Is my Russian wife cheating on me or am I overreacting?

[BillyB]

(i used to have a bad track record BEFORE i met her, 3 years ago).

Your bad track record may have hurt your chances on finding a woman with a good track record. Maybe you had a lack of knowlege on the difference between a good girl and a good time girl is or maybe you were always attracted to the good time girl. There's a lot of truth to the saying "You reap what you sow? You plant a bad seed in life, you get bad results. I'm glad that you admited that was the past. Now the same type of guys that you were are working on your wife.

приэзжаыте, the husband will leave soon in уту so I shall be one
This sentence had happy face at the end.

Your wife knows her behavior isn't appropriote in a marriage for her to say that. She is flirting and willing to get drunk. Her guy friends aren't telling her to go home to her husband and baby. Her guy friends know when women are drunk, they let down their guard. Yeah, they'd F her the moment she lets down her guard. Who doesn't believe that??? Even if she doesn't intend to let her guard down, she shouldn't put her self in the situation of being with drunk with men who flirt with married women. It'll always be on your mind if her next child is yours. Maybe it's on your mind about your current child?

Your wife is not focused on your marriage. Show her what you found and stop it or stop the marriage before you get in to deep. If she doesn't want a husband, she shouldn't get married. This isn't about controlling her and preventing her from having friends. It's about building a solid marriage. If she doesn't want to help build it with you, then you need to find someone else who will. She knows her behavior is destructive to your marriage. Does she care? I think not but she hangs on to you because you're reliable and steady financial support. The good time boys aren't. It's time to see how big a balls you got and how much of a man you are.

[Blues Fairy]

You dont think meeting at noon or late afternoon would be better? so your husband does not worry about you and where you are at mid night!

As long as I call and let him know I'm safe - no.
Noons and late afternoons are okay with me but my friends who visit may have different schedules.

Anyway, me is me and the OP's wife is a different story; based on the quoted chat I do not think she's cheating but I seriously doubt she's in the habit of keeping her husband informed about her friends or meetings.  Serious trust issues on both sides.  Not a good sign.

Muddy; I think your message about keyloggers has been delivered enough times; no need to repeat it like a parrot in every post of yours.

[Muddy]

First advice I will give. If you need to put a spy program into your computer to check on spouse then you might as well go to a divorce lawyer. It is already over.
Marriage is based on trust.

Some people are so SIMPLE!

[BC]

Quote from: BC on Today at 18:10:32

I personally don't disagree with you..  but I do know there are a lot of strange relationships out there.  

Yes, but for "strange" relationships to work, they must be consensual. If the OP is here asking questions, clearly he is not okay with it.

The OP did not mention anything at all about consent.. only what he 'found' on her computer that raised his doubts.

He may well have said 'Yeah, go ahead and have fun..'

The original post:

Your Question
is my russian wife cheating on me?
Lately i've had a odd feeling my russian wife is cheating on me or at least hiding something from me. I dont speak russian and she just left for the weekend to visit her russian guy friends. I found this message on my computer from her to them. Long story short i want to be able to trust her and I hope someone can translate this letter and let me know what she is saying and if i'm overreacting.

I don't see anything at all here indicating he did not consent..

[Misha]

I don't see anything at all here indicating he did not consent..

Again, he is starting to have doubts. It will be interesting to hear more from him. I am sure that he is trying to convince himself that it is acceptable behavior, he is doing his best to trust her (and turn a blind eye to all that she is doing), but the fact that he is starting to ask questions and starting to look at evidence of potential wrongdoing, suggests to me that he may be starting to reconsider the appropriateness of her behavior. He can correct me if I am wrong.

This brings to mind Shakespeare:

O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock
The meat it feeds on. That cuckold lives in bliss,
Who, certain of his fate, loves not his wronger:
But O, what damned minutes tells he o'er
Who dotes, yet doubts, suspects, yet strongly loves!

Yes, it is easier if the cuckold either remains in complete ignorance or simply accept his wife's behavior. The one who suffers is the one who doubts, who suspects, yet loves. Our OP may fall in this latter category.

[Misha]

Even if she doesn't intend to let her guard down, she shouldn't put her self in the situation of being with drunk with men who flirt with married women.

I agree with you Billy. How does that line in the Lord's Prayer go? "And lead us not into temptation"? To have a strong marriage, both must work towards avoiding temptations that could lead to actions that will lead to the downfall of the marriage. Yes, not every woman who goes out getting drunk with guys will cheat on her husband, but she is certainly increasing the odds that it will happen. The same would be true of a man.

It's about building a solid marriage.

And a strong family as well.

[BC]

 

Some people are so SIMPLE!

Muddy,

"Trust but verify" simply does not work in relationships.  The poster you are chuckling at is quite correct IMHO.  The very nature of a marital bond is built on trust, it's the foundation.  Past and even current events in my life have substantiated this time and time again.

Misha,

Thanks for the Shakespeare quote, indeed interesting.

[GQBlues]

If she were simply going out and getting drunk over the weekend and leaving her husband and baby at home, I would find that unacceptable behavior.

Misha-

I don't need to quote the OP's posts again. His chief concern was to get verification on the script his wife exchanged with a friend to see if his fears are warranted. The RWs who did the translation seem to imply it's fairly benign.

The issue with the drinking incident doesn't clearly tell me a) this is habitual, and b) it was planned. She took the bus from Wis. to Chicago to see her friends. She apparently got drunk and had to be driven back the next day because of it. All weekend to me implies Saturday and Sunday. That's all WE know, unless there was a post I missed.

The OP didn't say that her meeting her friends was something he doesn't agree with. On the contrary, the absence of him saying so implies to me he didn't see anything wrong with it and giving her a break was mutually agreed upon.

Based on this premise ~ how are you folks became so convinced there's a high probability that the true father of the child was Chicago Dima? Enlighten me.

Is it right to go partying with male friends all the time when a woman is already married? No, but we don't have that in this story.

Is it right for a mother to leave her child for the weekend to meet with friends? Habitually, IMO no. If this was a lone instance and was pre-discussed and mutually agreed upon, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Does it make a whole lot of sense for any man to come to the internet and solicit people's opinion (who are fed with limited information at best ) he doesn't know to help determine his marital situation? IMHO, for me 'hell no'. Had we collectively said get a divorce lawyer and get it over quickly, do you think he should? Would you have?

What ever happened to all those altrusitic qualities men on boards like this squack about women from FSU ad nauseum?

Why marry a woman out of culture, out of country, at times out of language if men are prone to jump the gun and living their life on the edge and easily out of trust?

[Muddy]

Muddy,

The very nature of a marital bond is built on trust, it's the foundation.  Past and even current events in my life have substantiated this time and time again.

ok

[BillyB]

he is starting to have doubts.

He's got serious doubts about his marriage to post what he did on the internet. Even if he consented to letting her go out with male friends, he did not expect the results of what happened. Any man who starts to suspect their wife is unfaithful will lose trust in her and question if his children is his. To sweep this under the rug and forget about it is not mentally healthy for the OP. He needs to bring up what he found and end her bad behavior now for the sake of his sanity and their marriage before it derails to the point it'll never get back on track.

I'm curious who bought the drinks? If the male friends bought the drinks and loaded her up with alcohol, they most likely were hoping for something in return. Party men who want the married women they're partying with to get drunk aren't doing it for free. They could at least invite the husbands. Certainly they did not care about her safety going home drunk. Did they let her drive home drunk or did they care enough as true friends would and drive her home themselves?

If I had a daughter who brought a boy home to meet me for a first date, I would lay down the law/rules. Certainly getting her drunk will be against the rules and there will be consequences if the rules are broke. After I lay down the law, I would probably talk about my gun collection.

Here we are not talking about a daughter but a wife and the rules for both husband and wife should have been established before getting married and if broken, there will be consequences such as the end of the marriage. Now the OP has to lay down the law that he's comfortable with and if she doesn't respect his rules or at a minimum, his feelings and grant him peace of mind, then it's time to move on. Getting married isn't about getting a ticket to one's selfish desires, it's about making some sacrifices. The OP use to be a bad boy but he says he is 100% faithful to his wife. I believe him and he made a sacrifice to give up a lifestyle that he enjoys for one woman.

Regardless if her conversation was innocent with her male friend, it was immature. Immature people should not get married or have babies.

[Misha]

Is it right to go partying with male friends all the time when a woman is already married? No, but we don't have that in this story.

It is in the transcript of messages that the OP provided.

What ever happened to all those altrusitic qualities men on boards like this squack about women from FSU ad nauseum?

What altruistic qualities are you referring to?

Why marry a woman out of culture, out of country, at times out of language if men are prone to jump the gun and living their life on the edge and easily out of trust?

You see, I did not just marry a woman, I did not even just marry a RW, I married a woman that I knew and only after I was certain as to her values and her character. My wife is a good woman who happens to be from Russia. We value each other, respect each other, and have certain expectations as to how we will behave.

[GQBlues]

It is in the transcript of messages that the OP provided.

No it didn't. The guy (may drink) drinks a lot but it doesn't mean she does. Most Russian men drink a lot, but it doesn't stop WMs from getting their wives from Russia ~ including you.

What altruistic qualities are you referring to?

OY, family-oriented certainly comes to mind.

You see, I did not just marry a woman, I did not even just marry a RW, I married a woman that I knew and only after I was certain as to her values and her character. My wife is a good woman who happens to be from Russia. We value each other, respect each other, and have certain expectations as to how we will behave.

That's really getting old Misha. I doubt anyone's wife came out of a box with a 20% discount.

You say this but then jump to some wild unsubstantiated conclusions on these types of issues. If you are so confident of your conviction and disposition, your reactionary tendencies show the contrary. These are reactions of people unsure of themselves and what they do.

[Misha]

No it didn't. The guy may drinks a lot but it doesn't mean she does. Most Russian men drink a lot, but it doesn't stop WMs from getting their wives from Russia. Including you.

Again, I got to know my wife. When we were dating and once we were in a committed relationship, she did not go out with men who were drinking to all hours of the night. Likewise, I did not go out cruising the town once I was engaged. This behavior continues after our marriage. To repeat for the umpteenth time, I carefully looked for a woman with compatible values, and I found such a woman. I will never, in no way, apologize for that. 

That's really getting old Misha. I doubt anyone's wife came out of a box with a 20% discount.

Getting personal are we. Again, some men take the time to get to know their wives and know what they are getting into, others seem to simply marry the first woman than crosses their path and will then generalize her behavior to all Russian women 

[GQBlues]

Again, I got to know my wife. When we were dating and once we were in a committed relationship, she did not go out with men who were drinking to all hours of the night. Likewise, I did not go out cruising the town once I was engaged. This behavior continues after our marriage. To repeat for the umpteenth time, I carefully looked for a woman with compatible values, and I found such a woman. I will never, in no way, apologize for that. 

Then if you're absent in understanding you're likely preaching to the choir, what exactly are you impying? 10 of them didn't? Maybe 2, a hundred? Maybe you believe I didn't because we differ on this opinion? Are you implying the OP didn't take his time? How do you know that?

Getting personal are we. Again, some men take the time to get to know their wives and know what they are getting into, others seem to simply marry the first woman than crosses their path and will then generalize her behavior to all Russian women 

Lather, rinse, repeat. See above.

You conveniently skipped my queries above. Why?

[Misha]

You say this but then jump to some wild unsubstantiated conclusions on these types of issues. If you are so confident of your conviction and disposition, your reactionary tendencies show the contrary. These are reactions of people unsure of themselves and what they do.

Reactionary tendencies? I will not apologize either for believing that certain morals should be upheld. I will not apologize for my belief that married men should not be out to the wee hours of the night with other women, and that women should not be out partying with men (regardless of whether they drink or not) leaving their baby and husband at home. Call it reactionary if you will, but I believe that certain things are moral (ethical if you prefer). Sure, most people fail to uphold these values some of the time, myself included, but that does not mean that we should simply reject them out of hand.

Do I trust my wife? Yes, absolutely. I also value my wife for her behavior and her values.

[Ravens9273]

Many here are completely missing the point of what the OP wrote.

HE only wrote of ONE occasion of her going away with guy friends and getting drunk. No where did he say she does this night after night or weekend after weekend. Only ONE situation this occured and so many are making her out to be a bad person without knowing the story or who the Men were to her.

As BluesFairy said. She would have done the same with college buddies etc... Maybe not get drunk but she would have met them.

I would have no problems with my wife doing the same. Does she not have the right to see old friends?

No one here knows the situation yet are responding as if this is a habbit for her. That she is not a good mother etc...
The translation clearly shows she is happy in the marriage by her reaction to her mothers comments.

What is the crime she committed seeing friends for a weekend?

As I said it is not week after week or night after night. It was a one time event. Had it been an often ordeal then there is issues for concern but it was not.


Now to those who feel that it is a joke to say marriage is based on TRUST.
To me then you should not be married.
While those of you want to knock others of us who believe this or who see nothing wrong with what the OP's wife did to be honest you need to look at yourselves. This clearly shows it is you who are not secure in your own relationships to feel you have to spy, and or watch every move your wife makes. Do not try to turn it around that I or others who agree in my views should look at our marriages. I have no problems if my wife wanted to go out with guy friends. I am secure enough in myself, in my wife and my marriage.
If you have issues I think you are the one lacking in the security.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, going out with guys and getting drunk is definitely not the way for her to build that trust, and not the way for him to allow this giving her that 'freedom'. Especially when these men are Russian and he doesn't know them. Just one time you are saying, well, for me personally that would be totally enough! Even if my husband went with guys and got drunk! There would be a scandal of the year! Friends, old Russian buddies, come on, this is totally clear, and it's not the case that BF described. BillyB noticed she put a smilie at the end of her sentence "come over, my husband won't be here and I will be alone" 

I am sure this chatting sample isn't just the only chatting session, and her drinking and going with men episode isn't probably either. 

But another thing - what is her husband not doing right that is driving her away to do all these things??? What ever she is seeking outside she isn't getting inside the marriage. It's not an excuse for her actions, but if we want to dig deeper.

[groovlstk]

After my wife arrived and we began meeting Russian expats here in the US, one strong impression I felt (I had nothing to go on but my senses) was that the Russian people immediately assumed that my wife married me out of convenience. They didn't say anything to this affect, but there was a certain coldness that went beyond a first meeting of strangers - like they didn't want to get close to me or, in American parlance, they didn't want to look me in the eye. I also noticed that during such meetings there were usually a few single Russian guys who immediately made a beeline to talk to my wife whenever I was distracted. They hung around for a few hours and then quietly left.

I had my suspicions but it wasn't until a year or so later when one of the married guys who was there (and who has since become a very close friend of mine) explained to me that Russian guys living in the US make a sport of being first to doink the wife of an American, since they (often correctly) assume she didn't marry for love.

I've been a big defender of RM on here whenever the old cliches about alcoholics and abusers surfaces, and quite frankly in my younger days I would have behaved similarly. Yet if my gf/fiancee/wife was disappearing for the weekend (and the OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like something she did for the first time) and getting drunk with a group of RM, I wouldn't hang around much longer - and I'm 200% certain that were the situation reversed, my wife would feel the same.

FWIW, my wife goes out maybe one night per week with her Russian friends, with my blessing. I'm always invited and sometimes I'll join them, but mostly I understand that even if she wont admit it, she needs her own space so I make an excuse and find something else to do.

[hiii98]

what i'm trying to say is perhaps she was losing touch with her russian identity & the change you've seen is her trying to re-connect with her identity?

I think your definatly onto something there.  Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me.  Myabe i'm a controlling jerk because how i feel is that i've worked so hard to assimiliate her into American culture and she finally is adapted extremely well i feel like she took a major step backwards.  Its NOT that i have a problem with the culture itself is that life has been extrmely hard for her here,  due to her nieveness of american ways and laws.  I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities,  just like she had done ALL weekeend. 

[hiii98]

i will try to read all of the replies to evening, i'm at work now and i didnt want to read this while at the house, as she was looking over my shoulder all day.

[Misha]

I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities,  just like she had done ALL weekeend.  

Thank you. This is the answer that I was looking for. Sadly, you married a woman who likes to party and being drunk 24/7. Bringing her to America wasn't going to magically change that. This, I would argue, is not part of a Ukrainian identity, but it may be part of her identiy. There are many, many Ukrainians and Russian who do not drink 24/7. The question is whether you want a wife who will continue drinking and partying with friends?

Also, how old are you? How old is she?

[BillyB]

Many here are completely missing the point of what the OP wrote.

HE only wrote of ONE occasion of her going away with guy friends and getting drunk. No where did he say she does this night after night or weekend after weekend. Only ONE situation this occured and so many are making her out to be a bad person without knowing the story or who the Men were to her.

I don't think anyone missed any point. One time is all it takes to drive a husband nuts. It drove the OP to come here to say he suspects his wife cheating on him. It drove the OP to do some investigating to find what she's talked about in her mail. What you guys translated for him doesn't bring him more comfort. Even if he's over paranoid with ONE incident, he can't live with it so he needs to do something about it to give him peace of mind.

If you guys translated a conversation between his wife and her male friends that simply said "Hey, me and a few other college buddies are going out for a few drinks and going talk about old times" that would be more comforting for him. They didn't even offer to invite the husband. But she made it a point to tell the men the husband will go and she will be alone "smiley face"

hiii98, Read what Misha wrote how he observed his wife's behavior and was comfortable about it before marrying her. You seem to have known your wife was a party animal back in Ukraine yet you married her anyway. Yeah the sex was fun but you did yourself no favors thinking you could tame a wild animal. Just ask Roy Horn of Siegfried and Roy. At the time you married her, she was not marriage material.

She's looking over your shoulder now because she suspects you're on to her. Don't delay. Have a talk now and get some closure.

[Muddy]

I think your definatly onto something there.  Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me.  Myabe i'm a controlling jerk because how i feel is that i've worked so hard to assimiliate her into American culture and she finally is adapted extremely well i feel like she took a major step backwards.  Its NOT that i have a problem with the culture itself is that life has been extrmely hard for her here,  due to her nieveness of american ways and laws.  I felt like i was back in Ukraine with her being drunk 24/7 and my life here in america is full of responsability with children and work and life in ukraine was filled with good friends and non stop parties...and what seemed like no responsabilities,  just like she had done ALL weekeend. 

You only know about this little chat, maybe there so many things she has said and done that you don't know anything about.

After this chat you must do all you can to find out more about her.
At this time dont tell her about this chat

[Gator]

Sadly, you married a woman who likes to party and being drunk 24/7.

Misha,

I agree that drinking 24/7 is absurd, yet your use of the word "sadly" makes you seem judgmental, perhaps sanctimonious. 

Some of us enjoy partying, and some of us enjoy the personality that enjoys a party.

I am certain that your wife is a good person as are you.  From what you have described over the years, the two of you are near soulmates. 

My wife and I are starkly different from you and your wife.  No offense intended, however, if my wife were married to you she would be bored to death.  A bike ride and afternoon tea would not do it for her.  And I am certain you would probably find her not your cup of tea. 

Just because my wife and I are different from you does not make us unhappy, nor does it make us bad.  It means only that we are different.

My wife is lively and I relish such personalities.  She really enjoys a party, so she goes out with her friends 1-2 times per week.  When with RW, she comes home the latest (2 am). 

The difference from the OP’s wife:

-  My wife goes out with women friends, not men friends.
-  Almost all of her friends are married.
-  She calls me frequently and makes me speak to the other RW.


Do I worry?  Yes.  Two issues. 

-  One is DUI, so we talk about that far more than with whom she danced.   

-  The other is her insisting that I come with her.  When I do, I have a great time; however, we don't return until 3-4 am, and I lose all my golf wagers the next day because I am tired.

[groovlstk]

Quote from: CallMeSasha on Today at 03:39:31 AM

what i'm trying to say is perhaps she was losing touch with her russian identity & the change you've seen is her trying to re-connect with her identity?

I think your definatly onto something there.  Maybe i'm misinterpreting her reverting back to her true ukrainian identity as somehow cheating on me. 

Without commenting on the OP's particular situation, I was inclined to chalk up the first quote from CallMeSasha as a silly rationalization, yet another way that men deceive themselves when they're in over their heads. But there is another angle besides the "losing touch w/her russian identity" stuff: when a woman emigrates on a K1, at first she is 100% dependent on her fiance for everything, way beyond the basics of food, clothing, and shelter. In some ways it's like being responsible for a child. I can certainly understand that when she feels comfortable enough to start reaching out and making her own friends, going places alone, etc., that it can freak a guy out. After all, chances are he didn't live with her for an extended period and, even if her dependence upon him was sometimes annoying, eventually he got used to living this way and somewhere in his mind he expected things to continue as before. Just another adjustment to make, though - evolve or die.