All agencies in Ukraine write letters for girls.

[Alex from Ukraine]

This is my statement and it is 100% correct. All agencies in Ukraine write letters for girls. You can go to any agency and sit there all day, you will never see pretty girls coming with letters to give them to interpreters.

Guys, you have a power to stop this crap. Demand what you pay for. You pay for your letters being translated, so ask for the copy of your letters translated into Russian with a date and signature of the interpreter.

You pay for girls letters being translated from Russian into English. Demand the copy of HANDWRITTEN letter in Russian with a date and a signature of a girl.

This 2 simple things will kill the correspondence scam. Agencies will simply fail to maintain to fake huge amount of correspondence if they will have to hand write every single letter. The situation now is that all letters are generated by interpreters at the agencies and girls never write a single line, nothing is being translated and if you come to see the girl, only at this point the girl will come to the agency to read your letters and to read what agency was writing to you from her.

If all agencies are real and girls really write letters, it must be no problem just to make a copy of a handwritten letter that a girl brings to an agency to translate, and they can send it to you same way as they send photos. It takes only one click.

I am going to raise this topic on every single forum in the Internet and I ask you to support my idea.

[BrightDawn]

I'm just wondering how many agencies in the Ukraine did you personally go sit at all day and monitor?

If they are writing letters for the girls then they can also produce fake handwritten letters.

The best thing I think is to not use agencies in the first place.

[Alex from Ukraine]

I live in Lugansk and I've been to agencies to other cities and have friends who work for agencies, so I know what I am talking about.

One interpreter can generate 15-25 e-mails per day, but no way they will be able to fake 15-25 hand written letters that's my point, that's just to hard to do everyday

Yes, better use no agency at all in a first place, you are right about that.

[I/O]

Alex: All you say maybe correct, you may even present a solution but honestly, if you think you will correct all the wrongs of every agency in a single lifetime you are as naive as the clowns who keep pumping money into their bank accounts.

[RussianWind]

Maybe it's better to try dating someone who speaks English? 

Honesly I think those girls don't mind if agencies write letters for them. Why to spend time 

[Shadow]

Alex, can you give me a list of all agencies in Ukraine ?
After all you seem to have confirmed that they all write letters, which means you must have their names and adresses.

As for handwritten letters, perhaps you have heard of something like a computer and e-mail. Its very handy, as its much easier to read a types letter as a handwritten one.
And guess what ? Women do not even have to mail or bring it to an agency.

Do not get me wrong, I do believe that there are many agencies who are using whatever methods they can to get cash.

Now exactly what is your point in telling how bad agencies are ? Would you happen t be thinking of creating an "honest' alternative ?

[Alex from Ukraine]

The best alternative is to avoid using agencies at all but my point is - if you use one, demand the confirmation of the job that you paid for, that's simple. To change something in the world it only takes number of people who follow the idea... and I am pretty sure I will change something.. as I have seen myself and know people who started the correspondence scam as a business model in Lugansk and as a result 1st anti-scam website was created in 2002 if my memory is still good. So I know how it spread around Ukraine and know what help to reduce it.

[Shadow]

The best alternative is to avoid using agencies at all but my point is - if you use one, demand the confirmation of the job that you paid for, that's simple. To change something in the world it only takes number of people who follow the idea... and I am pretty sure I will change something.. as I have seen myself and know people who started the correspondence scam as a business model in Lugansk and as a result 1st anti-scam website was created in 2002 if my memory is still good. So I know how it spread around Ukraine and know what help to reduce it.

First of all it seems you evade my questions.
Secondly, if you know how well scams are operated in Ukraine, you will know that creating an official looking stamp on a letter is not at all a problem.
Using common sense, and eliminating the agencies as soon as possible is a much better way as requiring them to forge stamps and pay more.

[groovlstk]

Guys, you have a power to stop this crap. Demand what you pay for. You pay for your letters being translated, so ask for the copy of your letters translated into Russian with a date and signature of the interpreter.

No one is forcing men to use agencies, rather than demanding what you pay for why not just vote with your wallet and walk away?

One thing I have noticed over the years is that western men are keen on trying to condition business owners in the FSU by making it very clear that "honest" behavior will be rewarded and dishonest behavior punished, as if these business owners are children and must be taught that honestly will bring them more prosperity. IMHO, this rarely works for two reasons: first, there's little in the way of long-term business planning, most people are obsessed with making a quick buck and, beyond that, tomorrow will bring what tomorrow will bring. Second, the agencies' bread and butter clients are guys who aren't serious about visiting but love to think they have a beautiful foreign girlfriend. Milking these clients is easy and the reality is both client and business owner are pleased, so why bother changing a business model for the benefit of a few?

[remiel6]

first of all, hey Alex. How's it going? Second I can at least vouch for Alex's knowledge on the subject as I know Alex. Lastly Alex would be the first person to tell anyone not to use the agencies at all. Despite many people's attempts to the contrary I think most peoples first experience into this endeavor is via the agency. Alex's main point I think is to find a way to force the agency, short of not using them which is the best idea, to be accountable for their work. We've all heard stories about and read many posts about agencies writting letters for people. We have probably seen it ourselves.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am going to raise this topic on every single forum in the Internet and I ask you to support my idea.

I live in Lugansk..............

Although I personally applaud your efforts for wanting to be a "crime fighting" Super Hero in the FSU, I think it would only be prudent on my part to warn you that there are certain "consequences" for those who cross the wrong people in your neck of the woods.

And I am NOT just talking about the agency owners here. :evil:

One thing I learned from traveling inside the FSU, almost ALL business owners pay "protection" to someone. 

My wife's best friend in Moscow owns a business and she pays.

Dealing with them isn't like some Steven Seagal Hollywood movie either, No No...these are the kind of guys you DO NOT want to cross.

Good luck on your crusade!


GOB

[Aloe]

paying protection was in the 90s, at least to the mafia. Now you pay protection against neverending bureacratic checks that find nonexisting faults in your business, unless you pay.

[groovlstk]

Despite many people's attempts to the contrary I think most peoples first experience into this endeavor is via the agency. Alex's main point I think is to find a way to force the agency, short of not using them which is the best idea, to be accountable for their work. We've all heard stories about and read many posts about agencies writting letters for people. We have probably seen it ourselves.

Like GOB, I applaud Alex's efforts, but he's not the first or last guy who makes it his mission to reform the agency industry. He will fail, just like all the anti-scam sites and crusaders who came before him.

Every month some poor sap comes here complaining that he found out the woman he was writing to doesn't exist, or the apartment he paid for was switched at the last moment, etc. He announces his life's intent is to get revenge on the agency or girl by warning others. After a week or two of foaming at the mouth his anger is spent and he disappears.

It gets boring reading all these righteous, indignant claims and there's always, always a sanctimonious call to other men to join him in publicizing the scams, as if we all are responsible to make sure keyboard romeos are getting their dollar's worth.

There's no economic incentive to operate with transparency or honesty, and there are no avenues to address these complaints officially in the cities wherein they operate. So guys who get ripped off complain to honest-when-it-suits-him Jim or post on message boards about their experiences. Toss in guys spurned by women who retaliate by labelling the women as scammers simply because she's not interested in some fleshy old fart, and the value of scam lists plummets even further.

Like pretty much every avenue in this pursuit, there's only one person a guy can rely on, and that's himself. That covers pretty much everything, from travel arrangements to relationships, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

[RussianWind]

Second, the agencies' bread and butter clients are guys who aren't serious about visiting but love to think they have a beautiful foreign girlfriend.

I don't think agencies' clients are not serious but the second part of your line is very correct. They sell hope.

Unfortunately some agencies act dishonestly to both men and women. Their task is to suck money from every client and for as long as it possible. There are people who work there (interpreters) who are obligated to answer any letter and any chat on the site. Let's say a 60 y.o. man calls for a 20 y.o. girl.... A friend of mine worked such interpreter and left with negative feelings. Even simple dating sites cheat people with fake profiles, you didn't know that?

I'll tell you a hilarious story. There is a huge match making site but being not a paying member you can't see photos of other memebrs. Since my registration on this site nobody was interested in my profile. A month later I wrote a question to the tech support concerning their payment system. Next day I got an anwer from them and... 1 letter from a British gentleman in Chelyabinsk, 1 interest from a French man in Perm and 1 letter from a Kongo guy in Kaliningrad. Would you believe that? I hysterically cried with laugthing Needless to say since I didn't pay anything, I get no more letters from that site.  

The site name is DatingDirectAffinity.com I think it's them who are showing lot of advertising on TV now in Britain.

[Misha]

Alex would be the first person to tell anyone not to use the agencies at all. Despite many people's attempts to the contrary I think most peoples first experience into this endeavor is via the agency.

Men have a choice. There are Russian dating sites that are free. However, from what I read here, some men somehow believe that the women are more attractive on the agency sites, or that they somehow the women in the agencies are better in English. Try to reason with men, and it will get you nowhere.

Try to explain to men pursuing a fantasy that real women who are sincerely looking for a husband will invariably look locally as well and will thus create a profile on a free Russian dating site. Try explaining to them that there are Russian women on the free dating sites that speak English, and that you simply have to look for them. Finally, try telling them that the reason that hot twenty-year-old women do not reply to their messages is precisely because they are real, and that under normal circumstances women really interested in men 30 or 40 years older than they are as rare as hen's teeth.

If anything, I have learned, that if I were to start an agency, my target would be gullible, lonely men searching for fantasies as they would provide the greatest profit.

The problem, IMHO, as Groov and others have pointed out, are the hordes of gullible men that less-than-honest agencies are more than happy to serve them as they seek fulfill their fantasies. For all others, there are other options.  

[Misha]

Even simple dating sites cheat people with fake profiles, you didn't know that?

These are easy to spot. Those with fake profile tend to have few photos and they look a bit too good. The real profiles usually included the usual photos people take (i.e. the cropped photo taken at a party, the photo in front of some kind of monument, etc...)

[RussianWind]

some men somehow believe that the women are more attractive on the agency sites, or that they somehow the women in the agencies are better in English.

Just on the contrary I think

Agencies have professional photographers who also want to earn money. So agencies have "better covers for their goods" and they need models to hook men.

On dating sites women try not to post their professional photos even if they have them, otherwise someone starts shouting about scamers

I've heard complains from real women who can't register because site moderators do not accept their photos, they think they are not real  Photos are not professional, just girls are very beautiful 

[Misha]

Just on the contrary I think

Agencies have professional photographers who also want to earn money. So agencies have "better covers for their goods" and they need models to hook men.

I agree as that is the point that I was trying to make.

[tim 360]

Bravo Alex for trying to save the day but...there are just way too many men who are suckers.  They will keep snapping at the bait.  And there is plenty of bait out there on the internet for these lonely guys to snap at, eerrr write to.  You know, they see that "pretty little doggie in the window" and they indulge themselves in a fantasy--which many agencies are only too willing and eager to engage in and PROFIT from.  One might say the agencies are even performing a service by giving so many lonely guys the chance to write.  Maybe some will become novelists one day.  Anyway, just too many suckers standing in line sending money to "correspondence" with FSU female photos, eerrr ladies.  And you think you are going to stop them somehow?  Besh wishes and very best of luck.

[SMS60]

Me think someone got reamed buy an angency.

Alex???

[Sculpto]

I have to vouch for Alex also.  He has been an invaluable advisor for over two years. 

Now.. as far as the idea that the ladies don't write their own letters.. I doubt there are many guys here who disagree with that statement.  In fact, it would seem that many are even aware of it and keep on writing, out of many different fantasies that are unlikely to ever be fulfilled.

To try and reach the hundreds of thousands of men who are corresponding with no one knows exactly how many agency profiles is a daunting task.  It is in fact monumental and would require a very convincing website that somehow managed to appear everywhere a search term even slightly related to bride seeking would pop it up on top.  Even then, many will still be sucked in by the slick agency web sites.

Alex.. I think there is a better chance of using the "ukrainian telegraph" if you know what I mean, to discredit the whole agency process and get the women to force the change.  After all, it is the ladies themselves that are being offered as the bait.  If there are no women willing to allow agencies to capitalize massively on their images then the agencies themselves will have to either do a better job of finding them husbands, or, go out of business.

Or.. guys can use free sites and be more persistent and realistic in their search which is probably the better idea all the way around.

[Shadow]

For the two guys who recommend him as advisor... perhaps you can make a better introduction of who and what Alex is.

[remiel6]

Alex is a translator in Lugansk. He helped me out immensely when I was there. I owe my meeting my fiance to alex's efforts and owe him a great deal of gratitude for that. He regularly meets with men from other countries who come to lugansk and helps them out

[remiel6]

I might add in a city known for scammers he was the first person there I met in the flesh. So call this a one man crusade against a city with a bad reputation, that as it turns out I have nothing but wonderful memories in largely because of him.

[Misha]

Even then, many will still be sucked in by the slick agency web sites.

The problem is that they really, really, really want to believe and they want to be sucked in. Didn't we have not too long ago a very long thread trying to explain to one man that the woman he was writing to was not real, and he simply refused to let go of his fantasy. No web site will ever convince these men once they are hooked IMHO.