the "P" word....

[AramisLux]

i have been taking lots of my free time lately to study russian, and have noticed that in my 'conversational' russian language books the equivelant of the word 'please' hardly ever appears. this makes me wonder if in russian culture this word is not used much or is considered not as necessary as in might be in english.

the real reason i am asking, and why this is kinda important, is that i sometimes cross paths with a woman that i think is an fsuw. i have never actually spoken to her, but i know she can speak some english and i have also heard her use some russian words that i know. while i would love to get into at least one conversation with her in russian, i don't want to approach her in a way that might be taken as a 'foux pa'. would an fsuw living in the usa think it weak or unseemly if an AM approaches her and uses 'poe ja loos sta'? or should the first thing out of my mouth be 'prostit eh' and not use 'poe ja loos sta' at all?

[JR]

Show her that you are a real man. Your first words to her should be: Стань моим секс-рабыней

That of course is a joke!

[Vaughn]

I made a friendly acquaintance with a guy on the train from Moscow to Yoshkar-Ola
who became my language tutor for the evening in a dining car...  he emphatically
stated that I (and probably Americans in general) overuse "Please" and "Thank You"
to a fault. In trying to be polite, we are overly so, for instance: It is not necessary
to thank a waiter or waitress more than once, and it's best to save that thanks for
the end of a served meal...

In approaching a FSUW in the USA, using 'poe ja loos sta', assuming you are
pronouncing it correctly, is fine - but if your Russian is limited, why not just approach
her in your native English with which you are more comfortable?

If you insist on trying Russian, stick with извините, пожалуйста (excuse me, please)
and continue from there.... roughly pronounced eez-vee-NEE-tyeh   pah-ZHAL-sta with the
stress on Capitalized syllables. Good luck dude.

[AramisLux]

guys:

thanks for the comments; just the kind of help i was looking for. and your pronounciation guide is really useful too.

as for americans using please and thank you too much, upon further thought, i have to agree. and we probably speak too much in general and also too loudly at times.

i have thought about using an approach in english. just need to decide which approach will get the best results. i've never engaged anyone in conversation using russian so the confidence factor is certainly in play.

[Doll]

I am thinking of approaching anybody with "please".
Please what?

[Vaughn]

I am thinking of approaching anybody with "please".
Please what?

Exactly. Please excuse me (or) Excuse me, please....after that is anyone's guess.

[JR]

How about just being yourself? Do what feels right to you. She'll respond in her own way. Be confident and don't worry about the rest.

[elliott]

...Americans in general overuse "Please" and "Thank You" to a fault. In trying to be polite, we are overly so...

You're probably right.  But, I think it shows excellent manners if, when asked by a waiter if he/she wants more tea, the person responds "Yes, please" and after the tea is poured says "Thank you."  I must disagree with your friend, though, as I frequent working-class restaurants and truckstops, and I don't hear common courtesy and politeness near enough.

[RussianWind]

Show her that you are a real man. Your first words to her should be: Стань моим секс-рабыней

I would advice you to put a helmet on before saying that

...Americans in general overuse "Please" and "Thank You" to a fault. In trying to be polite, we are overly so...

Be yourself. It's better to overuse than "underuse". No, I don't think Americans use please and thank you much more often than we do.

[tfcrew]

...  he emphatically
stated that I (and probably Americans in general) overuse "Please" and "Thank You"
to a fault. In trying to be polite, we are overly so, for instance: It is not necessary...

I'll tell you what [American spoken] words are overused and most insincerely at that...
"I'm sorry"
Everytime I hear that from some soggy pretentious vilpillinen...I just want to hurl on them.
The   Russian equivilant is something like izvenita...
rarely will you hear it said from Russian speaking people.
 
 

[SANDRO43]

Everytime I hear that from some soggy pretentious vilpillinen...

Isn't that Finnish for liars ? I never saw it used in English before .

[Mars]

It is my opinion that it is fine, and shows good manners to say frequently, 'please, thank you, I am sorry, etc.'

And, it annoys me considerably that people in FSU do not use these words enough . . . except to total strangers.  i.e.  Women who I am with will frequently use these words to complete strangers when asking for directions, etc., but will refuse to say these words to me or to others in their own family.

When I comment on this; the women's reply is something like; that's just not what we say to family and close friends.  Family and close friends don't have to be thanked, etc.

In many contexts, I haven't really noticed huge cultural differences between myself and FSU people, but this is one area in which there is a huge gulf.

And to those who say Americans are insincere when they say 'please, thank you, I'M sorry, etc.', I say so what if an individual might be?  It is still a much more pleasant and civilized world when people use these words rather than the grumpy faced, snarly attitude shown by shopkeepers and others in the FSU.

As for myself, when I use these words, I am not insincere.  But then again, when I say 'I am sorry', it doesn't mean that I feel so bad about the situation that I am going to commit suicide or some such.  But it is still pleasant to hear those words when something has not gone quite right.

[tfcrew]

Vilpillinen

Yeah...insincere.

And, it annoys me considerably that people in FSU do not use these words enough . . .
 
 

Something that you would have to get over.

And yes [I'm sorry]..but most often people say they are sorry and they just are not apologetic.

[AramisLux]

Doll:

to answer your question, i am asking about the use of the word please in context of asking her to talk to me in russian. like saying: "please have a conversation with me in russian because i would like to practice using my russian".

i know it sounds like a simple or a funny question, but one of the reasons i am asking is that my inclination is to say "please please please talked to me in russian".

would that be a bad approach?

[RussianWind]

i know it sounds like a simple or a funny question, but one of the reasons i am asking is that my inclination is to say "please please please talked to me in russian".

would that be a bad approach?

Please don't cry I will talk in Russian to you 

Do you want to date her? I will tell you one thing. No one foreigner is ever able to pronounce "пожалуйста" without an accent, it makes the situation more smooth and less uncomfortable. Just smile and be brave, it's gonna work. GO 

P.S. In this context I vote for пожалуйста

[ConnerVT]

I'll tell you what [American spoken] words are overused and most insincerely at that...

"I'm sorry"

Or even worse -- "I'm sorry, but.... [some exuse why it isn't their fault]".

Nothing worse than apologizing, but then not taking responsibility for what you are apologizing for!

But a story of one person I knew, back in my college days, who would say "I'm sorry" in nearly every sentence.  I once shared a house with a good friend and his girlfriend.  She would say "I'm sorry" enough to drive me crazy.  it was a verbal tick, such as people who say, "You know" or "Uh.

I quickly got it to the habit of responding to her "I'm sorry" by responding with, "Yes, you are".  A bit mean (I was, after all, a 19 year old jerk at the time), but effective.  She corrected the habit in roughly two weeks time.

[Aloe]

both my mother in law and my father in law (unbeknownst to each other) told me that i dont need to say thank you so often, they think once after dinner is enough, not after every dish or etc. I say thank you to my hubby if he gets me some water or socks, or anything, so peoples excuses that it is uncommon in Russia are not true, well they are just plain rude people, thats all

[Aloe]

To the topic starter/ I think it is a very weird thing to start conversation with please, what id start with is "hello, do you speak russian?" then maybe if the answer is positive you can say "Я учусь говорить по-русски, вы не против со мной побеседовать (для практики)?" That is a very polite phrase without using please. Besides she could be bulgarian or from some other country with a similar language, some words they use sound like russian, so i think its a good idea to ask her if she speaks russian

[Aloe]

Show her that you are a real man. Your first words to her should be: Стань моим секс-рабыней

That of course is a joke!

Didnt know you were into shemales 

[RussianWind]

I say thank you to my hubby if he gets me some water or socks, or anything, so peoples excuses that it is uncommon in Russia are not true, well they are just plain rude people, thats all

I also always say "thank you" to my dog when he brings me socks...

[Shadow]

I also always say "thank you" to my dog when he brings me socks...

My cat always says please give me moarrr food.

[CallMeSasha]

peoples excuses that it is uncommon in Russia are not true, well they are just plain rude people, thats all

you've hit the nail on the head there.

from the time i've spent in moscow i would estimate that 9 out of 10 people would just push-pass you without saying anything (i even notice it as soon as i queue at the aeroflot check-in at heathrow) and neither will people hold doors open for you etc. my wife's first visit back to russia without me (having lived here for 2 yrs) surprised her at how rude the people are there & also when her mother visits us she always goes on about how nice and polite the people are here

for me please/thank you/excuse me etc are signs of appreciation - example of an imaginary conversation with a close friend:

"pass me my coat" - translates to i know you will regardless of how i ask
"please pass me my coat" - translates to i know you will, but i appreciate you doing it

also it is interesting to hear comments on over-using words. for example i was brought-up to thank my parents for cooking me a meal etc, of course as a child they had an obligation to feed me, the difference is i was bought up to be grateful for the actions of others rather than to take it for granted

of course simple expressions of thanks may seem inappropriate at times, however you can always make a distinction by saying something like "thank you very much for that meal mum, it was absolutely delicious & i really enjoyed it"

being polite costs nothing and goes a very long way!

[Aloe]

well if someone goes through the trouble of getting up and bringing me a dish or a drink, i think its very appropriate to thank them every time   not just once after the whole dinner is done  
by the way i had a girl step on my foot twice on the train here, and not say anything, so rude people are anywhere you go. But generally people seem a bit more polite here

[Aloe]

I also always say "thank you" to my dog when he brings me socks...

are you implying i use my husband to perform dogs functions i bring him socks too

[Daveman]

you've hit the nail on the head there.

from the time i've spent in moscow i would estimate that 9 out of 10 people would just push-pass you without saying anything (i even notice it as soon as i queue at the aeroflot check-in at heathrow) and neither will people hold doors open for you etc. my wife's first visit back to russia without me (having lived here for 2 yrs) surprised her at how rude the people are there & also when her mother visits us she always goes on about how nice and polite the people are here

for me please/thank you/excuse me etc are signs of appreciation - example of an imaginary conversation with a close friend:

"pass me my coat" - translates to i know you will regardless of how i ask
"please pass me my coat" - translates to i know you will, but i appreciate you doing it

also it is interesting to hear comments on over-using words. for example i was brought-up to thank my parents for cooking me a meal etc, of course as a child they had an obligation to feed me, the difference is i was bought up to be grateful for the actions of others rather than to take it for granted

of course simple expressions of thanks may seem inappropriate at times, however you can always make a distinction by saying something like "thank you very much for that meal mum, it was absolutely delicious & i really enjoyed it"

being polite costs nothing and goes a very long way!

Same here. Politeness was ingrained from as far back as I can remember.  Not only the politeness, but also the attitude of gratitude that treats any such actions as "special" and worthy of sincere appreciation. 

Some RW claim we are hypocrites because we smile, or say too many pleasantries which we can't possibly mean with sincerity, but, when I hear something like this I remember the glow on the face of an RW (or any woman) if she cooks a meal for me, and then afterward I give her a gentle kiss and whisper "That was delicious, thank you." Of course she brushes it off with "it was nothing" or whatever, but the look on her face is unmistakable. People do love being appreciated for what they do. People hate being taken for granted. Pretty easy to understand really.