What to if your Russian wife says she wants a divorce?

[Gator]

That is exactly how I see it. I think there is a certain amount of learning/experience you take away from a divorce. And hopefully you learn a lot about yourself and make corrections where they need to be made. I feel that a divorced woman has seen the difficulties of marriage and isn't dreaming about Prince Charming but instead looking for a real, honest and working relationship.

Divorce is not one of my criteria but I almost view it as a positive.

Very well stated.  I kept waiting for a parody or something, but too serious for that.

Pity the man who does something that is remindful of her ex-husband.

[HiTech]

Did some quick stat looking

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad323.pdf

Probability  of woman over 25 whos 2nd marriage end in devorce by 10 years 39%

Probability  of woman over 25 whos 1st marriage end in devorce by 10 years 24%

I.E. 2nd marriages tend to be terminated more than 1st marriages.

JollyRats wrote:

Divorce is not one of my criteria but I almost view it as a positive.

Although your gut may say so, stats speak other wise.

HiTech

[Faux Pas]

Did some quick stat looking

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad323.pdf

Probability  of woman over 25 whos 2nd marriage end in devorce by 10 years 39%

Probability  of woman over 25 whos 1st marriage end in devorce by 10 years 24%

I.E. 2nd marriages tend to be terminated more than 1st marriages.

JollyRats wrote:
Although your gut may say so, stats speak other wise.

HiTech

67% of all stats need 33% more stats to qualify 

Which 1% percentage of stats do we need to be in on for a safe marriage? Are there stats for that?

I'm being facetious for a reason. There is no helpful knowledge of stats in matters of the heart IMO

[ambach123]

Hi Tech is correct, he has presented facts.

To make fun of his facts is ignorance if not stupidity.

Marriage is about commitment, someone who broke it one time would easily break it again.

This is not rocket science, it is common knowledge.

[JR]

Hi Tech, no disrespect intented. I don't argue with stats, just how they are collected and compiled.

ambach, unless one knows all the particulars of the stats given they can be construed to mean anything. No one knows what the criteria for the stats were. What were the sample numbers? Three couples or three thousand? What were the demographics? Many factors can influence the outcome of a statistical sampling.

An interesting item to throw into the equasion would be: Did the person/persons admit to and remedy personal shortcomings during the divorce process and the years following.

I have no doubt that those who take the stance of "It was all THEIR fault" will fail again. Why? Because they are the same person, probably marrying the same person in a different dress committing the same mistakes. A recipe for failure...

[Faux Pas]

Hi Tech is correct, he has presented facts.

To make fun of his facts is ignorance if not stupidity.

Marriage is about commitment, someone who broke it one time would easily break it again.

This is not rocket science, it is common knowledge.

Oh...you mean like you?  

[HiTech]

Hi Tech, no disrespect intented. I don't argue with stats, just how they are collected and compiled.

ambach, unless one knows all the particulars of the stats given they can be construed to mean anything. No one knows what the criteria for the stats were. What were the sample numbers? Three couples or three thousand? What were the demographics? Many factors can influence the outcome of a statistical sampling.

An interesting item to throw into the equasion would be: Did the person/persons admit to and remedy personal shortcomings during the divorce process and the years following.

I have no doubt that those who take the stance of "It was all THEIR fault" will fail again. Why? Because they are the same person, probably marrying the same person in a different dress committing the same mistakes. A recipe for failure...

Jolly, this is a straw man argument. You are correct that how a sample was taken, just as how stats are reported, can be invalid. But if you bothered to read the report I posted, it gives you all that information.

Hence you are just trying to disqualify my stats with no real valid information.

Your next argument about throwing other questions into the mix can also change the stat outcome. But your first post of

I almost see it as a plus to be divorced

Made absolutely no qualification to the above. Your argument is how people uses stats in a non valid manor.

The classic case of this is Life expectancy is 68, there for your life expectancy is 68. (I have no idea if the number is correct just using the definition as an example). Nothing could be further from the real stats. Because the quoted 68 number is at birth, obviously some one 69 does not have a life expectancy of 68. And in the same manor your life expectancy given no other information is greater than 68.

But this does not change the fact that your life expectancy at birth was 68. And that statement is correct and valid.

unless one knows all the particulars of the stats given they can be construed to mean anything.

This is absolutely not true. Giving more particulars I.E. (bounding criteria) just changes the out come, it in no way invalidates any correct statistical statement.

Your conclusion that Divorced women (I bounded to +25 simply because that is the age group most of us are interested in) are less likely to get divorced because they already know what the problem in marriage is , is false.

Now if you wish to make a different statement such as all women who have been to consoling to learn why they had trouble staying trouble married to a man .... (choose what other criteria you wish) it would be possible to find the answer to your question.

But your statement

I have no doubt that those who take the stance of "It was all THEIR fault" will fail again. Why? Because they are the same person, probably marrying the same person in a different dress committing the same mistakes. A recipe for failure...

While this could be the case, it still does not in any way suggest that a divorced women has a better chance than a non divorced woman. It only states of the same pool (divorced woman) one who admits mistakes has a better chance.

But now lets even take a closer look at what your supposition is. What % of divorced woman do you believe are the type who would be the "It was all THEIR fault" or the evaluate what really happen type person. I would conjecture that the % of woman who are not the "It was all THEIR fault" type is fairly low, simply because if they were not that type, the would be far less likely to be divorced already.

HiTech

[JR]

Jolly, this is a straw man argument. You are correct that how a sample was taken, just as how stats are reported, can be invalid. But if you bothered to read the report I posted, it gives you all that information.

Hence you are just trying to disqualify my stats with no real valid information.

Your next argument about throwing other questions into the mix can also change the stat outcome. But your first post of  Made absolutely no qualification to the above. Your argument is how people uses stats in a non valid manor.

The classic case of this is Life expectancy is 68, there for your life expectancy is 68. (I have no idea if the number is correct just using the definition as an example). Nothing could be further from the real stats. Because the quoted 68 number is at birth, obviously some one 69 does not have a life expectancy of 68. And in the same manor your life expectancy given no other information is greater than 68.

But this does not change the fact that your life expectancy at birth was 68. And that statement is correct and valid.

This is absolutely not true. Giving more particulars I.E. (bounding criteria) just changes the out come, it in no way invalidates any correct statistical statement.

Your conclusion that Divorced women (I bounded to +25 simply because that is the age group most of us are interested in) are less likely to get divorced because they already know what the problem in marriage is , is false.

Now if you wish to make a different statement such as all women who have been to consoling to learn why they had trouble staying trouble married to a man .... (choose what other criteria you wish) it would be possible to find the answer to your question.

But your statement

While this could be the case, it still does not in any way suggest that a divorced women has a better chance than a non divorced woman. It only states of the same pool (divorced woman) one who admits mistakes has a better chance.

But now lets even take a closer look at what your supposition is. What % of divorced woman do you believe are the type who would be the "It was all THEIR fault" or the evaluate what really happen type person. I would conjecture that the % of woman who are not the "It was all THEIR fault" type is fairly low, simply because if they were not that type, the would be far less likely to be divorced already.

HiTech

Much adiue about nothing...I was not trying to rip you a new one or even say that you are wrong in any way. I was and am only pointing out that stats are not the end all to anything. Human being are individuals and should be treated as such.
A quick glance at the link shows how they stacked the deck. All samples were within the ages of 15-44. I don't fit into that category. How would the stats change if there were no age limitations?  And they admit that the very young ones are totally skewed to the high side. How many children aged 15 are getting married? I don't know of a single one but I do know a lot who are over the age of 44. Stats are only as good as the criteria used to collect them.

For example: your link states that the stats were collected with an elevated number of Black and Hispanic women compared to what actually occurs within the population. Page 3, Para 2. So I guess you could say that is real and valid information taken from your own reference material.

I still say a person who has been thru a divorce, looked inward and dealt with whatever demons may be there and come away a better person is less likely to commit the same mistakes.
I would not marry a divorced woman who stated that all men are pigs. Unresolved issues there. I would however respect someone who could look at themselves objectively and say "Here is where I failed and this is what I've done to correct my mistakes."

So I won't throw away all divorced women over some stats. I will however look at them closely to try to determine if there are unresolved issues or unhealthy attitudes.

Anyway, peace man!

[WmGO]

I haven't looked at divorce stats in U.S. in a long time, but
IIRC the divorce rate goes up significantly for 2nd marriages,
up more for 3rd and for 4th is something like 90%.

If you think about it it is kind of weird. I mean, theoretically the
two previously married/divorced people know their faults better,
have learned more, and want to make it work more, etc., etc.
But statistically, the divorce rates just go higher with
each successive marriage.

Perhaps folks could offer reasons, speculations, analysis or
even results of sociological studies for why this is? I think it
would be interesting and productive.

[JR]

I think you also tend to put up with less shit in successive marriages. And the less committed tend to move on rather than work to make it work.

[Ronnie]

Has anyone factored in children?  They are usually a major factor in keeping first marriages together and sometimes a factor in splitting up second marriages.

I personally feel the main reason for the stats is that in the field of potential candidates for first marriages, there are a large number of very easy going people who seem to naturally know how to make a marriage relationship work.  When two of them marry, they are both taken from the pool for good.

In the pool of previously-married people, there are some who would have been forever married were it not for a very bad decision on their part in the choice of a mate the first time around.  If two of these bad choosers now make a good choice and marry each other, then the pool is reduced further until what eventually remains are many of those who were were the bad choices and a few who keep making bad decisions.  

I also think that there exists a psychology in the divorced person who finds that because of the disappointment(s) of the past relationships, he/she protects his/her feelings by not letting them run too deep.  This gives separation and divorce more of a hair trigger thing rather than a hard pull.

[HiTech]

WmGO: My guess would be that the cause is nothing more than a filter process.

If you just think of the people who will be successful, and the traits that make them successful. Then realize each divorce generation leaves the successful people behind. You can then see that in a general sense the traits that make someone success full in marriage  become less in the people pool with each divorce generation.

HiTech

[mies]

Perhaps folks could offer reasons, speculations, analysis or
even results of sociological studies for why this is? I think it
would be interesting and productive.

my own interpretation: because people aren't as afraid of divorce anymore. First time it's kind of scary - one was hoping to live together with spouse till death do apart, and then - bang: divorce. Second time it's like: "this marriage also didn't work? ah..whatever.. i know this wasn't my fault - I just happen to marry wrong people every time."  

[mies]

WmGO: My guess would be that the cause is nothing more than a filter process.

If you just think of the people who will be successful, and the traits that make them successful. Then realize each divorce generation leaves the successful people behind. You can then see that in a general sense the traits that make someone success full in marriage  become less in the people pool with each divorce generation.

HiTech

yeah... this theory would be true if you assume that both people in failed marriage weren't "successful". But this may be wrong. Let's say woman marries a man, they live happily for 2-3 years, child is born, and then man tells her he has a pregnant lover on a side and he wants divorce. Was it a fault of a married woman? I doubt.
Or reverse situation: happy marriage, wife tells her husband she felt in love with someone else and wants divorce. Was this a fault of a married man? Unlikely.

Going even further - not every married couple is happy. Some are, some aren't. Many couple with alcoholics never break-up. Not because they are particularly successful, but because wife has damaged personality, and man is an addict. For the prospect of healthy relationship - neither of those two - an addict and co-dependent - would be good material. Yet they got stuck in the "marriage filter". If they divorce - it is very improbable that man will be sought after by normal women, nor woman with damaged personality will be favored by normal men.  

[mies]

...

agree with every point.

[miladana]

Thanks SJ, I think I should have phrased that differently, as some pointed out children are not the proterty of any parent.
However if you guys are out for 'traditional values', then you should understand that the mother is the one taking care of the children, while the father is the provider of income.
This means that it is in most cases in the interest of the child to remain with the mother in case of a divorce, and the father should provide adequate means for the child he has helped bringing in to this world. That does not mean that a father would love a child less than a mother, or would be a worse parent. However as a young father I can tell you that, even when feeding is not an issue, the bond between a child and the mother is many times stronger, which means that to separate a child from the mother one should provide a very strong reason.

i am not qualified to comment on this.. but :
[1] i think shadow is a cool guy... and people should jump on him
[2] i just hope you feel better..