Timeline, expectations, and a bunch of newbie questions....

[rjd400]

I'm almost apprehensive to post this.  I realize there is no cookie cutter playbook for how an international dating relationship works.  But I'm so new to this, I don't know if I have even the slightest clue as to what may be "expected" from a women in the FSU, particularly in the beginning.  I've read stories here, which I can draw ideas from but I'm really unsure of a few points that would seem critical.

As I stated in my introduction, I am currently corresponding(daily) with a gal from the Ukraine (via Chat and a few short phone calls) for about two weeks now(not from an agency).  We have discussed my coming to visit, and, while eager, she wasn't pressuring(which I appreciated), and I explained it would have to be a slow process for me.  I guess the scenario I imagined early on would be:

- correspond via email, chat, phone for 2-3 months (daily or roughly).  During this time try to get the warm and fuzzy about each other.  Who we are, what we expect, learn about the basics, exchange "life" photos (family, friends, work), addresses.

- by about the third month, if it all goes well, I would plan a trip over there, I'm thinking, at this point, early December.  I'm really a "one woman" kind of guy, so I'd only be going to visit her (of course, the back up plan would then be tourism).  I would probably go for about a week.  What are the expectations as far as time together?  Since I would be only visiting her, I'd hope to spend as much time with her as possible.  Is it common for a girl to take time off work over there to see you?  Is it normal to expect this much time from her?  Is the expectation to meet in her home town (Kharkov) or somewhere "neutral" (I was thinking home town, much more likely to see her in "her element")?  When visiting, should I plan the time together, or let her guide us, as it's her "turf"?

Again, I realize there is no blueprint.  But given there are cultural difference, I'm trying to get a sense of how these things start out.  I'm thinking that after that first visit, depending on how it goes, we will both have an idea of how things will proceed from there (if at all).

One other question (this is more far reaching, but popped into my head).  She says she's not corresponding with anyone else, which I'm not 100% sure I believe(but is nice to hear if she's saying it to be kind, and not deceptive). But at what point is it expected that, if there is correspondence with other people (on either side), that it stops and you are only "dating" the one person?  Didn't know if there were cultural differences. 

Thanks.

-Bob

[BC]

Think 'New Year' and you'll do fine.

If it doesn't work out with this woman, there will be many many others in a 'good mood' to meet. 

Most will have free time.

[Faux Pas]

Whoaaaa big fella!

You've just had email and chat discussion for about 2 weeks? If it were me, I would say to keep the trip in the back of your mind at this juncture as something that will occur at some point but, too early to plan now. After 2 or 3 more weeks you may find out you don't wish to visit her.

Hypothetically speaking, should the correspondence continue and progress 3-4 months and you both decide you just have to meet, then make the plans. Include her in the plans. She may be able to get off work and spend plenty of time with you. She may not and time be very limited which in that case, you may wish to plan it at a more convenient time for her.

Let things happen with you both emotionally. Don't try to put everything in a timeline. Learn about each other and many of those questions you asked you'll answer yourself. Dude on another thread has been corresponding for 2 years. Apparently he just got the fire built under his butt for motivation.

She probably is at least corresponding with others. At this point, you should be too. Right now you are nothing more than penpals.

[rjd400]

LOL, thanks... noted and taken under advisement. 

[Misha]

the back up plan would then be tourism

I have never had the opportunity to be visit Russia over the New Year's Holiday. It would be a wonderful time to go. Personally, I would make a New Year's Trip the primary goal and if you happen to be with someone, that can be the icing on the proverbial cake  

[BC]

Faux,

Bob is just getting over a divorce and of course feels the itch to date in a new venue.

At this point he should be going out and having fun.. as long as that is his intent quite fine if in his home town or FSU.

He's not chasing women at 'marriage agencies' so why get so serious with 3 or 4 months 'get to know you' type deal?

IMHO keep things 'light', go have a good time with the least of expectations..

[BC]

I have never had the opportunity to be visit Russia over the New Year's Holiday.

I have and all I can say is 'Magic'..  Sorta like a national orgasm.. LOL

[Faux Pas]

Faux,

Bob is just getting over a divorce and of course feels the itch to date in a new venue.

At this point he should be going out and having fun.. as long as that is his intent quite fine if in his home town or FSU.

He's not chasing women at 'marriage agencies' so why get so serious with 3 or 4 months 'get to know you' type deal?

IMHO keep things 'light', go have a good time with the least of expectations..

Point well made and advised. He mentioned earlier on another thread IIRC that he was a WOVO kind of mission. My caution is to step back and go with the flow kind of thing without attempting to frame trips and timelines. Two weeks seems a bit early to consider such IMO.

[Gator]

- correspond via email, chat, phone for 2-3 months (daily or roughly).  During this time try to get the warm and fuzzy about each other.  Who we are, what we expect, learn about the basics, exchange "life" photos (family, friends, work), addresses.

By the second month of daily calls you should be bold with your questions.  Discuss at length her wishes for: babies, education, work, family visits, taking care of her parents, etc.  This has been referred to as "converse in reverse."  In other words, assume you are married and describe how you want your life to go. 

This may reveal a deal killer.  If so, confirm it.  You may need to walk away even though you have a lot of time invested in her.  I repeat, BE PREPARED TO WALK AWAY.  Too many men rationalize away a potential problem until it bites them in the ass.

By the third month of talks, sex is not taboo.  However, be a gentleman and leave much to the imagination.

- by about the third month, if it all goes well, I would plan a trip over there, I'm thinking, at this point, early December.

As BC and Misha said, think New Year's.  No one works.  They party, party, party.  If she really likes you, she will want you to meet her for New Year's.  If she is indifferent, she will want you to visit some other time.

I'm really a "one woman" kind of guy, so I'd only be going to visit her (of course, the back up plan would then be tourism). 

Certainly appropriate if you have talked every day for 2-3 months.

I would probably go for about a week.  What are the expectations as far as time together?  Since I would be only visiting her, I'd hope to spend as much time with her as possible.  Is it common for a girl to take time off work over there to see you?  Is it normal to expect this much time from her? 

A week is fine for the first meeting.  If a WOVO trip, she should take most of the week off from work.  However, some women are unable to make a clean break and are called into the office periodically.

Is the expectation to meet in her home town (Kharkov) or somewhere "neutral" (I was thinking home town, much more likely to see her in "her element")?  When visiting, should I plan the time together, or let her guide us, as it's her "turf"?

Her hometown is best.  Why?  If she really likes you, you will meet her family.  Be prepared for that meeting, especially if she still has a good relationship with her father (I trust you like vodka and don’t get silly when you drink too much).

But at what point is it expected that, if there is correspondence with other people (on either side), that it stops and you are only "dating" the one person?

Just like here, you don’t have a relationship until you meet.  The first 15 minutes can wipe out three months of correspondence.  After you meet, anything is possible.

rjd400, a final comment.  Having written all this, I still suggest that you go WMVM because you are in a divorce rebound whether you recognize it or not.  You may lose this woman if you do, and you certainly will spoil the bloom.

[groovlstk]

Two weeks seems a bit early to consider such IMO.

Obviously everyone has to do what their comfortable with, but there were many times during my search, particularly at the beginning, where I wished I had met the woman I was communicating with a lot quicker - if only to save myself months of emails and phonecalls that I would have known would go nowhere immediately had we met in person sooner.

[rjd400]

Thanks guys.

I wouldn't be going over there unless I thought there MIGHT be something worth pursuing.  So I guess I could say that if and when I do make the trip, it would be with the expectations of the potential for something.  Or at least because I felt that the correspondence has run as far as it could and I needed "face time" to see if there was something there.  To me, the trip over is just the next step on getting to know the person better.  I don't have any intentions of running over there with a ring, as I expect there will be many trips over there once I meet someone with potential before that becomes a thought.

[Faux Pas]

Obviously everyone has to do what their comfortable with, but there were many times during my search, particularly at the beginning, where I wished I had met the woman I was communicating with a lot quicker - if only to save myself months of emails and phonecalls that I would have known would go nowhere immediately had we met in person sooner.

Understood. Isn't that a bit like armchair quarterbacking with a crystal ball? It seems to me that any where in a 1-4 week time period anything can and does happen. We could all have saved untold amounts of time if we could have the 4th and 5th weeks conversation in week one? Seems to be another of the pitfalls of international dating.

[groovlstk]

We could all have saved untold amounts of time if we could have the 4th and 5th weeks conversation in week one? Seems to be another of the pitfalls of international dating.

I don't remember anyone coming here before with premature plans to travel - seems to me most guys are just the opposite, they have plenty of excuses why they must wait another 6 months (to learn some Russian, get time off at work, save $), all of which seem like BS to me. If the OP wants to take the bull by the horns (as Maxxum did - if I remember right, he booked a trip to Russia within a week of chatting with his wife) and get this over with I would urge him to go for it as long as he has a backup plan.

[Faux Pas]

I don't remember anyone coming here before with premature plans to travel - seems to me most guys are just the opposite, they have plenty of excuses why they must wait another 6 months (to learn some Russian, get time off at work, save $), all of which seem like BS to me. If the OP wants to take the bull by the horns (as Maxxum did - if I remember right, he booked a trip to Russia within a week of chatting with his wife) and get this over with I would urge him to go for it as long as he has a backup plan.

All very true and you are preaching to the choir here groov. I made my first trip 3 months from the first phone conversation (there abouts). I wish I had made it earlier now, but quite honestly for those first 3 months I was concerned (mostly from horror stories) that I was being played. That all dissipated rather quickly after we met and my concerns were unfounded. I didn't know that then and because of that I wouldn't advise pulling the trigger for a trip to quickly. That is more my personal comfort zone.

Most guys, as we both know don't go and many of those probably never have an intention to go. Bob strikes me as one who'll likely make the trip if the flow goes well with his lady. If he prematurely plans and then things go south with the lady. Thats liable to chap his ass just a bit to the whole endeavor. Or more so, It would me.

[groovlstk]

You may need to walk away even though you have a lot of time invested in her.  I repeat, BE PREPARED TO WALK AWAY.  Too many men rationalize away a potential problem until it bites them in the ass.

Gator, in every account of a trainwreck I've ever read, this simple philosophy would have saved each and every guy's bacon.

[JR]

Hey rjd,

Stay casual. You have some stuff you need to work thru.

Go when you are ready.

WMVM is safer than WOVO.

You become exclusive when you both feel it and agree to it.

Her hometown. If she digs you you get to meet friends and family.

I like what Gator said "don't rationalize away potential problems."

Be decisive, be the man.

Always remember it's your journey.

[Mars]

A couple of points.

First, even if you go to her home town, it is not a given that you will meet her family.  For many of the FSU women, intro to the family is taken a bit more serious than in USA.  Here, it is not uncommon to bring a gal to a family picnic, etc., on a first or second date.  It doesn't mean all that much in terms of seriousness.  But in FSU it means more and the woman will be reluctant to take that step until she is quite a bit more sure of you than she can ascertain in one week.  So not meeting the family on a first trip to visit a gal is NOT a sign that she isn't somewhat into you.  She just hasn't had enough time to get really into you.  Also, neighbors are quite a bit more nosey (and generally much closer in terms of space) in FSU and it starts a lot of talk when the strange man shows up and enters the apt next door.  Not something the gal and her family wants too soon in the game.

Second, the her time off from work.  Here the situation can fall anywhere along a continuum from zero time off to unlimited time off.  But also, just as important, is that many, many people in FSU take a less than serious attitude toward following through on their agreements than you might be used to in dealing with people in USA.  Do not be surprised if this or any other gal agrees to take 5 days off from work and then, when you are there, she continues to go to work anyway.  In their mind, an agreement to do such and such is just something that they might do if it is convenient to do so.

[GoodOlBoy]

Also, neighbors are quite a bit more nosey (and generally much closer in terms of space) in FSU and it starts a lot of talk when the strange man shows up and enters the apt next door.   Not something the gal and her family wants too soon in the game.

Strange.....Are we talking about "schoolgirls" here, who live with Mom and Dad? 

Or independent women who have their own flats?

Here the situation can fall anywhere along a continuum from zero time off to unlimited time off.  But also, just as important, is that many, many people in FSU take a less than serious attitude toward following through on their agreements........

Again...I have to ask, are we talking about "schoolgirls" here?

Because on the contrary, I would have to say with my limited exposure to FSU (adult) women, when an FSU lady makes her mind up about anything...that's it!!

I would also have to say from my experiences (with adult FSUW) when they give you their word, it is as good as gold. Period.

IMHO....Very different behavior, than what you can expect from our typical AW (at any age) here in the GoodOl' USA.


GOB

Do not be surprised if this or any other gal agrees to take 5 days off from work and then, when you are there, she continues to go to work anyway.

PS....If any FSUW behaves like this with you, chances are she is NOT into you and you just might want to re-evaluate your relationship with her.

[Shadow]

Some notes on the above.

1. Meeting friends and family is a sign of her seeing marriage potential in you. Unless you are suggested to meet them in a fancy restaurant, in that case the potential might be your wallet.

2. Having to work, appointments with friends getting canceeled are both signs of no interest. If she is interested in you, she will call het boss she has some foreign illness.

3. As for neighbours, the news travels faster through the Babushka network as on Twitter.... so keep your mouth shut if you are invited to her apartment until you are behind the steel door.

[BC]

Quote from: Mars on Yesterday at 22:16:20

Do not be surprised if this or any other gal agrees to take 5 days off from work and then, when you are there, she continues to go to work anyway.

PS....If any FSUW behaves like this with you, chances are she is NOT into you and you just might want to re-evaluate your relationship with her.

Hmm.. never heard of a 5 day first date in the western world where a woman takes 5 vacation days off.. doubt they are 'normal' in the east either.  If she does, great, but if not also ok unless their meetings do not escalate and he feels 'ignored' after the first 15 mins or she finds more and more excuses/delays/limits/wants compensation for lost wages.

[Gator]

Hmm.. never heard of a 5 day first date in the western world where a woman takes 5 vacation days off.. doubt they are 'normal' in the east either.  If she does, great, but if not also ok unless their meetings do not escalate and he feels 'ignored' after the first 15 mins or she finds more and more excuses/delays/limits/wants compensation for lost wages.

If a WOVO trip, I would hope she would take time off from work.  For sure he has taken time off to travel to her city.

Otherwise he should do a WMVM trip.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah...I was thinking like Gator (WOVO) trip.

After taking time off from your own job and the money you spend to go visit her, the least she can do is take off for 5 days and show you around her city.  :noidea:

Unless she gets a lot of other "visitors". :evil:


GOB

[groovlstk]

Unless the women you are visiting is poor and can't afford a week off, I would never travel 5000 miles to spend a week aimlessly wandering around waiting for a few hours' time together in the evening. Not only is it an inefficient use of your time, it screams puppy dog.

This doesn't apply if you're planning an extended stay, of course.

Make your arrangements together and make sure she can take time off. If she's reluctant to do it, you may want to look elsewhere.

[BC]

Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=2

Y'all are describing some SERIOUS dating.. LOL

Isn't a little 'cat n mouse' involved with dating anymore?

Ever dated a woman that wanted to 'hang on you' (puppy) every minute of the day afterward?.. "Hey babe.. you're really nice but I do have to go pee.."

I think a little 'space' is pretty productive to see who's cat and who mouse..  Also raises the intrigue level.

Otherwise what's the point of fishing.. for the fish to jump in your lap?

Showing a little independence is a good thing IMHO.. on both sides of the fence.

Does the expense of international dating justify entitlement? - me thinks not.

[GoodOlBoy]

I understand your point BC.

It's just my feeling that this whole thing (International Dating) is a real "crapshoot" and to try and make the odds work in your favor requires as much "face time" with your prospective FSU date as possible.

And you are absolutely correct, nobody is entitled to anything just because of expenses incurred.

I just see it as good manners when she is your host in a strange country/city.
 

GOB