Need advice after first trip to Ukraine!

[Sculpto]

Thank you everyone for your responses to my situation.

I thought my months of research would help me but after being put on the spot by this woman I just caved.

I have since ended my relationship with her. We had agreed to communicate through private email and chat and she continued to write me through RLM. After seeing the patterns you all were describing, I saw first hand that of course everything that you all have said here is true.
I decided to ask her about future intimacy as well since the subject had not come up yet.
She told me that any Russian Ukrainian woman who was serious about marriage would NEVER sleep with a man before marriage!  What an eye opener!
She must be a good girl right?  whatever, I have ended it and now have my tail between my legs.

Now that I am gunshy am not sure what it will take to get me to date anyone from the FSU again, I obviously will not be logging on to RLM ever again!

Thanks again for the info, I actually searched here for info on RLM and did not see the bad reports on that website other than the expense.

Flatsix.. I applaud you for dropping the woman and RLM.  I know it sucks to feel "used" but you are making the right decision.

There are a couple of factors that flat has mentioned here about RLM that are worth noting...

The girl continued to write through RLM even though she agreed to personal contact.  This is part of the scam from her agency.  I strongly believe the women of that agency sign a contract forcing them to do so.  basically they "belong" to the agency and must provide cash flow until they are married.

The comment that FSUW never sleep with thei rman before marriage is also another piece of art work very very common on RLM.   I once encounter the lovely "Morskaya" from Lugansk who I caught showing some nipple on the RLM cam.. she later told me she was a virgin and will never have sex before marriage.  The world famous Elnara also claimed she was a virgin and will never have sex before marriage. 

Flatsix.. I totally understand you are feeling dejected.. however.. use the lesson to your advantage.  I went through something not so different via RLM and used the lesson to my advantage afterwards.  Forget about any site that you must pay to make contact.  try vkontakt or a Russian language dating site and simply make friends.  You will find someone worth visiting I am sure and you are much less likely to encounter what amounts to organized crime designed to steel your money at the expense of your heart and self esteem.  As soon as you begin communicating with women that have not been contaminated by the disease of the marriage agency you will have a much better chance of finding someone worth spending your life with.

[Enot]

Thank you everyone for your responses to my situation.

I thought my months of research would help me but after being put on the spot by this woman I just caved.

I have since ended my relationship with her. We had agreed to communicate through private email and chat and she continued to write me through RLM. After seeing the patterns you all were describing, I saw first hand that of course everything that you all have said here is true.
I decided to ask her about future intimacy as well since the subject had not come up yet.
She told me that any Russian Ukrainian woman who was serious about marriage would NEVER sleep with a man before marriage!  What an eye opener!
She must be a good girl right?  whatever, I have ended it and now have my tail between my legs.

Now that I am gunshy am not sure what it will take to get me to date anyone from the FSU again, I obviously will not be logging on to RLM ever again!

Thanks again for the info, I actually searched here for info on RLM and did not see the bad reports on that website other than the expense.

I'm sorry about what has happened to you.  You now have experience in dealing with Good Time Girls (GTG).  You'll be able to spot them more easily now.

I've only heard sad stories from women from Odessa.  As I stated earlier, I would concentrate my search in other coutries of the former soviet union like Belarus, Moldova, and Uzbekistan (avoid the Ukraine and Russia).  I never heard any bad stories coming from these countries.

Take care and good luck.

[groovlstk]

I've only heard sad stories from women from Odessa.  As I stated earlier, I would concentrate my search in other coutries of the former soviet union like Belarus, Moldova, and Uzbekistan (avoid the Ukraine and Russia).  I never heard any bad stories coming from these countries.

One of the couples that is part of our circle of friends is an AM married to a woman from Belarus. She has been cheating on him for the past year and would dump the poor sod in a heartbeat if she had the means to support herself - or if her lover wasn't an illegal immigrant.

FWIW, just my experience but there are no free rides and no easy rides in this pursuit, if you want to be successful you have to be realistic and you have to work hard at it, above and beyond any consideration.

[Diplomacy]

Flat6:

You know you are in a place where people knew what was going on.  It is a very, very hard trip.  Mine has only started, but if you listen and are committed to the pursuit you can do well.

If you yourself are not a good judge of character then it is 10 times worse when different culture and language is added to the mix.  The way I see it you knew something was not right and learned an expensive lesson.

Does that mean give up?  That is a question only you can answer.  My reasoning behind reading and posting on the boards is I came to a lot of the same conclusions that many members write about.

You are better prepared for the future, it is your choice what that future will be.  I think a good place to start is let us know what you are looking for in a wife and who you are as a person.  It is much better to take a trip with a good map.

[Bart]

You have received excellent advise from ScottinCrimea, Grooveistk, Sculpto and others, and you have listened, FlatSix.

Next time around, use commen sense, and the knowledge you gain by reading sites like this one.

Now--about the comment "any Russian Ukrainian woman who was serious about marriage would NEVER sleep with a man before marriage!"
The opposite is true.  Every woman is unique, but just about all women who are serious about you will want to sleep with you before marriage.  The old "after three dates" axiom is not necessary true, and many women will wait longer than that to make sure you are serious about them and not just serious about sex with them.  But when they develop true feelings, sex is part of what follows.

Final shot-- Don't fall in love with a car before you kick the tires.  Don't fall in love with a girl before you know her as a friend you can trust and someone that has shown that she respects you.

[mendeleyev]

I'm obviously the odd  man out on the sex before marriage.  If I wanted an easy girl they're plentiful in any country.  There are many ladies in the FSU whom are serious about this issue and I'm happy my wife was among them.  It's simple biology--even dogs or rabbits can put two pieces of equipment together to make it work.

What makes marriage work however is usually far more than sex.  We didn't lose a thing by waiting and that's all I'll say out of respect for my very beautiful and sexy wife.

It was probably harder on us because we courted while living in Russia and I saw her almost every day.

God forbid I'd every find myself without her, but were I to court again, odds are I'd look for a repeat performance.  The old "kick the water before jumping in" argument is way overrated in this aspect of marriage. Given the short time frame most guys are in, and the fact that the biology works, there are far more important things to be testing in my opinion.

I'm currently in the process of writing a book, "What Russians Think" and am fairly well versed on the subject.  Am hoping to dovetail with prior works such as Culture Shock, A Survival Guide to Customs and Etiquette, Anna Pavlovskaya; Klass: How Russians Really Live, David K Willis; The Russians, Hedrick Smith; and The New Russians, Hedrick Smith

I think also the idea that a RW/UW will initiate sex to "claim" a man, while common with some, is not universal either.

[SilverBUllet]

flatsix,
I am coming late to this discussion and realize you have already made a decision in this matter. In case you are still checking in, here is my 2 cents to the debate. I would not myself have made any hasty decisions or judgements in this matter. Apart from the money side, to me it sounds like she was already ahead of you. For you it was the first meeting but perhaps in her mind it was more than that already before you met in person? You had already corresponded for many months and perhaps she felt this was serious already? Her mind was perhaps ahead of yours in this situation and could explain how her actions was as well? Also remember, these things, a dress a purse and new shoes might have been something she had been dreaming about for a long time. You were the new person in her life and also had the opportunity to provide this and thereby also show her that you were seriosu about your relationship. It was also Christmas as well. When people are from different cultures and background it is easy to misunderstand. As for myself, my Miss is always getting a lot of presents even from the start of our relationship and it is because I want to help, but at times I might have had similar thoughts like yours. I have learned that most of the times I have misunderstood the situation due to coming from very differenct cultures and backgrounds. For her taking so much time off from work demonstrates the importance she placed on your visit, and for many it is not so easy to just take time off from work in Ukraine. My advice which now comes too late, would have been to think closley about the situation and listen to your heart before making a decision, and not always so much what other say. Don't give up on Eastern European women just because of one lady, there are so many more out there and they are not all the same. Right? SB

[SilverBUllet]

I'm obviously the odd  man out on the sex before marriage.  If I wanted an easy girl they're plentiful in any country.  There are many ladies in the FSU whom are serious about this issue and I'm happy my wife was among them.  It's simple biology--even dogs or rabbits can put two pieces of equipment together to make it work.

What makes marriage work however is usually far more than sex.  We didn't lose a thing by waiting and that's all I'll say out of respect for my very beautiful and sexy wife.

It was probably harder on us because we courted while living in Russia and I saw her almost every day.

God forbid I'd every find myself without her, but were I to court again, odds are I'd look for a repeat performance.  The old "kick the water before jumping in" argument is way overrated in this aspect of marriage. Given the short time frame most guys are in, and the fact that the biology works, there are far more important things to be testing in my opinion.

I'm currently in the process of writing a book, "What Russians Think" and am fairly well versed on the subject.  Am hoping to dovetail with prior works such as Culture Shock, A Survival Guide to Customs and Etiquette, Anna Pavlovskaya; Klass: How Russians Really Live, David K Willis; The Russians, Hedrick Smith; and The New Russians, Hedrick Smith

I think also the idea that a RW/UW will initiate sex to "claim" a man, while common with some, is not universal either.

Why not also include a chapter about any possible or perceived differences between Russian, Ukrainian and Modovian women? Some are claiming that there are differences due to heritage and cultural differences despite being closley related nations.

[ECOCKS]

All good points raised and your reaction seems honest.

Don't despair though.  Just try to start fresh and a little wiser next time around.

Some advice, freely offered.

Be yourself.  Be honest.  Pace yourself.

If you start off buying her things like you're rich, you set an expectation that you ARE rich. If you don't like ballet, don't tell her you do because you're thinking you'd do ANYTHING for a bit of this! How will you survive 30 years of ballet without disliking her for it? If reading and computers are your thing, don't try to get here and go clubbing 3-4 times a week during your visit, you will look like an idiot and give her a picture of a different person than you really are.  Don't be surprised if she isn't happy when she begins to discover the real you. That crash back down to reality will hurt.

Yes, the women here are unbelievably beautiful.  Yes, they CAN be simpler.  Yes, they can also be hardened serial daters or semi-pro prostitutes largely living off of "gifts" from multiple men they are "dating". A few are more amateurish. For some, it is a lifestyle, not a crime.  Even some of their friends and family know and accept this.

Last thought...

If it is too good to be true, it often (but NOT always) is.

Don't take this as a totally negative, "give-up-you-loser" comment.  Be smarter next time around.  have your own little "tests" and don't hesitate to ask for advice if you are really looking for a "keeper" here in the FSU.

[mendeleyev]

Why not also include a chapter about any possible or perceived differences between Russian, Ukrainian and Modovian women? Some are claiming that there are differences due to heritage and cultural differences despite being closley related nations.

Good suggestion.  You've been reading my notes!  (Just kidding) but there will probably be a chapter or three to include the areas you mention plus Belarussia and the "Stans," Uzbekistan in particular because of the number of ethnic Russians there but having assimilated over many years.