How NOT to start out... An AFA tour to Odessa on UK TV last night

[Vinnvinny]

Sorry, but if you use a method where you will be sure to meet a high rate of scammer/pro daters or just women wanting some fun and free drinks and if you are ready to pay for this, you are what we call in french "un pigeon"

Is your comment based upon personal experience? Where’s the evidence that the proportion of scammer/pro daters/fun seekers is higher at socials than through any other medium? I know for a fact that some guys on that trip (3) DID meet a lady that they are now pursuing towards eventual marriage. I have no idea if the method they chose is less successful and more costly than the various and numerous other options available for WM to meet RW. Please enlighten me ….

First of all I have encountered ads on Craiglist in different forums for sex tours that linked to AFA sites.

Click on the home page here. There’s a girl advertised called Oksana, 26 from Lugansk. Try meeting her but telling her that you don’t need her help for a taxi or apartment (she will go AWOL). So this site links us to potential scammers so where does that leave us then?

Second, what guy is going to admit that is his purpose?  You think guys are any more honest than the agencies?  It is a "romance" tour and that word can be interpreted many different ways.

True. I interpreted it as a Romance tour and I am as sure as I can be that most of the other guys looked on it in the same way. You can interpret it in as many ways as you feel fit.

For the money guys are spending on these tours they could easily arrange things on their own, meet women who are not indoctrinated into the "system" and more than likely have a lot more fun.  But, some guys want things handed to them on a silver platter, or, they are just not able to make their own arrangements.

Again true but what is actually wrong with the guys spending their cash in a way they chose? Also, (again) where is the evidence that if a guy does things on his own he will "more than likely have a lot more fun"?

.... 95% of the girls in that book were considered by the agent to be "not serious".   

That ratio just about matches the % of guys on that tour who most ladies I am sure would not deem suitable as a mate .... so the match is a good fit then. 

Over the next month of hanging out in Donetsk I met dozens of nice girls.  None of them had ever been to a social or would even consider going to one.  Most of them said if they were in love with a man they would go where he was to be with him. 

.... but from your profile you apparently never met your 'second half' using this method so again, where does that leave us?

so, make your own decisions.. if you think going on tours is a good way to meet a good girl, go for it.  But, as has been proven in this thread the affiliate agencies as well as the main offices have been involved in the sex trade in one way or another.  Why take the chance unless you are willing to risk getting an ex hooker/ex stripper/ex web cam porn star for your mate and only learning about this after the fact.

Nowhere have I written that going on such a tour is a good way to meet a good girl. The point that I made is if the choice is between sitting for years behind a pc OR going on a tour, then I reckon the later is a better option. With regards to the ex-hooker etc then firstly I have no interest whatsoever as to what a lady's past is ... I am only interested in the future. Also, do you have first hand knowledge that they don’t make good wives? I have spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe (even lived there for a year) and I can assure you that attitudes to 'sex workers' is very different than those in the West. For many it's just as job, the same as how we would view a waitress etc here.

I say all that keeping in mind there have been marriages through AFA.  But as several people have posted very few if any of those marriages have lasted.  I know I certainly dont want to get married, then divorced and then start all over again. 

People have posted that but it seems to me to be more based on hearsay than anything else. Also, do we 'know' if marriages NOT through AFA are any more successful? Where's the stats?

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I am not defending AFA's tours. Personally for me it wasn't good value for money but it got me off my *ss and led me to betting things. I do however defend those guys who prefer to take this route. There seems to be a 'holier than thou' undercurrent here that anyone who chooses that path must be a moron .... which is frankly both unproven and BS.

[docetae]

Is your comment based upon personal experience? Where’s the evidence that the proportion of scammer/pro daters/fun seekers is higher at socials than through any other medium? I know for a fact that some guys on that trip (3) DID meet a lady that they are now pursuing towards eventual marriage. I have no idea if the method they chose is less successful and more costly than the various and numerous other options available for WM to meet RW. Please enlighten me ….

The evidence is from 14 travels to Ukraine. No Ukrainian women I know will show themselves to that kind of events. For them it is place for women who have no pride, or are only interested by free lunch/drinks.

[Sculpto]

Vinn..

There are a lot of ways to meet FSU ladies that have nothing to do with agencies and tours.  A person just has to be creative and use the internet for what it was designed for.. connecting people and information.  

I have not yet found my mate.. yes it is true.. but in less than a week I am on the plane to meet an awesome lady I have corresponded with and spoken on the phone with almost every day for the last year.  I did not find her on a marriage site or even a dating site.. she wasn't looking for anything more than a friend when I found her and for a long time she wouldn't even consider leaving her country.  We have as strong an AOLOVE as I have ever experienced.  There is a big emotional connection and in less than a week I will know if that translates to a real life one.  I have a pretty good feeling it will, but, I am not counting chickens and have made backup plans and have phone numbers of ladies I found using the same method but I have had less correspondence with.  

However, since you asked.. after my trip to Donetsk, where I did not go specifically to seek a wife.. I went to learn about my cultural history and only discovered the whole wife thing as a result, I did end up meeting one awesome woman.  Actually more than one, but, one that there was mutual interest in pursuing a future relationship.  Unfortunately that meeting came four days before I was to depart so I did not have a lot of time with her.  Her job was working on cruise ships.  I was hoping to go back to see her again a few months after, but, I was laid off from my job after I returned, and then she decided to take a contract to go on a ship for 9 months.  Contact slipped and we both lost interest.

In the meantime I started using sites like AFA, CC, HRB, Army, KG, NC, Elenas and even occasionally AW.  All I did was waste money and time.  So much BS from all those sites that finally culminated in a wasted trip about a year ago to meet a ghost so the corrupt local affiliate agency would not lose their right to post their girls on the site I met her on.  The girl showed up alright, but, she did not know nearly enough about me after 3 months of correspondence to be legit.  She disappeared after three meetings "not interested" was the lead in to the bait and switch.  I have to give the agency manager credit.. I am pretty darn street smart and he got me.  It was after that experience that I really started "digging" on all the sites and then discovered the same girls, same photos, same profile words, on almost all of the sites.  I confronted the sites I still had memberships on regarding this.  Each of them quoted the same BS policy.. "We can not control what site a girl puts her profile on".  Fine, except the problem with their answer is the girls have nothing to do with how they are being pimped out by the affiliate agencies.  Then, shortly afterwards, one girl I met in Odessa, who is an artist like me, quit and her profiles were removed from all the different sites.  I called her and asked why.. two reasons.. guilt over being part of the scam because she was being paid to sit on cam and chat and secondly because she was being pressured to go to work on a porno site.  Then she told me EVERYTHING and the filth that goes on in those affiliate agencies is a lot more than anyone realizes or I am even going to discuss.  

I am not giving some holier than though attitude about guys who go on tours or use sites.  I just want guys to wake up and smell the coffee.  EVERYONE is getting scammed, the honest girls that are on bad sites, the honest men, everyone.  The only positive that can come out of my experiences is sharing what happened so it doesn't happen to someone else, and maybe, not likely, but maybe, there are some fundamental changes in the way this business is conducted if enough guys get the message and stop wasting their money on false promises.

So, if you or anyone else wants to spend money going on a tour, go for it.  But, I am here to tell you there are better ways if you use a little creativity and stop believing the BS marketing that has us all convinced the ladies are sitting at home waiting for us to show up and save them from some miserable life with no husband or future because it just isn't true.

[Sculpto]

the distinction between a sex tour and a marriage tour is subtle.  They can certainly be taking place on the same tour.

What defines a sex tourist varies depending on the destination.  If a guy is going to Pattaya its not likely he is looking for a wife, but rather low cost sex with Thai girls who are willing to provide comfort for a price.  But, if a guy is going to the FSU and dangling the carrot of marriage to get in bed with civilians for free, well, that just sucks.  Do you really think if a guy has less than honorable intentions but expresses his desire in confidence to a tour operator the operator is going to tell him he can't go on the tour and lose the $4000 sale?  And, the information that is available about AFA clearly indicates they would be able to facilitate the desires of such a man without the blink of an eye.

There is a documentary of which I saw a few pieces of an Aweb tour to Odessa, Nikolaev area that used to be posted on youtube, not sure if it is still there..  One of the guys they interviewed.. an overweight guy in his mid to late fifties, who planned on finding a wife in her 20's, stated that within fifteen minutes of meeting a girl he would propose sex to them because "they are used property and expected a test drive before going any further".  It was never indicated if he had success with his method.  The man claimed it was his 6th or 7th tour with Aweb so it might be assumed he was having a good time.  I would guess some girls might go for it out of curiosity or who the heck knows why, but, it would seem he would not be repeating if he wasn't getting something out of it.  And just imagine if he did manage to sucker a girl into marriage.. what kind of life would she be signing up for?

So, lets just be honest guys.. some of us have good intentions when we do this.. and others give lip service and say all the right things but deep down they are not with good intentions, either while on the trip itself or with the girls they hope to meet and seduce or bring home with them.  Generalizations are not a sign of deep thought and every guy and situation is unique, but, if I see a duck.. I am pretty sure its a duck..

[docetae]

docetae I agree with Vinnvinny about the AFA tours.  I'm sure that some men had sex with the local women during the tour.  If this means that AFA tours are sex tours then you must also include most of the trips done by the men on these forums as sex tours. 

Where I have talk about sex ? I have written about pride from a woman point of view. There will be always people who will want easy fun, men and women, and this is normal. But when a tour is selling his advertising about the best way to find a wife, sorry, but this is a scam. best way to have "exotic" fun perhaps...

The only thing I say and stand for, is that if you are serious and looking to build a family, tours are not the place where you will have a high probability to find your second half (but for easy fun, I agree, this is the way to go...)

[BC]

the distinction between a sex tour and a marriage tour is subtle.  They can certainly be taking place on the same tour.

The line is probably so thin one can't even see it... so what does it matter.  As long as the participants are consenting adults who's to care what does or does not happen.

The tour operator is happy and neither the women or men kept by force.  The clients that don't like it don't have to return and will seek other ways to meet a mate if they are that keen on finding a FSU woman to marry.

[djfourmonie]

I couldn't find anywhere to see it. Is watching it possible from the US?

 Cough, Cough "Torrent", Cough, Cough

 Review to come....

[docetae]

docetae you said "For them it is place for women who have no pride, or are only interested by free lunch/drinks." while true you did not mention sex, you certainly implied it, IMHO.

For sex, they will always prefer Ukrainian / russian men of their age as first choice...

[William3rd]

Sculpto wouldn't trust an Aweb site at all, too many negative things.  The only reason I did the AFA tour is because they are the biggest tour operator and they had a list with thousands of engaged women.  As for the guy doing his 6th or 7th tour with them probably true, there were a couple of men on the AFA tour who had done 5 tours with AFA. 

How many men on Russian women forums do you think have done 10+ trips to the FSU or even 20+ trips.  Take a look at the top forums I guarantee if you spend a few hours sorting through the forums you will find 100+ men that have 10+ trips to FSU and are still single.  Are these men sex tourists?  Are we accomplices for listening and advising them?

docetae you said "For them it is place for women who have no pride, or are only interested by free lunch/drinks." while true you did not mention sex, you certainly implied it, IMHO.

The thousands of engaged women listd only means that they have been removed from the site. It has nothing to do with their actually being engaged. The womane could have demanded to be removed, been removed for conduct problems, been engaged, stopped responding, etc.  So the slick false advertising continues to bring in new fish. . .

[kievstar]

Has anybody on this board met their wife during any organized tour?

 

[Vinnvinny]

 .... only once when I was coming out of a strip club following a pub crawl with a group of mates. She was NOT too happy! 

[ConnerVT]

.... only once when I was coming out of a strip club following a pub crawl with a group of mates. She was NOT too happy! 

TFF!            

[Mark Davis]

From KeivStar: Has anybody on this board met their wife during any organized tour?

KievStar:

To answer your question, I did meet my wife on an organized tour - and at the social.  I really connected with five guys and each of us have now been married through the tours (except for one who had an awesome girl but couldn't pull the trigger).  The guy who introduced me to this concept met his wife nine years ago in St Petersberg on a tour at a social.  It was his third tour.

Actually, this was my first experience with tours.  In the past I'd dated in Brazil, Costa Rica and other hot spots.  I genuinely wanted to marry a lady in Rio, but she was too closely tied to family to let go.  I've also been to Canada, Egypt, Israel, Italy and Denmark.  In all of the places I've dated I've gone with other guys and we made our own arrangements for every detail.

I'm seasoned enough to believe I could go to any country in the world I wanted to and make it a good and safe experience.  But I have to say that my personal experience with the tours was positive.

Having said that, I also don't hold them to US standards.  These are hosted in third world countries where bribes are part of life and games are played.  But, did I get what I came for?  Yes.  For me, the tour companies are not the issue.  Only a shortcut.  I just wanted to have a chance to meet ladies - I could take the rest from there.  It was a concentrated infusion of a 7 to 1 girl to guy ratio - the discos of Rio were more like 2 to 1.  And the quality of the lady prospects was above what I had expected.

Yes, there were probably 6 or 7 men on the trip who came for a sex vacation.  Personally, I think this is a dishonest approach.  These ladies are signing up with "marriage agencies".  If you want a sex vacation there are plenty of places where both sides share the same expectation.  At the same time, there were some ladies who had been burned by international men in the past and just came to get whatever cash they could out of a man.  They two groups seemed to find each other.

The rest of the guys seemed very serious about finding a spouse.  We didn't have any weirdos on the tour, but some of the guys could have used a serious dose of testosterone and a confidence boost.

The tour host was intentional in trying to connect the serious minded guys with the serious minded ladies.

The amount of prospects I was introduced to made it worth the expense - compared with the money I'd have to pay to meet even a half that many by any other means.

I've done it on my own and now with a tour.  Since I met my wife on a tour and my experience (and those of the guys I know) has been positive, I favor that approach for spouse hunting.  But there is nothing wrong with just wanting to have a bikini clad date take your picture as you landed the sail fish off the Pacific side of Costa Rica.

Those are just my thoughts on the subject.
Mark

[msmoby_ru]

Hi Mark... Welcome to the group !

Thanks for "stepping up to the mark"...As one who is *very* skeptical of these tours, would you mind telling us which company you used, please?

[Mark Davis]

Hi Ms Moby!

Thanks for the welcome.  I used A Foreign Affair and so did all of the guys I mentioned.  Anything specific you want to know about it?

Mark

[msmoby_ru]

Hi Ms Moby!

Thanks for the welcome.  I used A Foreign Affair and so did all of the guys I mentioned.  Anything specific you want to know about it?

Mark

Hi Mark!


I really just wanted to know who the tour co. was as I'd started the thread and it was about AFA !! .. and I do know how to spell sceptical, reallly.

Always happy to be proved I'm wrong