My wife wants to cancel her health insurance and live without it

[Journeyman]

What can I tell my wife to convince her that her idea is a very, very bad idea (assuming you agree with me)?

BTW, I believe that this problem is rooted in both cultural differences and the difficulty of learning how to live in a new society (and accept new attitudes) -- where many things are different -- including how to manage both risk and money.

My wife wants me to cancel her health insurance, and live without health insurance.  She insists that paying money for insurance is like “throwing money in the garbage” (her words).  She lived in Ukraine for over 30 years, and only arrived in America recently.  I obtained a very good health insurance policy for her as my wife even before she arrived in the US so that she had coverage the instant she landed (we were married in Ukraine).

I am trying to explain to her that canceling her insurance is risking a major financial disaster for our family.  In addition, I’ve told her that canceling the policy would also bring the risk of not receiving any treatment if she were to develop any kind of serious medical condition in the future (requiring surgery or hospitalization).  In addition, I’ve told her that she would potentially forfeit the opportunity to acquire insurance in the future if she did get ill.  She understands that I must have insurance because I have a chronic condition for which I require insurance in order to afford the treatment.  She accepts my reason for keeping my insurance, but wants her insurance cancelled.  She is without any major medical problems currently, but often has minor problems, and also wants to have a baby as soon as possible. 

She says that people in Ukraine live without insurance, and she can live without it in America.  I have told her that the situation is not the same in America.  I have tried to explain to her the extremely high cost of uninsured medical expenses in the US (doctor’s office visits, prescriptions, operations, hospitalization, therapy, etc.).  She still thinks that insurance is “throwing money in the garbage.”  She says that I should simply send her back to Ukraine if she gets sick.  Of course, she is not thinking about having a car accident or getting a bad infection or something like that, in which case she couldn’t even get on an airplane (even if I did pay the $3,000 required to obtain a ticket for a quick flight). 

We are a middle-income family, and I am self-employed.  Like has happened to many people, this economy has reduced my disposable income severely as well as the value of my few investments.  However, I have worked out a budget that permits us to cover all necessary expenses (like all insurance, health, car, home, etc.), as well as some minor discretionary expenditures until my business picks up again.  I am also looking for new employment opportunities that would provide family insurance as a benefit in case my business doesn’t pick up quickly enough.  That, however, seems unlikely to yield much hope from what I have seen so far.  My wife does not work (and has never worked, and will never work.  She is not lazy, but is slightly handicapped, and never was able to acquire any kind of higher education or skills in Ukraine).

This issue has come up several times during out marriage – most  recently again when I told her that we would have to temporarily cut back (about 50% or more) on gifts to her family until our cash flow resumes.  Her response was that she, again, wanted me to cancel her health insurance (this time, so  that she could still give the same gifts to her family).  I pay about $4,000 annually for a reasonably good HMO plan for her.  Previously, each year, I also gave her family about $2,000 in gifts each year, plus up to another $1,000 to $2,000 for other expenses (usually their hospitalizations in Ukraine).  Her family has a middle lifestyle for Ukraine (her father has the #2 job in a local post office in a city of 300,000 people).  They have a car, a small summer home, newer appliances and recently remodeled most of their apartment home.  I have had a good relationship with my wife’s family for 5 years – since 2004.  My wife says that it is against Russian/Ukrainian custom to either not give gifts, or to reduce gift giving even during difficult times.  She says that a “normal” Russian/Ukrainian family will give good gifts even if they must sacrifice their own lives and money in order to do so.

I think her idea is kind of extreme, as well has her characterization of Russian/Ukrainian customs and traditions.  I understand very well that Ukraine has a tradition of “gift-giving” (as many countries do).  However, I have a hard time believing that people in Ukraine still expect to receive gifts from others during severe economic conditions and if I experience a significant loss if income.  She insists that we (actually me) continue to give these presents, even if I must cancel her insurance policy, or even if I must risk not having enough money at some point in the future to repair the car or the house or buy a new refrigerator if the current one goes out.   She says that she would be hugely embarrassed if I or we did not maintain this same level of gifts (over $3,000) annually. 

The MAIN ISSUE is the health insurance.  I think that I can still give her family up to about $1,000 annually in presents during this difficult time (assuming things remain somewhat stable), but $3,000 to $4,000 in annual gifts is not sensible for our budget right now.  In fact, I enjoy giving gifts when I can.  However, unfortunately, my wife is now starting to suggest that I am "cheap" or "greedy" because "some other men" give their wife's family $500 to $1,000 per month in support, PLUS presents.  I understand the need to give gifts in the Ukrainian culture, but I did not get married to become an ATM (bankomat) for my wife's family.  I give sensible gifts that are commensurate with my income, and even above that when I can.

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"?

Question #2:   If not, what would YOUR WIFE say to my wife about this situation after living in America for several years (and understanding the situation here) to help my wife better understand the huge need for a family to have proper health insurance in America (and could she write it in the Russian language for my wife to read)?

I would also invite the Russian/Ukrainian ladies on this board to respond to these questions. 

Also, PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THIS INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY OR THE CURRENT POLITICS OF HEALTH INSURANCE.  THANK YOU.

Thank you in advance for your ideas.

Journeyman

[Boethius]

My wife says that it is against Russian/Ukrainian custom to either not give gifts, or to reduce gift giving even during difficult times.  She says that a “normal” Russian/Ukrainian family will give good gifts even if they must sacrifice their own lives and money in order to do so.

That is not true.  It is the mindset of someone who has never had to work hard for their money.  

Tell her the result of lack of insurance is that you're sending $2000 annually to cover her family's medical expenses for substandard care.  So, her family is getting insurance, provided by you.

Ask her who is more important to her;  You or her family.

[BC]

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"?

Initially, yes.. 'real' taxes, insurance, bills etc are quite 'foreign'.  It takes time to fully understand these concepts.  Try presenting yourself as husband and 'protector'..  explain that without insurance, loosing a home, cars, credit etc are all very real possibilities for the uninsured.  Dig up some stories on the net.  You might also want to push the point that you want to be able to provide the very best care for mother and child.  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_cost_of_childbirth_in_the_US  Just say you're paying in advance over a couple of years.

[docetae]

Initially, yes.. 'real' taxes, insurance, bills etc are quite 'foreign'.  It takes time to fully understand these concepts.  Try presenting yourself as husband and 'protector'..  explain that without insurance, loosing a home, cars, credit etc are all very real possibilities for the uninsured.  Dig up some stories on the net.  You might also want to push the point that you want to be able to provide the very best care for mother and child.  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_cost_of_childbirth_in_the_US  Just say you're paying in advance over a couple of years.

Just to tell you my story. despite I live in Canada and have full coverage provided by government, if you forget to renew your card with the government, you must pay fees upfront before getting money back. Now around 3 years ago, I did not renew it by pure laziness. It was not a question of money. I was never ill, children were covered by insurance, it was only me.

I had big accident on the way to work... result.. more than three months of salary to pay upfront before getting money back.
Can she live in a house without disaster insurance ? What she will do if everything will burn ? This is the same here.

This is not about FSU mentality, my wife is ukrainian and she was the first one to support my choice to move from one job as consultant to one as permanent employee (same job, half pay). Why ? because I have now all insurances supplied, pension plan, paid holidays, 35h/week, etc.

This is not a question of money as this 4000$ in your budget is not available for something else. It is like paying mortgage. It is a life saver for your family.

[GregfromGa]

My wife used to think the same way until we had our first baby and then when we took her mother to the ER to lance a boil. She got to see the bills.One question, Does your wife work? I know about what you're going through but it's a little different now for us. We pay about $550 per month with a big deductible. If my wife didnt work with her job then it would be almost impossible to have what we have. I would certainly say we are middle income as well.

[GoodOlBoy]

She is without any major medical problems currently, but often has minor problems

Please define "minor health problems".

and also wants to have a baby as soon as possible.

 

She wants to have a baby in the USA with NO health insurance??
 

My wife does not work (and has never worked, and will never work.

And why is this? 

She is not lazy, but is slightly handicapped......

She is handicapped?

And you are going to "cancel" her Health Insurance?
 

  She says that a “normal” Russian/Ukrainian family will give good gifts even if they must sacrifice their own lives and money in order to do so.

This is nothing but pure BS!!

 

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"?

No.

On important matters like Health Insurance, Life Insurance, Financial Investments etc. etc., my wife listens to me.

Question #2:   If not, what would YOUR WIFE say to my wife about this situation after living in America for several years (and understanding the situation here) to help my wife better understand the huge need for a family to have proper health insurance in America (and could she write it in the Russian language for my wife to read)?

Journeyman, I asked my wife to read your post this morning before she left for work.

I asked Marina how would you (as a RW) explain to another RW the importance of insurance here in the GoodOl' USA?

My wife, (in her usual blunt way) said: "Rick, you can't explain anything to stupid chicken".


GOB

[Shadow]

Any insurance company lives by not paying more than they receive.
Which means that basicly pseaking, they make money from taking more cash from their clients as they have to pay in claims.
If you doubt that it works, check the office buildings of your insurance company and see if you grasp the concept.

Now with this comes a risk, as the main thing insurance companies offer is to bring down the risk of high costs, or spread in to more affordable payments.

So irst of all your wife is correct, ifyou would put the money you psend on health insurance in the bank you will in the long run be off better as paying it to an insurance company.

However, you might want to show her the projected cost for having a baby, general care and a single minor accident every year, and then let her decide if she would rather choose a smaller payment upfront or to spend the money when its needed.
If she sees the pile of bills connected to the baby, she will probably be happy to keep the insurance.

[Journeyman]

My wife used to think the same way until we had our first baby and then when we took her mother to the ER to lance a boil. She got to see the bills.One question, Does your wife work? I know about what you're going through but it's a little different now for us. We pay about $550 per month with a big deductible. If my wife didnt work with her job then it would be almost impossible to have what we have. I would certainly say we are middle income as well.

Perhaps I should have highlighted this fact that I noted in my initial post:

"My wife does not work (and has never worked, and will never work.  She is not lazy, but is slightly handicapped, and never was able to acquire any kind of higher education or skills in Ukraine)."

So, without any possibility of a second income, I have to be extra careful with the risks involved in running a single-income household.  As you have done -- moving to an employee status from a consulting status -- that would be a good idea for me also.  However, even then, I would probably need to have a second job (maybe PT independent consulting) to provide the "insurance" of a second income of some kind.  My wife understands this also.  However, her ability to deal with the future in any constructive way is very limited.  That includes managing future risks via insurance, increasing savings, not using credit, etc. 

Another of her misconceptions about life is that one must not plan for the future.  She says that this idea is from her culture, and reinforce by her mother.  However, again, I think that she extrapolates this idea too far, and misapplies it to things such as insurance, retirement planning, etc.  She says it is Ukrainian thinking to not plan anything.  She even says that it invites bad luck to plan anything.  I have heard that before about Russian culture, but even that notion has to have its limitations there.  What about the famous 5-year plans in the old Soviet system?  In America, that kind of thinking is pretty much confined to the slums or the lives of children.

I have told her many times that Ukrainian or Russian thinking will not only not work in America, but it will probably also lead one to ruin.  I have told her that a social security check in America will now only pay for one's food, utility bills and a few other necessities -- and probably a lot less by the time I retire.  She was aghast!  She replied, "But you live in America!  They must pay for everything!"  I replied, "No, we must pay for everything.  The government only pays a little to help us avoid starving in our old age."  She immediately replied that the European countries would take care of people 100% in retirement, "and American government must do this too."  I told her that I did not think that that was accurate about the European countries and their social security equivalents.  No matter, she is still not convinced that we need to put away a minimum of a million dollars for retirement.  She thinks, "you only live once, and you don't know when you will die ...... so spend it now."  She says, "If I can only sit in a chair and watch TV when I'm 65 like the babushka's in Ukraine, that is ok."  I replied, "But how will you pay the real estate taxes and homeowner's insurance?"  She said, "What is that?"  In the middle of my explanation, she ended the conversation.  As you can see, she has a lot to learn about life in a modern country. 

Suggestions?

Journeyman

[boaterguy]

Any insurance company lives by not paying more than they receive.
Which means that basicly pseaking, they make money from taking more cash from their clients as they have to pay in claims.
If you doubt that it works, check the office buildings of your insurance company and see if you grasp the concept.

Now with this comes a risk, as the main thing insurance companies offer is to bring down the risk of high costs, or spread in to more affordable payments.

So irst of all your wife is correct, ifyou would put the money you psend on health insurance in the bank you will in the long run be off better as paying it to an insurance company.

However, you might want to show her the projected cost for having a baby, general care and a single minor accident every year, and then let her decide if she would rather choose a smaller payment upfront or to spend the money when its needed.
If she sees the pile of bills connected to the baby, she will probably be happy to keep the insurance.

This is not true at all! Certainly insurance companies make money...but not off each and every person. Everyone pays into a pool so to speak. Some put more in than they take out while others take out more than they put in.

Telling them they will be better off and have more money if they save their insurance money would be quite the gamble.

[Journeyman]

Please define "minor health problems".

        Dry eyes, runny nose, insomnia, and normal woman stuff like a UTI. 

She wants to have a baby in the USA with NO health insurance??

        I bought this particular policy for her because it had excellent pre-natal coverage, and everything for continued coverage for her and a baby.  Again, she is thinking only about the immediate present, and cannot quickly connect the dots.
  

And why is this? 
 
      She becomes disoriented and nervous very easily.

She is handicapped?

       Without going into detail, the answer above is a symptom.

And you are going to "cancel" her Health Insurance?

     No, I am not.  SHE wants me to cancel her insurance because of the monthly costs.
  

This is nothing but pure BS!!

  

No.

On important matters like Health Insurance, Life Insurance, Financial Investments etc. etc., my wife listens to me.


Journeyman, I asked my wife to read your post this morning before she left for work.

I asked Marina how would you (as a RW) explain to another RW the importance of insurance here in the GoodOl' USA?

My wife, (in her usual blunt way) said: "Rick, you can't explain anything to stupid chicken".


      Please have your wife type THAT up in Russian.  

[boaterguy]

Journeyman, I hesitate to reply here. You have a hard row to plow ahead of yourself.

I don't know any polite way to say this. From what you are saying it seems to me your wife would put you out on the street so that she would be able to support her family. I fear for your marriage. You failed to educate your wife on the financial responsibilities before you married her. Now that you have spoiled her during good times the educational process is going to be quite painful.

I don't think there is anything anyone can tell your wife that will change her opinion. The only way IMO your wife will learn is via the school of hard knocks. If she will not learn this then I'm afraid she will seek another solution....someone who can spend the money she wishes to spend.

[GoodOlBoy]

So irst of all your wife is correct, ifyou would put the money you psend on health insurance in the bank you will in the long run be off better as paying it to an insurance company.

Telling them they will be better off and have more money if they save their insurance money would be quite the gamble.

I agree Boaterguy.

If you don't live here in the GoodOl' USA, you shouldn't be giving out this kind of advice.

It's VERY dangerous advice.


GOB

[Misha]

I have had a good relationship with my wife’s family for 5 years – since 2004.

I really hope so as you have clearly been the family's cash cow  :evil:

My wife says that it is against Russian/Ukrainian custom to either not give gifts, or to reduce gift giving even during difficult times.

No, but it seems that your wife clearly invents culture when needed to make sure that you pay  

She says that a “normal” Russian/Ukrainian family will give good gifts even if they must sacrifice their own lives and money in order to do so.

So, if you go bankrupt because of unexpected medical bills, what kinds of help will your Ukrainian family be giving you? Will they be sacrificing their lives to help you?

She says that she would be hugely embarrassed if I or we did not maintain this same level of gifts (over $3,000) annually.

Embarrassment never killed anybody.

However, unfortunately, my wife is now starting to suggest that I am "cheap" or "greedy" because "some other men" give their wife's family $500 to $1,000 per month in support, PLUS presents.

Well, I would likely be telling my wife that she should have married those other men and that if the other men jumped off a proverbial bridge I would not follow them either  :evil:

I understand the need to give gifts in the Ukrainian culture, but I did not get married to become an ATM (bankomat) for my wife's family.  

That is what you have become. My wife gives the usual gifts: photos, clothes, souvenirs, etc... Maybe spends on average a couple hundred dollars per year. We do not send cash.

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"?

No. She understands why I pay car insurance for example or home insurance, though she hates the concept of a deductible.

[GQBlues]

Question #1:   Would your wife think and act similarly as my wife regarding insurance -- that is, that I am simply "throwing money in the garbage"?

My answer to that question is in line with GOB's. In these matters, my wife leave these types of decisions for me to make. For now at least.

I pay about $4,000 annually for a reasonably good HMO plan for her.

This sounds a little high for HMO. I went and cruised this site to get an estimate for basic coverage with a California zip code and it came back with a monthly cost for PPO of $75.00/mo - $30.00 copay and an annual deductible of $2,500.00. If your wife smokes, etc...this will of course affect your premiums. Maybe this is another angle you can look into for a compromise. I was paying less than the $4,000.00 you're paying for your wife's HMO coverage and it's a PPO and the annual deductible is much lower than $2,500.00. I believe I was paying $220.00/mo. (I don't anymore since she now has a job and her employer is providing for this coverage). But maybe you already went through this exercise but I just thought to offer it as the HMO premium you posted seem pretty high to me.

I'm dying to ask you what annual gifts you're sending her folks that's costing you $250.00/mo annually, but I'm not going to.  

[Journeyman]

Any insurance company lives by not paying more than they receive.
Which means that basicly pseaking, they make money from taking more cash from their clients as they have to pay in claims.
If you doubt that it works, check the office buildings of your insurance company and see if you grasp the concept.

Now with this comes a risk, as the main thing insurance companies offer is to bring down the risk of high costs, or spread in to more affordable payments.

So first of all your wife is correct, if you would put the money you send on health insurance in the bank you will in the long run be off better as paying it to an insurance company.
However, you might want to show her the projected cost for having a baby, general care and a single minor accident every year, and then let her decide if she would rather choose a smaller payment upfront or to spend the money when its needed.
If she sees the pile of bills connected to the baby, she will probably be happy to keep the insurance.

Can't agree with that.   Everybody needs at least catastrophic coverage at a minimum.  Even rich people buy catastrophic coverage as it is a "good deal" for them.  



Everybody listen ............. Even if my wife insisted and demanded that I cancel her policy, I would not do so.  I would find a way to keep her covered -- even if I had to lie to her for her own good until she begins to think correctly on this.



Right now, I think that my wife needs a STRONG LECTURE by a couple of Russian/Ukrainian women who have lived in the US for a few years.  My wife wife relies on authority figures to know what to do.  That is why I was asking for any possible contributions directly from Russian women on this matter -- written in the Russian language.  That would constitute a good start, and then I would figure out the next step.

Unfortunately, my wife also retains the unfortunately all-too-common attitude that women in the FSU have toward their husbands -- that their husband's words can rarely be trusted.  She agrees that she must trust me on various matters, but cannot yet (at this early stage in her transition) understand sufficiently the features and standard practices of a modern society to the extent necessary for anything to make sense.  If it doesn't make sense, she cannot extend trust.  It is a little bit like talking to a 8 year-old right now about not putting a fork into an electrical outlet.  She can't quite understand the big picture yet.  That is why she needs "direction" from somebody she can simply listen to without having to doubt them too much.  Again, a strong lecture from an Russian/Ukrainian woman living in the US for a couple of years would be ideal.

Journeyman

[Misha]

Telling them they will be better off and have more money if they save their insurance money would be quite the gamble.

I agree, because the insurance company won't go bankrupt if your house burns down tomorrow or you have a heart attack today. Sure, if you are lucky, you may have enough time to save up enough money to cover the costs of an unfortunate event, but there is as much chance of that unfortunate accident happening today as on any given day fifty years in the future.

[SMS60]

Journeyman

Suggestions???

I think you have more problems than the health insurance. You probally already know this. The insurance issue is the result from the bigger problems.

How do you change her "mind set"? I dont know. I would not want to be in your position.

You need to do whatever it takes to keep you from financial ruin. You cant allow her way of thinking to destroy your marriage and way of life.

A start might be to look at some insurance which covers major accidents or illnesses only. It will be less money than the gold plans. Maybe put yourself on this type of plan to free up some money. See how she reacts.

What bothers me is the attitude of there is not the possibility of her working. She is in the land of opprotunity. You know this. She could find a small job if she put her mind to it.

How do you convince her? Again I dont know. Maybe if she sees you wont budge on some of this she will change her attitude. Take a firm stand. You have no choice. Make it known you will do whatever it takes to keep the family finacially secure. Which means some types of insurance for certain items including health.

[Journeyman]

My answer to that question is in line with GOB's. In these matters, my wife leave these types of decisions for me to make. For now at least.

This sounds a little high for HMO. I went and cruised this site to get an estimate for basic coverage with a California zip code and it came back with a monthly cost for PPO of $75.00/mo - $30.00 copay and an annual deductible of $2,500.00. If your wife smokes, etc...this will of course affect your premiums. Maybe this is another angle you can look into for a compromise. I was paying less than the $4,000.00 you're paying for your wife's HMO coverage and it's a PPO and the annual deductible is much lower than $2,500.00. I believe I was paying $220.00/mo. But maybe you already went through this exercise but I just thought to offer it as the HMO premium you posted seem pretty high to me.

I'm dying to ask you what annual gifts you're sending her folks that's costing you $250.00/mo annually, but I'm not going to.  

I appreciate the idea about a lower premium.  Let  me explain my logic on getting her THIS particular plan intially.  I theorized that until my wife was thoroughly "checked out" by some reasonably competent American doctors through some initial exams, tests and blood work, it would probaby be to my/our financial advantage to accept a more expensive policy with VERY good coverage -- just in case she needed that coverage and could slip under whatever limitations there were regarding disclosures and pre-existing conditions.  I think my wife was telling me the truth about her medical health -- to the extent that she knew it from her previous limited visits to the doctors in Ukraine.  Therefore, my initial purchase of a more expensive but expansive policy was for some additional protection for our finances.  I figured that I could change it later if things looked OK.  The complicating factor is, however, coverage for a new baby.  I will be looking into that further when I determine that her health status is likely to be reasonably stable.

Your second question is probably a good topic for a new thread:

      Couples:  How much do you spend on gifts each year for your FSU vs. other in-laws?

[Daveman]

I really hope so as you have clearly been the family's cash cow  :evil:

No, but it seems that your wife clearly invents culture when needed to make sure that you pay  

So, if you go bankrupt because of unexpected medical bills, what kinds of help will your Ukrainian family be giving you? Will they be sacrificing their lives to help you?

Embarrassment never killed anybody.

Well, I would likely be telling my wife that she should have married those other men and that if the other men jumped off a proverbial bridge I would not follow them either  :evil:

That is what you have become. My wife gives the usual gifts: photos, clothes, souvenirs, etc... Maybe spends on average a couple hundred dollars per year. We do not send cash.

No. She understands why I pay car insurance for example or home insurance, though she hates the concept of a deductible.

I'm not married to an RW, sooooo, I withhold any opinions I have... but, let's just say that THIS above post makes quite good sense to me.  And especially so since her whole argument is NOT a rant against the exorbitant cost of everything medical related here, but rather about money to her family who by the description, either don't need it, OR have raised their lifestyles substantially because of it...  

[Shadow]

I agree Boaterguy.

If you don't live here in the GoodOl' USA, you shouldn't be giving out this kind of advice.

It's VERY dangerous advice.


GOB

If you would have read my posts correctly you would have found that I do NOT advise Journeyman or his wife to give up their health insurance.

All I point out is that as insurance companies make profit there is a chance that if you do not send the money to the insurance company but save it yu might be better off in the long run. Having said that, this goes for ANY insurance that is not sponsored by governtment funds.
But only the most prudent people will have the possibility to really save the insurance money for the purpose they set it aside for, meang that 99% of people will be better off buying the insurance. Not financially but in case of emergency.

[GoodOlBoy]

..... though she hates the concept of a deductible.

Oh dear G*d, don't even get my RW started about deductibles or CO-PAYS! 

The first time we went to my/our doctor's office there was a $15. co-pay due (before even seeing the doctor).

I reached into my billfold and handed the receptionist a $10 and $5 bill.

Marina immediately launched into her full "interrogation" attack mode, with the receptionist.  :evil:

"What is this??"...."Why do we pay this money??"....."We already pay insurance??"...

The receptionist kept looking at me for "help".

I just shook my head and walked over and sat down in one of the waiting room chairs until the dust settled.   

After it was all over, I actually felt sorry for the receptionist. 


GOB

[Misha]

I'm dying to ask you what annual gifts you're sending her folks that's costing you $250.00/mo annually, but I'm not going to.  

Small souvenirs, some practical household goods, photos, etc... In other words, my wife doesn't send anything extravagant. What can I say, my wife is both reasonable and frugal. Let me guess, you must send large gifts to your wife's family  :evil:

[BC]

Right now, I think that my wife needs a STRONG LECTURE by a couple of Russian/Ukrainian women who have lived in the US for a few years.  My wife wife relies on authority figures to know what to do.  That is why I was asking for any possible contributions directly from Russian women on this matter -- written in the Russian language.  That would constitute a good start, and then I would figure out the next step.

Kinda unfair to ask others to intervene in your marriage..

You're doing the right thing by gathering information.. but putting it to good use is strictly your business.

[Journeyman]

So, if you go bankrupt because of unexpected medical bills, what kinds of help will your Ukrainian family be giving you? Will they be sacrificing their lives to help you?

Misha,

I might tend to agree with many things you mentioned, but would have to take exception to a few others.  One story comes to mind.

In March of 2007, I flew to Ukraine for my wedding with my wife in her home town.  It was all arranged.  However, the individual in the local city government who had control over issuing marriage licenses caught wind of the fact that I was only in town for a few days.  The official then decided our paperwork was not acceptable.  My wife's father then stepped in, and tried to offer her a bribe.  She refused, and said that she wanted not only a bribe, but also to be "pre-exonorated" by a higher official of taking any bribes (in keeping with the theme of this thread -- she wanted a form of "insurance" against a jail sentence).  So, my wife's father figured out what he had to do.  He made a couple of calls to his buddies who then put in him touch with a very senior official at the "oblast" level.  That oblast level official then guaranteed the local official's "innocence".  That was conveyed to the local official and the wedding was set for the next morning.  However, my wife's father didn't tell me that he also had to come up with $800 to bribe everybody involved in Ukraine.  I later asked my wife how he was able to secure the local permission, and then she told me that her father made the arrangements and paid the bribe.  He father never said a word about the money.  I later told my wife that I would reimburse her father, but she said that he would not take the money.  Thereafter, I arranged to get it to him through my wife's mother, who happily took the money and got it to the father in a "face-saving" way.   He didn't have to refuse taking it from me.  Everybody was happy (although I was out another $800).   When needed, my in-laws HAVE stepped up with cash to make important things possible.  In return, when both my wife's parents needed operations, I supplied most of the money as I knew that they didn't have much extra sitting around at the time.

My wife's family has not been asking for money.  My WIFE asks for the money to buy presents for them.  I do not have any evidence of a "conspiracy" between them.  This is only about my wife's propensities and orientation toward such things -- not my in-laws.

Journeyman

[groovlstk]

Kinda unfair to ask others to intervene in your marriage..

You're doing the right thing by gathering information.. but putting it to good use is strictly your business.

I'd agree w/this - you can't outsource trust. She has to buy into your role as knowing what's best for your family and it's your job to earn this trust.

FWIW, new guys should take note: there is no such thing as too much discussion of finances and how things work over here vs. over there before she steps on a plane.