Upcoming Divorce

[Sculpto]

Doll, thanks for answering the page.. I hope you can help this fellow..

BTW.. to Jim.. let her have the temper tantrum.. and use the moment as an opportunity to go fishing with your buddies.. or whatever it is that you do..

And most of all.. KEEP YOUR 10K no matter how loud she screams. 

[JR]

Start the divorce now. The sooner you get the paperwork filed the better off you will stand financially. Then start councilling if you wish and she is willing. If you dally around trying to decide what to do you'll only put yourself on the hook for more alimoney.

You can't force her to change back into what she was. That is gone. You need to deal with what she is. If that is intolerable to you then your only recourse is to change yourself, into a free man. My ex and I went to councilling for three years. It didn't do a damn thing except finally wake me up to the fact that she was never going to change.

Start the process now, you can always postpone/cancel it.

[Boethius]

( I've been putting my paycheck on my personal account for 8 years  )

I would hazard a guess you do not sleep in a separate room, refuse to cook and clean for your husband, or participate in a normal family life.

Misha, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Her actions demonstrate she does not want a life with him, and he realizes that too. 

I am not one to suggest divorce easily.  I believe if children are involved, every action should be taken to save a marriage, and if it can't be saved, parents should stay single until their children are grown.  But, there are realities.  Living together in hostility, even if it is passive, is not good for either of them.

Jim, with regard to the daughter, you have, in fact, been her father figure for 5 years.  Be a man and support her, through at least part of her college if that is her inclination.  Tell her that directly.  She didn't ask to come to the US, she is still a kid, and an innocent victim in all of this.

[Misha]

Misha, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Her actions demonstrate she does not want a life with him, and he realizes that too.

I simply don't believe that men should rush to get married, and I do not believe they should rush to get divorced either if there is a chance that they can resolve their differences. Again, I am willing to agree to disagree. Of course, it helped that Jim clarified his situation. He seems to have made the mistake that too many make: he married woman A hoping that she would become B and a few years later, lo and behold, she is still woman A.

[Boethius]

I don't think that is the common mistake.  The common mistake is believing Partner A is Partner B, with idealization related thereto.  Eventually, the bloom falls off the rose, and one sees Partner A's unchanged true nature.

If is a self delusion, and is not confined to men.

[GoodOlBoy]

She didn't ask to come to the US, she is still a kid, and an innocent victim in all of this.

It looks like Mom may be teaching the "innocent" daughter some VERY bad habits, on how to treat a man/husband/marriage?? :evil:

Is it me or does this thread seem to run some "eerie" similarities with "Wayne" and his 60+ page ongoing debacle??

......she was getting all the expensive new clothes..... No sex...... moved into seperate bedroom.  Believe this was planned all along. She doesn't clean, cook or do laundry for me.  House was never so dirty before.....teenage Step-daughter....Any ideas?  Help!

It's almost like "deja vu".

Different train, same wreck??


GOB

[Misha]

If is a self delusion, and is not confined to men.

I agree with you here. Men delude themselves one way or another  

[Boethius]

It looks like Mom may be teaching the "innocent" daughter some VERY bad habits, on how to treat a man/husband??

We don't know that.  I've known women who did not have good mothers who turned out just fine.

She is 16.  Still a kid.  She is going to do what her mother tells her because she relies on her.  But, because she is a kid, she deserves financial help, and hopefully, Jim has been a good father to her, and will continue in that role no matter what happens with her mother.  A real man would do no less.

[GoodOlBoy]

We don't know that.  I've known women who did not have good mothers who turned out just fine.

I guess GOB's philosophy has always been "your children live by the example you set".

Would have to say right now that the "innocent" child in question isn't receiving a very good example from Mom (using men, dirty house, won't cook, etc. etc.).


GOB

[ScottinCrimea]

So you want a divorce because you have to pay all the bills ?
Sounds... well...
I agree that the family finances should be a joint thing, but at the same time the man should be able to provide for the family, the wife has the money for emergenncies and 'fun'.

So help me with this... the expectation for the man is that he should provide for the family monetarily and if the wife chooses to work her money is for fun and the possible emergency.  So the man's job is to provide everything for the family financially.  What is the expectation in a marriage for the wife?

[Doll]

I would hazard a guess you do not sleep in a separate room, refuse to cook and clean for your husband, or participate in a normal family life.

 I sure do when I want to (sleep in a separate room). I do clean and cook. My husband cooks when I don't want or have no time. I just like cooking and have a teen son. Pennsylvanian Dutch cooking is not for a 16 yo sportsman.
The major reason is -my husband works much longer hours and makes times more money so I consider it fair to not get him involved in cooking. Yet this weekend he is cooking.
 Like I said- I deposit my paycheck on my account. Don't know about Hollywood but my 16yo plays sport which means 5 days a week practice and going to contests- New York, NJ, MD and of course PA. It is quite expensive too.  His jiu juitsu gear is $300+ definitely.

I can't help the OP is he wants his wife to give him her paycheck, clean and cook for him, meet his "desires", stay home (away from malls) or keep her daughter away from her dreams.
Just because I do the opposite- I spend my money the way I think is right, my husband is OK with it, we do support the teen in all his "wild" dreams (he wants to be the world best in JJ).

[Doll]

participate in a normal family life.

Wait a minute! Define "normal", please.

[Doll]

So help me with this... the expectation for the man is that he should provide for the family monetarily and if the wife chooses to work her money is for fun and the possible emergency.  So the man's job is to provide everything for the family financially.  What is the expectation in a marriage for the wife?

Depends on many factors- how much the man makes, if he pays for his wife's needs (clothing, cell, car+gas) and her daughter needs. If he doesn't spend his paycheck on these two ladies than it is more than OK for his wife to keep her money. Have a mercy- we are immigrants who have to start earning here with limited English, no local experience, etc.
What are the expectations for a marriage of a born American from the person who came over and has to start her life all over? Uh?  Clean for him, cook for him AND give him her paycheck? Good luck with this.  So that's why the OP has been looking for the wife for 30 years (when did he start?) and thinking of divorcing the current wife he still wants to again search in Russia? To get another earning/ cleaning/cooking/ sleeping with him woman? Or he thinks RW can't think? I am sorry to disappoint him- they think just same way as AW think and even tougher because Russians are tougher and more stubborn. Yes they are.
 :noidea:

[docetae]

Depends on may factors- how much the man makes, if he pays for his wife's needs (clothing, cell, car+gas) and her daughter needs. If he doesn't spend his paycheck on these two ladies than it is more than OK for his wife to keep her money. Have a mercy- we are immigrants who have to start earning here with limited English, no local experience, etc.
What are the expectations for a marriage of a born American from the person who came over and has to start her life all over? Uh?  Clean for him, cook for him AND give him her paycheck? Good luck with this.  So that's why the OP has been looking for the wife for 30 years (when did he start?) and thinking of divorcing the current wife he still wants to again search in Russia? To get another earning/ cleaning/cooking/ sleeping with him woman? Or he thinks RW can't think? I am sorry to disappoint him- they think just same way as AW think and even tougher because Russians are tougher and more stubborn. Yes they are.
 :noidea:

And all these points must be discussed prior to the marriage ! Me and my wife are maniac planners, this is not a reference but we can not live without knowing what will be, what we have to do and what are our respective roles. We discussed about budget many times, what we want to do and what we can do.
We spend time to define limit of spending, to plan them, to know what must be our income if we want to do more. Same about roles in house...(my wife cooks during the week, I cook during week end... ). All routine is already established and we can focus on what is really important  

Communication about everything must be done in early stage...

[Daveman]

And all these points must be discussed prior to the marriage ! Me and my wife are maniac planners, this is not a reference but we can not live without knowing what will be, what we have to do and what are our respective roles. We discussed about budget many times, what we want to do and what we can do.
We spend time to define limit of spending, to plan them, to know what must be our income if we want to do more. Same about roles in house...(my wife cooks during the week, I cook during week end... ). All routine is already established and we can focus on what is really important  

Communication about everything must be done in early stage...

Yeah, I agree.  In this case though, we have a woman whose ideas about life seemingly changed, if we have all the information and it is accurate, when the family moved from a small town to a large city.  Whether she dwells in a fantasy or not, her values/direction in life has changed. His seemingly have not. They appear to be on divergent paths now.  The options are: move to her path, come back to his path, forge a new path in the same direction together (somewhat in the middle), or cut ties and go their separate ways. 

Her moving out of the bedroom could be a bit of a power play manipulative attempt to force her issue with what little power she actually has. 

The focus seems to be on "how to change her thinking and get her back to where she was"... very highly unlikely to ever happen.  People/relationships evolve, things change.  She has changed.  Perhaps now she prefers a lifestyle over her husband.  It could be a phase, or it could be permanent.  What would happen if the kid actually got a paying gig bringing decent money into mama's pocket? Would she be out the door to pursue a life of luxury? would she take hubby with her into the new life?  My guess is probably not the latter.

[boaterguy]

Looks to me like she saw greener pastures. I do not believe this can be reversed unless he wins the lottery. Sounds to me like she wants to stay married until she can find a mule with more money.

Before my wife and I married we had many discussions about finances and financial priorities. I made it perfectly clear that in my circles we would associate with some people who have a great deal more money than I have or most likely will ever have.

We had a ripple in our agreement when she met a Ukrainian girl who was 26 married to a well healed man in his 60's. He pretty well bought her anything she wanted. When my wife started throwing her in my face to justify spending outrageous money on designer clothes and jewelry I just told her to find an ole fart with money and marry him! We see them around 3 or 4 times a year. The 1st 3 or 4 times we saw them it caused a few strong thunderstorms in our relationship. Luckily for me my wife finally saw the voice of reason and is quite content with our lifestyle(knock on wood!).

[Doll]

we have a woman whose ideas about life seemingly changed,   

There is nothing unusual for an immigrant. The OP says they relocated to a big city so this is another life style. Her daughter was 11, now she is 16 and this is very different from 11. The young high school girl is thinking of her future. That's fine!

[Doll]

She actually relocated from one country to another, then from a small town to a big city.
My son's girlfriend is 16, her mother doesn't work, her father provides for the family, her older sister is in college. Needless to say the 16 yo is crazy about shopping for clothing, her mom and her shop for the teen. Nothing bad about it.
So it is the matter of money.

[ECOCKS]

Tough situation.

If the previous attempt to engage her in counseling only resulted in her contempt and refusal to accept things, then your course seems pretty clear to me. Get a good lawyer, follow their advice and concentrate on dissolving the marriage as fairly as possible. You need to take care of yourself and let them go their own way now.

Best of luck as this plays out, be careful and take care of yourself.

[Sculpto]

  What would happen if the kid actually got a paying gig bringing decent money into mama's pocket? Would she be out the door to pursue a life of luxury? would she take hubby with her into the new life?  My guess is probably not the latter.

Dont be so sure about that.  I think the power play assessment is a bullseye.  From wherever they moved from probably feels to her like the fantasy USA she imagined.  She may be having an unreasonable reaction, but, let me throw out something my girl said.

"Always I try to improve, I want you will improve also"

The assumption from some people is she doesn't want the divorce because she is trying to GC.  What if, and I am not suggesting it is the correct assumption, just a what if, she actually believes in "till death do us part and for better or worse?"  IF that is the case doesn't the OP owe it to her to try and understand her better instead of feeding into the argument and just splitting on her?  I think he should find out before he makes a decision that can not be reversed. 

Remember.. when the woman is happy, the man will be happy.

[ECOCKS]

.... What if, and I am not suggesting it is the correct assumption, just a what if, she actually believes in "till death do us part and for better or worse?"  IF that is the case doesn't the OP owe it to her to try and understand her better instead of feeding into the argument and just splitting on her? .

I don't agree this has any bearing. From the little we know here, she moved her things to another bedroom and embarked on a different lifestyle which seems to be pushing him to the breaking point. There were problems in the past and she has reportedly rejected counseling or trying find reasonable compromise. The OP says he didn't eeally care about being signed up with one of the modeling agencies and the associated picture-taking (low-level scamming IMO). He seems to be trying to compromise and accomodate her to no avail. She doesn't seem to be engaged in having a relationship or building a family life.

Marriage is a social contract, not a suicide pact.

[Sculpto]

I don't agree this has any bearing. From the little we know here, she moved her things to another bedroom and embarked on a different lifestyle which seems to be pushing him to the breaking point. There were problems in the past and she has reportedly rejected counseling or trying find reasonable compromise. The OP says he didn't eeally care about being signed up with one of the modeling agencies and the associated picture-taking (low-level scamming IMO). He seems to be trying to compromise and accomodate her to no avail. She doesn't seem to be engaged in having a relationship or building a family life.

Marriage is a social contract, not a suicide pact.

I don't disagree at all Ed.  the big "however" is once again we are only hearing one side of the story.  It certainly reminds of me the train wreck thread that is progressing on another forum.  The husband came on and portrayed the wife in a very bad way.. then.. a few days later she came on and told her side.. now the husband backed down from all the crap he said about his wife and revealed that in fact her side of the story was true and he had lied.. the entire forum went from being his cheerleader to cutting him down to size for being a real jerk.

I don't say that is what is happening here.. but.. there is once again a tendency in the forum to judge and jump to conclusions based on very very limited information.

[tfcrew]

  Yes, everyone has to sign the affidavit of support for a Ukraine immigration wife.  Does this mean I have more support obligations than for an American divorce, including child support?  Child is 16, and I am not her father and have not adopted.
  
  I am not down on Ukraine or Russian women, it was just my bad luck/choice to end up with a lemon.  If I get a divorce I will communicate with Russian and Ukraine women again. 

Review of affidavit...
Under terms of the K2 I think until the child is 18...support is due.

http://www.visapro.com/Immigration-Articles/?a=1335&z=36

The earlier comment about "this is how a lot of Ukrainian women are..."This is about how too many women everywhere are.
Keep us posted................................
Karl

[Doll]

The assumption from some people is she doesn't want the divorce because she is trying to GC.

I would think she already has her GC.

[Doll]

Sort of off top- guys who talk the OP into divorce, are you crazy or what?
You don't know any of them ( OP, his wife and the daughter) , yet you firmly tell him to get the divorce! Are you crazy? They are real people and having a hard time so how dare you to give this advice?
I guess the majority of our divorce advisers are not married, are they?