth.

I hope you're strong enough to cut this woman off and never write or phone her again. As much as it sucks having spent so much time and money on her, if you had bought her to Canada and married her your life would be an unmitigated disaster. Count your blessings that you escaped relatively unscathed.

[Catman]

All right then, get tough or die! I start over. Now what? Where in the FSU is the best place to look? When I was in Lugansk, even after I bought my clothes there, when walking down the street everyones head would turn and look at me. I asked the interpreter about this and she laughed saying "everyone can see you are not Ukrainian". I guess 25% Ukrainian, 25% English and half Dutch might stand out, I felt like I was watching a movie. When I think back to this I felt like an alien. Kind of a target. Since I live in the country where in the FSU am I going to find a girl that will have no problems living here? Certainly not Moscow. When first searching I would always ask the girl if she could live outside of the city. I've heard that in Ukraine if you live in the country you are considered poor which is not the case here. I see a long road ahead. I was hoping to be married by 40 and not starting all over.
 Yes, my dear Tanya will be in for a surprise when home from Moscow. Thank you!

[Fashionista]

Cartman,

Please forgive me if my words sound in any way offensive. English is not my native language, and even when I am trying to be nice I sometimes come across rude. I strongly believe that you are not the type of a person who is able to do across-the-border relationship things. You really should think about finding a wife close to home. Don't be stubborn, you can't afford to keep making the same mistake (which you will). You just don't have certain qualities to succeed in it. You are a nice smart guy, but you are not the most clairvoyant person when you are dealing with women. You will need all clues, marks and signals the man can possible get when he meet a woman. You can't do it over the phone and e-mail and with a middleman. You are not paranoid enough, not suspicios enoght to get involved with the business which is way far from beein civilised: FSU wife export. Find a girl in your town, meet face to face, talk one language, share mutual past, and forget about Ukraine. I really want to help you, honestly.

[Voyageur]

Catman,

Take a deep breath, take some time off and think about cultural differences and the indicators of someone being taken advantage of another's naivety .  In the FSU culture, if someone demonstrates misplaced generosity and kindness, this person deserves to be taken advantage of. Whereas in Western culture, this can be viewed as admirable traits.

Be patient.  Consider what Fashionista has to say. I am not saying not to try again, but you need to take a breath and be more careful.  Read and learn.  OK, that is all I will say about it. I really wish you the best of luck. Last word of advise - read all you can here before you start again.

[KenC]

Fashionista,
It's Catman, not Cartman.  Other than that, your post is right on the money.  Dating RW is not for beginners.  Regardless of Catman's Ukrainian heritage, I am concerned about his statement that he was "used and abused" by Canadian women too.  Come to think of it, maybe there is a little Cartman in him!
KenC

[Jet]

Catman,
I'm truly sorry to hear of your misfortune. All too often clear warning signs are brushed off as "cultural differences" there are things good people do and don't do regardless of culture and if it seems "odd" or wrong, it almost certainly is. I too will suggest you consider Fashionsta's advice very carefully. This adventure is not for everyone and if you continue on this path you'll have tons of hurdles to jump even if you do find the right woman. Seriously man, finding the girl is the EASY part!

I see a long road ahead. I was hoping to be married by 40 and not starting all over.

I would also seriously caution you about setting these types of goals! Forget about the timeline, it will take as long as it takes. Your focus should be on WHAT you want and HOW to achieve it, not WHEN you want it.

[Catman]

You are right that I need to take some time off of this. Time to enjoy life, go to the clubs and watch married women pick up guys. After visiting Ukraine and seeing the girls there, their fashion, excellent social skills and class, I have been totally spoiled. The Ukrainian and Russian languages are humourous as well. I love their food and restaurants. If I could set up a business there I would move but to import goods into Ukraine has a 20-25% tax so that is out. If I go back and I probably will, I will have had some experience and find a girl who speaks a little English for starters but time off first for sure. Yes it's Catman

[Misha]

I live in small town Canada, raised Ukrainian, first language spoken was Ukrainian, been used and abused by the women here. I've always wanted to go to Ukraine to find a wife and after a relationship from hell went to meet a girl I had met through an agency in Lugansk in november 2006.

Do you still speak Ukrainian? It would certainly make things easier if you did. However, do avoid women who ask for fur coats or a monthly stipend.

[KenC]

Catman,
Might suggest you read the thread "Money changes everything" in the beginners section.  There was some very good conversations regarding your past choices.  It could be very helpful.
KenC

[Catman]

Yes I still speak some Ukrainian but understand more than I speak. I'm told the Ukrainian language here is 75 years out of date. Next time I will watch the spending and stick to borscht
I'll check out that thread. Thanks Ken!

[Misha]

Yes I still speak some Ukrainian but understand more than I speak. I'm told the Ukrainian language here is 75 years out of date. Next time I will watch the spending and stick to borscht

That is better than most men who go to the FSU looking for a wife. I would brush up on your Ukrainian and not rush into things. Find out where your family came from, visit some of the ancestral villages, get to know the people. Along the way, who knows, you may find the ONE.

[Gator]

Catman,

I wrote the following then realized that you may be a cat lover.  If you are, please keep it to yourself as I never would have written this.

The FSU has many good women.  In fact, the good character of some women is so strong that somehow it prevails even in the difficult life of the FSU, even above the temptation of milking an easy mark of his money. 

There is another problem, however.   While these good women will not prey on you as did your Lugansk scammer, they will not respect a man who could so easily be parted from his money.  They will sense it in you whether or not you demonstrate it explicitly.

If you attempt the FSUW endeavor again, you will probably strikeout again.  Why?  You may be so paranoid that you will come across as either strange or greedy (a man who places himself ahead of his woman).  You probably will not even have a good time, much less find someone with mutual interest. 

So can you try again without being overly paranoid?  You must build your confidence.  Repeat, confidence is the keyword.  It comes not from inventing an attitude but from preparing yourself thoroughly.  I think it is possible in your case because you do not seem hopeless.  You were at least clever enough to stop this scam before it progressed farther; some men continue in denial.

Before suggesting that you try again, I have one question.  Do you have the time and money for repeated trips?  Meet a few women on your first trip and select one to see again and again.  The insincere women will not stay with you if you are not bankrolling them after a couple of trips.

Gaubaub makes a good point about your Ukrainian background.  It should be an advantage.  A good example for you to read is Kuna's initial posts and his first trip report (over a year ago).  He prepared thoroughly for his first trip and had all the confidence of a seasoned pro.  Plus, he combined it with a search of his Ukrainian roots, and the UW were happy to help.  He is married now to a UW and she is expecting a baby.  So start there and return with your questions.

[I/O]

Catman: Sad but not unheard of story. I'm with Fashionista here, I don't think you have enough bastard, mongrel, arseholishness, preparedness to be a downright ruthless prick if need be to make it through this type of process, particularly with UW and or RW. (Note Groov's comments)

I sincerely wish you the best, but honestly, I think that best is staying home for a quite a while now and if you never learn anything else, learn this, a decent RW/UW will NEVER ask you for money before you are married or very close to it, IF even then. Mine hates to ask me for ANYTHING, much less money even now. Their pride will simply not allow it.

I/O 

[Shadow]

Catman the advice you got from some guys to stay home is probably taking it a bit too far. I agree that at this time you need to take a break as your ability to trust women enough for a relationship might be damaged. However it a couple of months you will be ready to start over, and with the knowledge of your experience and the members here you might have a good chance.
Before you start over take some time to find out who you are and what you want. Make sure to write more than one to start out to get an idea of different characters and views on life. Do not make the same mistakes in being a wallet on legs, but do follow through on your heart.

[Kuna]

Catman,

Sorry to hear you've had a difficult time...  Chin up though, there are great times ahead, whether they be in Ukraine or at home.

I endorse many of the things said above about confidence, etc and would advise you to think rationally and critically about your search IF or BEFORE you start again...

A few things to think about...

1. Your past "relationship" has been a farce - sad but true.  You MUST put it behind you and not ever thing you can go back!  Notch it up to experience but don't beat yourself up about it...  many men have come off much worse...

2. There are many wonderful genuine women in Ukraine wanting to meet genuine men.  Guess what??? It's hard for genuine women to find a genuine man! Your best chance at finding success (IMHO) is not to pursue frivolous adventures... but rather to seek genuine, long lasting and sustainable experiences.

Think of it this was... Life is hard in Ukraine.  For some it's VERY hard.  Economics, weather, transport, social problems, politics and crime.  What type of man do you think a good, stable genuine woman is looking for?  One that throws some money around?  One she can manipulate?  I didn't think so. 

A Genuien woman in Ukraine will be looking for a stable man... one she can trust and rely on.

You need to be strong but fair...  You need to be cautious but not paranoid.  Most of all you need to be realistic!  You need to be someone she can respect and support - not someone she can exploit!

If a woman - ANY WOMAN - feels like she can exploit you she will never respect you...  and respect is essential for a woman in a relationship!

When you restart your search be very sure you know what you want and why...  If you're looking for something that gives you a burst of adrenaline just understand your chances of failure have increased. 

You should (by all rights) have some advantages (Ukr heritage) but that doesn't make this journey easier...  it will just make your journey different.

All the best!

[Catman]

Yes I am a cat lover, my little house friend but I also buy and sell Caterpillars, bulldozers, repair, put them in ready to work condition. The Ukrainian upbringing I've had has made me somewhat of a workaholic. Yes I can make repeated trips and maybe it's a good idea. After my rest.
The Ukrainians where I am from originated from the west of Ukraine, probably most from Galacia, and most come here early 1900's when the Polish and Ukrainian border was shifting back and forth. It's rare to see Western Ukrainian women on the agency sites. Is life a little better there?
Yes I will have to do some work to myself, get my confidence back and no more of this

[Admin]

Yes I am a cat lover, my little house friend but I also buy and sell Caterpillars, bulldozers, repair, put them in ready to work condition. The Ukrainian upbringing I've had has made me somewhat of a workaholic. Yes I can make repeated trips and maybe it's a good idea. After my rest.
The Ukrainians where I am from originated from the west of Ukraine, probably most from Galacia, and most come here early 1900's when the Polish and Ukrainian border was shifting back and forth. It's rare to see Western Ukrainian women on the agency sites. Is life a little better there?
Yes I will have to do some work to myself, get my confidence back and no more of this

I absolutely LOVE western Ukraine - so does my wife, who is from Kremenchug (east of the Dnieper). Karpaty makes a wonderful excursion, and Lviv is gorgeous. Speaking of Lviv, check out Bill and Helen's site at www.LvivBrides.com. They are one of very few agencies doing business in that part of the country, and while they are a very small agency, their reputation seems excellent.

In western Ukraine, consider making a visit to explore your 'roots'. Not sure exactly where that may be, but the people from that part of the country are the warmest and engaging I have met anywhere.

Enjoy!

- Dan