Vaccinations

[lawman65]

I'm planning a winter trip to Kiev and it being the cold / flu season, which vaccinations are recommended. What fluids to avoid, water? foods? I would not like to get some sort of bug from eating or drinking something that would ruin my trip. Len

[Turboguy]

It is best to drink water.   Even bottled beverages can cause a problem from any ice cubes in them.   Even the water that dishes were washed with can be a problem.

Usually if you stick to bottled water to drink you will be fine.  You don't need any special vacinations.  If you get flu shots for here get them for there if you want.

I will be there in 5 days myself.    I have been there a half dozen times and got sick one time even drinking bottled water.  Our whole group did.   The other times I was find and even drank tap water occassionaly.

[Albert]

Well get your flu shot for sure, but it still may not help as there are many strains of flu and our shots are designed for what they think may strike the USA.  May be different in other areas of the world.  Get all the various heppatitus shots started.  There are a series so you can't get them all done before you leave . . . but get started.  Get the tetanus also.  They are only good for 10 years.  Go to CDC web site for what shots to get for what areas.

Regarding water . . . . drink only the bottled stuff.  Nothing out of the tap.  Depending on your tolerance, you may be able to brush your teeth with the tap water, but I wouldn't risk it if you are only going to be there a short time.  It can set you back 3-4 days if you get a case of the extreme runs.  Be sure to get a prescription for Cipro and take some with you.  Cipro is available in generic now, so it is cheaper than Levoquin.  Cipro will knock the h&ll out of a stomach bacterial infection, but may take 3 days.

With the bottled water, there is the crap with fiz in it and the non fiz.  In Russian, the non fiz kind is pronounced 'biz gazza' which means without gas.  If you purchase in a store, squeeze the bottles.  The biz gazza type give a little bit, whereas those with gas are rock solid.  Be sure to state biz gazza in the restaurants also.  And, in the restaurants, ask your gal to tell the waiters to bring the bottles to you UNOPENED.  When they bring the bottles opened, chances are they just got filled from the water tap in the kitchen.

For eating, follow the old rules of boil it, peel it, cook it, or avoid it.  For me, this means avoid salads with raw vegetables, even though this is my staple food here in USA.  I also have gotten sick three times on the ice cream served at restaurants.  I think they use non pasterized milk or at least unsanitary means to make the ice cream.  I never have had trouble with the ice cream purchased in packaged bars from the street vendors, nor have I had trouble with any ice cream from McDonalds.

Sure, I know many guys will laugh and tell you Kyiv is not a third world place and you can eat just like in USA.  Well, that may be true for some . . . . . . but there is a great variation in the tolerance for unfamiliar bacteria that each of us has.  Some have no trouble at most places around the world and others can get pretty sick eating these same foods.  Again, if you will be somewhere for a month, you might be able to afford to take more risk with the food and water, and have a few down days.  But for a 3-10 day visit, it would be a shame to have any down days.

[Albert]

Chances are Turboguy and the rest of his group drank 'bottled water' that was merely filled up from a tap in the kitchen.  And of course it could happen even buying a good name brand at a store because they don't have such things as quality control, inspections, etc.  Plus there are always payoffs to the inspectors, if there are any.  Nothing is fool proof but just try to think logical all the time and try your best.

Sometimes even our gals don't understand the problems of people drinking water with bacteria that is foreign to a person's stomach.  A friend of mine spent a month with a particular gal and kept getting sick.  But yet she kept getting him water from a bottle in her refrigerator.  Come to find out she was merely filling the bottle from the kitchen tap.  He told her he only wanted to drink bottled water, so she gave him water from a bottle.

[ronin308]

I usually buy the Bonaqua water which is bottled by Coca Cola.  Definately follow the biz gazza rule unless you want carbonated water.  Also make sure it is unopened.

I'm one of the strong stomached.  I haven't had a problem with eating there, but I have come back with other ailments but I can't say that they were from the Ukraine, in one case I believe I got sick during the flight home.

[Turboguy]

Well, most of the water I drank came in a sealed bottle from the local superette.   On other previous trips to Ukraine I was virtually drinking the tap water without a problem.    I was never so sick in my life and have been much more careful since then.   That was for a European Connections tour and we were all experiencing the same thing.

[BC]

http://www.rense.com/general2/watrpur.htm

[Son of Clyde]

The first time I went to Kiev we were making tea and soup from the carbonated water and it was wretched stuff. Not fun to brush your teeth with either. Some stores have the non carbonated stuff in huge 5 gallon containers. The locals don't like tap water either.

[wxman]

The last time I was there in October, I got a strain of e coli from the food I ate. It didn't hit me until my return trip to America (I must have set the record for most trips to the restroom on the plane), and it lasted for almost 5 days. I wish I would have got a prescription for Cipro, but I thought after 4 trips and no problems, there would be no need.  I am always very cautious and only drink bottled water, brush my teeth with bottled water, etc. Since e coli has about a 3 day incubation period, I timed it closely to the trip we made to one of the monasteries and we stopped at a roadside cafe. Of course it could have come from from other restaurants too, but I never had problems before at those locations. Of course, I will never blame mine or her cooking while I was there.

[Admin]

The last time I was there in October, I got a strain of e coli from the food I ate. It didn't hit me until my return trip to America (I must have set the record for most trips to the restroom on the plane), and it lasted for almost 5 days. I wish I would have got a prescription for Cipro, but I thought after 4 trips and no problems, there would be no need. I am always very cautious and only drink bottled water, brush my teeth with bottled water, etc. Since e coli has about a 3 day incubation period, I timed it closely to the trip we made to one of the monasteries and we stopped at a roadside cafe. Of course it could have come from from other restaurants too, but I never had problems before at those locations. Of course, I will never blame mine or her cooking while I was there.

Cipro is pretty easily available in Ukraine - only by the generic name - ciprofloxacin hydrochloride. I used to have a course of the tablets and had the Ukrainian brand name - but most pharmacies can find it is you provide the generic name.  It is MUCH less expensive than here. I think I paid about $10.00 USD for a course of 10 tablets.

Another popular antibiotic here in the States is Zithromax - known in Ukraine by the name of Sumamed. Cost is about $12.00 USD for a standard course of 6 tablets.

Cipro is good for intestinal infections and Sumamed is good for respiratory infections.

On one of my trips there I managed to pick up Giardia. Most likely transmission vehicle was from the water the hotel used to clean the salads I ate. I was staying in a small city at a Soviet-era hotel which served breakfast (sort of) included in the hotel rate. Most mornings it was a simple salad. Fortunately, the problem did not become TOO serious until I returned to the States.

Unlike some of the other's posting, I have never had any reason to suspect that bottled water I purchased was tainted or counterfeited - though it is certainly true their standards of purity are more suspect than ours - and their inspection standards are REALLY suspect. Still, I am pretty confident of never having suffered from the bottled water. Originally, I hated the water containing carbonation - but after enough time, it sort of grows on you.

FWIW

- Dan

[jb]

I cannot vouch for the purity of whatever bottled water you might buy  in the "magazins" in the smaller towns around the Ukraine or in Russia,  but I'm pretty confident that what you buy in those sealed 10 liter  jugs you see in supermarkets in the major cities is good stuff. 

In each of my trips to the FSU, even back when it was still the USSR, I  always packed a few essientials.  Among them was a small bottle of  Lomotil, and a round of general purpose anti-biotics, although you can  purchase "over-the-counter" there, what we have to have a perscription  for here, you need to be aware of what you need.  Generally  speaking, since most of us are not well versed in the exotic diseases  we might encounter  abroad,  prescribing for yourself might not be a good idea.   I've had good luck having a chat with my local doctor before a trip,  and asking his advice regarding what meds I should be walking around  with, and self-medicating with.  I don't advise walking into a  pharmacy in a strange foreign city and asking for drugs to treat e-coli  when in fact, you may have contracted Giardia.  The two are not  compatible although the symptoms are very similar.

From a general health point of view, the best action you can take if  you get seriously sick while abroad is to get on a plane and come  home.  Having a language barrier with a potential g/f is one  thing, having a language barrier with your physician is quite another.

[Albert]

I actually was treated in the Ukrainian medical system on my last trip.  I developed a problem and my gal talked me into going.  I probably wouldn't have except she had previously worked in a medical establishment and was good friends with the head of one of the depts.  She called him and he told her which of the specialties we should go to.  Then he even met us at the entrance and took us to see this specialist.  They all blabbered in Russian while she described to them my problems.  And, then they refused to take any money from me since I was with a special (to them) gal.

Later, we went to another polyclinic (as they call them) closer to my apt and had to pay the physician 30 grievna.  And he put the money directly in his own pocket.  It was all much better looking than I had suspected.  Maybe like a 1960s hospital in USA, but didn't make me feel uncomfortable.  Course I don't think I would have let them stick a needle in me and for sure not cut on me.  But I took the oral medications after looking them up on Internet.

[al-c]

When I was in Novosibirsk in May, I was careful to only drink the name brand botttled water out of sealed bottles.  Still I got a nasty gastrointesinal illness, starting on the day I got back that lasted for about a week.

There are just too many variables there, between the food, the beverages, the restaurants, the home cooked meals made from fresh ingredients.  The way I look at it, you are rolling the dice with this.  You take reasonable precautions, and if you get sick, you get sick.

Check the U.S. State Separtment website, which maintains notices for specific health related risks for traveling to various parts of the world.  They did have one in 2004, the first time I went there, about an encephalitis problem in the Ural Mountains.

 

[Bruce]

For all its worth I have never had to use any medications in the FSU.  I've never had any GIT problems what so ever - though on two occasions shortly after I got back to the USA I got terrible colds.  I attribute the colds in part to the stress of travel / time zone changes / caught something on the plane.  Anyway, I always take three medications with me;

1.  Lomotil (stomps you up if you get the runs)

2.  Amoxicillin tablets (good general antibiotic).

3.  Metronidazole (commonly called flagyl) - this is a good general anti-protozoal (for things like amebiasis, giardia).

However, unless you are in the medical profession I do not know how you could easily self-prescribe.  Flagyl knocks the crud out of you so you really do not want to take it unless you have to.