Hello from Handycam :)

[Handycam72]

Hello to all on this site.

I came across this site by chance, and it looks a good forum. There are others where I get the impression they think everything is a scam. It seems there is good discussions on here.

A little about me. I'm 36, from the UK. I work in the Aviation Industry. I have been on a couple of international dating sites for a couple of years, come across lots of requests for money (I never sent any). It was somthing I looked at out of curiousity more than anything. That is until I got chatting to one girl in Odessa and my interest changed to the point I got on a plane (well 2 planes) and went to Odessa. I must admit I loved the city, especially the centre, I just hope they keep up the restoration work. It looks like they started at the centre and are working out. I also found the people very friendly and helpful.

Now back to the girl I met, we saw each other everyday, spent about 8 hours a day with each other. Had a translater with us for 4 days, her friend helped the other days. We went all over the place together, mainly by Taxi. We even went to the fortress at Belgorod-Dnestrovsky and some wine factory, schaba (I probably spelt that wrong) . I will be seeing her again very soon, she wants me to meet her family on my next visit. She came to see me off at the airport, and while I was there at the airport ,a woman told me that is a very good sign when the girl comes to the airport with you.

So I hope that being on this site I will find people who can give advice on this East-West relationship/dating, aswell as help those who are new to all this

[Shadow]

Welcome Handycam.

It seems that you have managed to avoid the main pitfalls and met a good woman aalready, whcih means you probably need little advice.

So far the good signs are that she spent time with you, asked a friend to help out after the interpreter, and wants you to meet her family the nest time.

As you are from the UK and Odessa is not that hard to get to, don't make her wait long. As you have seen the scenery, make the next trip about meeting people important in her life and see how she treats them, and how they treat her.

Good luck, and just read around.

[RussianWind]

I came across this site by chance, and it looks a good forum. 

Yes, I had a cultiral shock too

 

Anti-offtop: try to use more of body/gesticular language, so she will understand you  better, learn English faster and feel your interraction more personal. It is amasing how many things you can show with simple gestures... and try to remove the translator unit between you as soon as it possible.

[tfcrew]

author=Handycam72   I work in the Aviation Industry.  
 

That must come in handy when you travel.
My wife...from Odessa.
Good luck

Karl

[Handycam72]

Anti-offtop: try to use more of body/gesticular language, so she will understand you  better, learn English faster and feel your interraction more personal. It is amasing how many things you can show with simple gestures... and try to remove the translator unit between you as soon as it possible.

I will take that on board for my next visit, cheers

I must admit the interpreters were alittle frustrating, it was like having someone watching over us all the time. I noticed a big change in her when her friend helped us and there were no interpreters, she was alot more relaxed. When we had time alone, her friend insisted we should have time alone though my girl was worried about how we would communicate, her friend she would leave us for an hour, and my girl was alot more affectionate and relaxed:) In fact her friend took me to one side and told me that I was not to mention that we had been together on the days we had no interpreters, everything is meant to go through the agency and we were not to be together unless the agency knows about it. The subject of English lessons was brought up on one of these days, her friend told me you need to get the relationship away from the agency or they bleed you dry of money. Told me her English instructor gave cheap rates. I didn't really acknowledge what she said about the rates, I just said I would think about it, and the subject was never brought up again.


So now I look forward to my next visit and see what develops. Of course reading as much about other peoples experiences as I go Then working it all out in my head, and then go on that long tough journey known as long distance relationships.

[LAman]

Hey handycam,

 Good luck on your odessa girl, I too loved the city, being able to get around mostly on foot.
 If you feel good about it, I think you should be the one to suggest about english lessons for girl.
 A full day trip to Uman is a must next time, Sofia Park is impressive.
 If you need suggestions on best restaurants I have tried many.

[Shadow]

Handycam, I hope that you have got her personal data and are not writing, calling or sending her anything through the agency at this time.
If you are, beware.

[BrightDawn]

You definitely need to get the agency out of the loop.

[Gator]

Welcome Handyman!!!!

Your woman sounds like a sweetie!

The language barrier is immense.  English lessons are a must, and you should pay.

Her willingness and progress with learning English is a reliable measure of her sincerity.  Unless she is very intelligent and has a good ear, her progress will be slow.  So be patient.  Nevertheless, the progress should be discernible.

Do agencies attempt such heavy handed control of their women?  In my 5 years of dating RW I worked with local agencies for only one week (Cindy in Dnepropetrovsk).  Cindy arranged meetings and offerred an interpreter if you asked for one, yet otherwise got out of the loop and did not stick their nose into anything once the introduction was made.   This Odessa agency sounds too controlling.

Reading between the lines I didn't see any time for intimacy in the week that you spent there.  Be a gentleman, but don't be shy (i. e., take the lead).  And please don't respond to my comment.  Such is private, one way or the other.

[JR]

use more of body/gesticular language

I'm gonna keep my mouth shut....but oh the thoughts


Welcome my fellow aviation professional! Best of everything to you and your new lady!

[Handycam72]

It looks like my happiness was short lived

I have discovered that she is a Pro-Dater and I was not the only guy she met. After comparing what happened on my visit, it was exactly the same things, same places we went too and including the 50USD she asked for everyday for the taxi home. Turns out she has a boyfriend in Odessa aswell

Of course now looking back over my time with her all the red flags were there to be seen and in the correspondence. Her reaction when I said I would come back for her birthday in November was not what you call full of happiness and excitement.

I will put this down to experience. I did meet some great people while I was there and I have discovered that not all Odessa ladies will deceive you. I should of listened to a couple of girls I met on the first day when I told them why I was in Odessa. Their reaction "If you have met her through an agency, then she will not be honest, the agencies in Odessa hire girls, they are paid employees if you like. If you want to meet Odessa girl, you made the first correct step by coming here and chatting to people like you do at home, it is no different."

So a valuable lesson has been learnt

Next time I will be better prepared

[Taz]

Look on the bright side, it wasn't too expensive of a lesson. You've learned a lot it sounds like as well. There are lots of other options to meet women besides using agencies as well. There are a lot of personal websites where you can meet RW online. Of course you still need to be careful about scammers and pro-daters but typically you won't be paying a lot of agency fees for the "privilege". 

In general don't beat yourself up too much over not seeing all the red flags. As the old adage goes "hindsight is 20-20".

[LAman]

  I will put this down to experience. I did meet some great people while I was there and I have discovered that not all Odessa ladies will deceive you. I should of listened to a couple of girls I met on the first day when I told them why I was in Odessa. Their reaction "If you have met her through an agency, then she will not be honest, the agencies in Odessa hire girls, they are paid employees if you like. If you want to meet Odessa girl, you made the first correct step by coming here and chatting to people like you do at home, it is no different."
 

 Wish I had known you would be in Odessa. My friends own a small restaurant near Alexandrovsky/Bunina. Great place for girl watching and having an inexpensive meal. The bus stop is outside the doors and ohhhhh, the girls that get off there all styled up in big/small packages, slender bodies and long legs..... Where was I.......
sorry the mind goes at times.........
Problem with meeting girls while there( no dating sites) is chances are english is poor and less likely to even consider leaving country....the positives, more likely to be appreciative for hard work. I get introduced to many girls at restaurant and they tell me about the 12-14 hours work days. What is funny is one time I was at a table talking with a friend, one waitress that really gave me excellent service I gave a $10 tip and my friend was shocked, I asked him what is wrong......he informed me that it is almost what she has earned as pay for the whole day!!!!

[Shadow]

Guess you found this place a bit too late. for $50 the taxi will drive you around all day. 

[Handycam72]

Guess you found this place a bit too late. for $50 the taxi will drive you around all day. 

The $50 was just for her, in total I spent $1100 on taxis in 5 days (including the $50 I gave her everyday) plus another $600 on interpreters. The most expensive day was the $360 on a taxi to take us to the fortress at Bilhorod-Dnistrovsky and a wine tour, taxi was with us for 8 hours and then $120 for interpreter. This was on the last day with her.

I have challenged her about all this, she thinks I am being small minded and petty. Thinks I am stupid to be concerned with what money I spent while I was with her. She said she wanted me to see Odessa, see the sites.

When I told her she was a Pro-dater her response was:

"if I had a business in the agency with you, I would not be sitting at home with his girlfriend would not eat pizza and watched a film ...

and probably would constantly extorting money .... Shopping restaurants, etc. ...

I tried to make your trip to Odessa, unforgettable ... Tours Wine Museum fortress catacombs ... worried about whether all your suits, etc. ...

and eventually you turned sour ... began to count every penny that where as ...

ta I do not know why a taxi for you so much ... I did not take a penny ... Money is the driver for gasoline and time spent with us ...
why do you call me a crook? You gave me the money?
You gave me gifts?
I have something you require?"

Now before I arrived she said she did not want me to spend too much money so I guess $1700 in 5 days is not much to spend on Taxis and interpreters in Ukraine. In my 6 days there I spent close to $3000

At the time I guess I was thinking too much with my heart and not my head, that mistake will never happen again.

[RussianWind]

Guess you found this place a bit too late. for $50 the taxi will drive you around all day. 

I agree. She uses London prices in Odessa. $5 would be enough I think, bearing in mind size of the city and the situation in Ukraine.

[Mila]

Hi Handycam! Sorry to hear that A girl was a pro-dater and i bet very beautiful and of course, it was difficult for you to see that she was just making money from you. And I guess a girl who was interpering for you worked for an agency as well and she knew what was going on. Unfortunatelly, but it happened quite often with my clients and all you can do is to learn and to be cautious in future. Hope, it will never happen to you again. So, when you guys meet our women, you have to think with your mind, always and don't be naive, please

[Taz]

A taxi could be $50 though depending on how far out of town she lived. Unlikely but possible. I know from personal experience when I had to take a taxi from Dnepro's airport to a town outside of Dnepropetrovsk. I was quoted $100 by the taxi company. It was going to be $60 to get there (for the 3 of us) and they wanted another $40 to cover the taxi drivers trip back even though he was going to be empty.

I said just take us to the train station instead. Driver said he'd do it for $80. I said forget it, max I'd pay is $40. No deal so we went to the train station instead. It still cost me about $15 from the Dnepro airport to the train station. Keep in mind that some taxis also jack the fares up late at night. This was an actual dispatched taxi which tends to be cheaper than a lot of the ones that really try to gouge you.

Based on this, $50 is possible but unlikely. Maybe if she lived 40-50 km out of town and it was late at night, it might be possible. Taxi prices have definitely gone up the last year or so.

Did the interpreter provide any guidance on what the going rate was? Of course she could have been complicit in any scheme. For the amount of money you dropped in that week, you could have gone on a nice vacation to Egypt or Turkey at a 5 star hotel with that women and still had some change left over if you flew out of Ukraine. I don't think you would have need the interpreter has much then... 

[Shadow]

Just a question you might want to answer.
Was the taxi an official one (with a taxi sign) or a standard car ?
And was the driver the same, or were they different ?
The price for a taxi all day could be ok if the driver was not her boyfriend.

As for her answer, do not expect any woman to tell 'yes I took money from you', instead they will put the blame on your greediness.

[RussianWind]

A taxi could be $50 though depending on how far out of town she lived.

It normally depends on how purely you speak Russian. If not - prepare to be overcharged 5-10 times more.

[Gator]

Hi Handycam,

You did not disclose all the facts in your first post.  Now I gather this is what happened:

1.   Heavy handed control by agency over use of interpreter.
2.   Agency translator with you half the time at $15/hr
3.   Your date’s friend served as translator for the other half (I assume you paid her something too)
4.   Expensive taxi fares arranged by your date.
5.   No intimacy (inferred because there was no time).
6.   Spent $500 per day on apartment, food, taxi, misc. (this is too much given that you ate pizza).  Did you stay at agency apartment?  What was the rate?

These follow exactly the standard formula for a pro dater, yet is not complete.  What’s missing? 

1.  Shopping.  A pro dater would have pulled you into shops every day.  A typical scam is to buy something expensive (e. g., coat), and when you leave the pro dater returns the gift to the shop and splits the price 50-50 with the shop owner.

2.   Good restaurants – instead you ate pizza.

3.   English lessons after you return to the UK (a pro dater will take your money for lessons but will not take the lesson).

BTW, how do you know that she has a boyfriend in Odessa (that would explain the lack of intimacy)?  How do you know she met other men?  When?

Can you please provide more information.  She sounds like a pro dater, walks like a pro dater.....yet I am not 100% sure (just 90% now).

[Handycam72]

Hi all

I will answer each of your comments Gator to give you the full picture.

1.   Heavy handed control by agency over use of interpreter.
Yes it was an agency interpreter arranged by her (no fees were discussed until the end of the first day even though I asked about them at the beginning of the first day) Also at the end of the first day my date said she had to visit her very ill grandmother to give her medicine (alarm bells) I was expecting a request for money so I was very reluctant, in fact it became a Lengthy discussion, I gave in the end to see if a request would come, it never did.
      
2.   Agency translator with you half the time at $15/hr
Agency translator with us for 3 of the 5 days together. Although I suspect the one that was with us for the trip to the fortress was with the agency. I did ask if she was with the agency, she replied she was the wife of the taxi drivers best friend, she is a tour guide not an interpreter.

3.   Your date’s friend served as translator for the other half (I assume you paid her something too)
She served as a translator for one day. At the time I thought I did not pay her. But now I remember the night before she asked for $50 for taxi home. On the day she was translating we were only together for 5 hours.

4.   Expensive taxi fares arranged by your date.
Yes, it was the same Taxi company everyday all arranged by my date. Had the same driver first 2 days and then another for the last 3 days. Now the interesting thing is at the end of 2nd day as I got out the Taxi I thought I heard something being said to me so I quickly turned back and asked what they said, I must of been a little blunt when I said it as they looked very startled, next day new driver arrives, who I can describe as big and someone you would not argue with, this guy would never look me in the eye while talking to him.
  
5.   No intimacy (inferred because there was no time).
There was none when in the company of others. There was never any kissing on the lips, just the cheek was all I got.

6.   Spent $500 per day on apartment, food, taxi, misc. (this is too much given that you ate pizza).  Did you stay at agency apartment?  What was the rate?
The apartment was arranged independent of the agency and my date, I went through a website odessabestapartments.com, it was $140 a night next the Opera House and it was very big (I have not included the apartment rate in the $3000 I spent while there, as this was a cost I would of had to meet had I met her or not) She did ask if I wanted her to arrange my apartment, I refused. We ate Pizza on 1 night, 2 nights we had Sushi from a take away, it was delivered to the apartment.


Now your questions
1.  Shopping.  A pro dater would have pulled you into shops every day.  A typical scam is to buy something expensive (e. g., coat), and when you leave the pro dater returns the gift to the shop and splits the price 50-50 with the shop owner.
I made it clear on the first day I was aware of the shopping scam, although when I said I needed to go shopping for food they were quick to help me. The only thing that got me was my date going off to put money on her phone ($50) then asking me to pay for it, I claimed I needed money, there was an area where you could get cash from your card, they claimed the internet was down so couldn't do it, so had to pay cash, while all eyes were on me

2.   Good restaurants – instead you ate pizza.
Not quite, pizza was only eaten on one day. The first day was an expensive restaurant about 40 minutes out of Odessa, all I can remember it looked like a castle surrounded by lots of big executive houses. At the time I was there I did notice the reaction of the waitress to my date, if looks could kill my date would of been dead there and then. This waitress kept forgetting to bring my drinks to the table and when I tried to go get them the interpreter would go. Again when leaving the restaurant I made a joke about pro-daters taking guys to expensive restaurants and I hoped that they weren't pro-daters. From day 1 she was very very keen for me to hire a yacht at the Marina for the day, this subject was brought up everyday, I was even taken there on day 2 to have a look at the yachts. I again made a joke asking if she was on commission for hiring out yachts.

3.   English lessons after you return to the UK (a pro dater will take your money for lessons but will not take the lesson).
The subject of English lessons was brought up, and then asking if I would send money to pay for them. I just said I would think about it.

BTW, how do you know that she has a boyfriend in Odessa (that would explain the lack of intimacy)?  How do you know she met other men?  When?
Well I was a little suspicious while I was there because she was getting phone calls, most of time she would just say something then hang up but there was one call she would talk for longer, I asked who it was she would say it was her girlfriend or mother, I kept trying to see who it was on the screen after she finished the call I could only catch a glimpse, it was not until the last day when this name name came up on the screen nd I could here the voice on the other end, it was no female voice, the name looked like Mark but spelt morc (think of the r as the cryillic reverse R) Also I found her on Vkontake with interesting photos with 1 guy, the kind of photos that you would imagine a couple to have. I questioned them, it was her bandmate, she never mentioned in 12 months she was in a band. As for meeting other men, well I set up a fake profile on facebook to see if anyone would write thinking it was her, I got 5 letters, 3 of which said they had met her in early august and end of July with proof of photos, they had exactly the same story. The other 2 were guys who had been writing to her for along time, sent her gifts, video/chat. Now that explains why she was always online at vkontakte at 2 -3 in the morning (Ukraine time) chatting to guys in USA

Answer your comment Taz
$50 is possible but unlikely. Maybe if she lived 40-50 km out of town and it was late at night, it might be possible. Taxi prices have definitely gone up the last year or so.

The address I have she lives very close to the airport, although when challenged claims its under renovation and now lives in Sanzhiika about 30km away. The $50 was paid weather she went home at 9pm or 6pm or even like when she came to the airport at 1pm

[Sculpto]

Handycam,

Sorry you went through this.  If you don't mind would you share with us the name of the agency and the site you used to find the lady?  I have a pretty good feeling I know the answer, but, I would love to know for sure.

$50 taxi will get you round trip to Nikolaev, at night.  You paid for the taxi AND the bottle of champagne she bought on her way to her boyfriend.  Sorry!!!

[Handycam72]

Handycam,

Sorry you went through this.  If you don't mind would you share with us the name of the agency and the site you used to find the lady?  I have a pretty good feeling I know the answer, but, I would love to know for sure.

$50 taxi will get you round trip to Nikolaev, at night.  You paid for the taxi AND the bottle of champagne she bought on her way to her boyfriend.  Sorry!!!

The site where we first got talking was www.anastasiadate.com, ID:1112734 also on www.natashaclub.com id: tenderisme I have also found her on a-pretty.com id:46305

On the bottom of every letter on anastasiadate.com it had
"Translated by Anna Dudnik (Agency ID: 1004745)"  I have no idea who this agency is.

I did complain to the sites, but I got the feeling unless you have a signed in front of witness, written confession they are not interested.

I forgot to add the phone incident on the 3rd day. I get a phone call from the interpreter saying she has had huge bust up with her father, claims her younger brother dropped her new expensive phone her dad had brought her in water and it is now broken. Her dad will not let her leave the house. Anyway she arrives later and as soon as I open the door grabs hold of me and starts "crying" I then get told that her dad is very angry, she needs a new phone, if she has a phone we can carry on seeing each other, she is still "crying" at this point. Alarm bells, sirens are going off in my head at this point. She would never let me look at her face while she was "crying", of course when she wiped her eyes with the back of her hand, there was make up on her hand but no tears, strange for someone who had been crying for half an hour. She went to the bathroom to "look beautiful for me" came back, now normally when someone is crying for a good 30 minutes their eyes are very red, not hers. I refused to buy a phone, told her I had not come to Odessa to buy phones. Anyway later on that she told me I was very rude to her earlier on, said she did not want material things from me, just wanted my support. I think deep down at this point I was beginning to see I was being scammed, but just went into the denial stage. I later looked in her bag and found she had about 4 different phones in it, I asked who the phones belonged too, her answer "friends"

[Sculpto]

I found your thread on romance scam.