"motives" and your thoughts

[groovlstk]

Unless a woman harboured romantic feelings toward you, there won't be jealousy toward your wife.  The jealousy may by directed at your happiness as a couple, and why she can't find that happiness.

In an ideal world I could believe this. Women (and men) harbor plenty of petty prejudices, and the more petty these prejudices are, the more hard-pressed they are to admit to it. 

I think most of you believe this is jealousy because it puffs you up, perhaps even makes you feel unique.

Again, I wish this were true. I received a slew of anonymous emails after my wife arrived calling us both desperate losers, among other pleasantries. Four (married) couples I exchanged emails with every day prior to my wife arriving stopped inviting us to b-day parties, dinners, etc. after meeting her once. FWIW, none of these people were close friends but I've turned it over in my mind a thousand times and, unless we committed some faux pas (sorry, Faux Pas!) which I don't know about, there's no other conclusion I arrive at besides resentment.

FWIW, I would LOVE for strangers and casual friends to consider us normal, and not unique in the slightest.

[XMan]

The interesting thing is that the people who question the FSU idea don't seem to realize one key point: one doesn't have to go to the FSU to find a woman  (or a man, for that matter) with questionable motives.  There are plenty here in the USA.  I've met my share and maybe someone else's share as well.  There's probably half a dozen within a stones throw of wherever one resides, and more than likely much closer than that.  

The key is not losing one's head, AW, UW, RW, Any W.  

Fortunately, I think (or hope, at least) that there are just as many, if not more, real, honest, good women out there.
 
If only my Portable Electronic Russian Female Examination and Certification
Tool (PERFECT) was fully operational....
:-)

[Faux Pas]

The interesting thing is that the people who question the FSU idea don't seem to realize one key point: one doesn't have to go to the FSU to find a woman  (or a man, for that matter) with questionable motives.  There are plenty here in the USA.  I've met my share and maybe someone else's share as well.  There's probably half a dozen within a stones throw of wherever one resides, and more than likely much closer than that.  

The key is not losing one's head, AW, UW, RW, Any W.  

Fortunately, I think (or hope, at least) that there are just as many, if not more, real, honest, good women out there.
 
If only my Portable Electronic Russian Female Examination and Certification
Tool (PERFECT) was fully operational....
:-)

BINGO!

I have found more than my share of these right here in the US. Granted, there are also plenty of the honest and sincere ladies here to. There is something else I have not quite defined or put my finger on but I see in my RW a more eagerness and willing to work on and make a relationship work. It takes a hell of a lot of effort and patience from both the man and woman in an international relationship. Quite honestly it takes enough that "most" AW and AM would walk away from and/or fail the litmus test.

[Blues Fairy]

Unless a woman harboured romantic feelings toward you, there won't be jealousy toward your wife.  The jealousy may by directed at your happiness as a couple, and why she can't find that happiness.

True in our case; the only active criticizer of me was my husband's (former) "best friend" who, as I later learned, had been hoping all along that he would "come to his senses", dump me and choose her instead.   
Nevertheless, I can certainly understand that there may be people genuinely prejudiced against RW and genuinely worried about their friend's decision to pursue them. 

[rjd400]

Thanks Everyone.

I don't think my buddy meant anything bad.  He, like most people, only know of this kind of "dating" through what they see and hear on TV.  And most of that is bad stuff, so he's just looking out for me.

I never thought about looking at it from the other side.  I mean, yeah, I'm sure there are stories on the other side about FSUW coming to the US and being "scammed". 

I plan to do what is best for me and what I want.  Pretty much always have, despite friends and familys advice.  I was just curious how some of you handled the inevitable questions.

Thanks again.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks Everyone.

I don't think my buddy meant anything bad.  He, like most people, only know of this kind of "dating" through what they see and hear on TV.  And most of that is bad stuff, so he's just looking out for me.

I never thought about looking at it from the other side.  I mean, yeah, I'm sure there are stories on the other side about FSUW coming to the US and being "scammed". 

I plan to do what is best for me and what I want.  Pretty much always have, despite friends and familys advice.  I was just curious how some of you handled the inevitable questions.

Thanks again.

As in most everything, eventually the cream will rise to the top. How I mean that applied here is, if they are not your friend after you search abroad or bring a lady home, they were not really your friend to begin with. Friendships are fickle things anyway but true friends are with you for the duration. This is why I have chosen to keep my true friends low in number for pretty much most of my life.

Family and friends can and will make those kind of remarks but again the true friends do it out of ignorance and the others have some ulterior motive IMO.

[RussianWind]

like most people, only know of this kind of "dating" through what they see and hear on TV.  And most of that is bad stuff, so he's just looking out for me.

Tell him that we are also shown only bad horrible dramatic stories over TV here  Bad stories attract more attention, this is how media works.

Happy wedding Caddydaddy, wish you long happy life together 

[KenC]

Unless a woman harboured romantic feelings toward you, there won't be jealousy toward your wife.  The jealousy may by directed at your happiness as a couple, and why she can't find that happiness.

I think most of you believe this is jealousy because it puffs you up, perhaps even makes you feel unique.

Boethius,
While your premise of "harboured romantic feelings" may be true in a few instances; I think it goes beyond that.  It is almost like a dog peeing out their territory.  RW infringe upon what AW think is their native right.  I believe RW upset the apple cart for the ardent women's libbers in a big way.  Their fanatical ways only work when they have an "exclusive" on AM.

Many years ago, the "View" did a show on MOB's from the fsu.  In the beginning of the show these beeotches attacked the men for going over.  They were losers and couldn't get an AW.  When they were told by the men that they preferred RW over AW, boy did the fur fly! :hairraising:  BTW, fat azz Star led the hostesses in her tirade of how much better AW were over RW.

Over the last ten years, I really have heard it all: RW are here to escape standing in line for bread, RW came here to escape Communism (huh?), RW only want a green card, RW all dress like sluts and on and on.  Once during a night Lena and I were enjoying some live jazz, the female singer came to our table during a break.  After learning that Lena was Russian, she made the comment "Isn't it great that your country now has Democracy?  Now your people can get books and everything."  The extent of ignorance in my country is astounding sometimes.

As for having a puffed up chest; damn straight.  I was proud that I was smart enough not the "settle" for another AW.
KenC

[Misha]

I received a slew of anonymous emails after my wife arrived calling us both desperate losers, among other pleasantries. ...

Wow! I have to say that if anything was said about my wife, it was neither said openly nor sent by anonymous e-mail. Maybe it is a Canadian thing for people to say nothing directly  :noidea:

[GQBlues]

rjd400-

You need to be aware there will always be a stigma attach to this affair. How this is handled is entirely left up to you. Arguably, her biggest detractors will come from Russians themselves who settled here other than the K-visa process. Arguably, they'll be the ones that will be far more judgmental and intolerant to her than anyone else.

This is something both you and her will need to reconcile and accept as you go about your lives before and after she arrives. Much will rely on you and could help both your plight even BEFORE she arrives. I'll explain this below.
 
My experience:

All my male friends thought I was crazy. All my female friends were surprised. My brothers learned earlier on their lives that nothing I do ever surprises them anymore. My Mom thought I was just getting bored again and it was another passing interest that will soon fade away, so she didn't think it's serious and wished I invest my money on real estate instead.

When she arrived, everything pretty much remained the same. My brothers thought it was the coolest thing I can ever do. My female friends simply adored my wife and actually took it upon themslves to make her feel comfortable and showed her around our city the first couple of years. They included her to just about every girl activities they do. One of them actually became one of my wife's closest friend. She really liked her very much. Surprisingly, they even became protective of her with me. Unfortunately, like her, they started getting married. That one particular gal moved to NY which bombed my wife out.

Mum's happy for us but still skeptical. Not because of her but because of me. Which is OK because even *I* always believed that if this marriage didn't work out, it would be because of me and not her.

After my marriage, my male friends were happy for me but apparently I also confirmed their initial suspicion. I really am crazy. I won't argue the point.

As for the general AW's reaction to my wife, my wife never got anything negative even beyond my immediate circle of friends. Not for her being Russian and married to a US citizen. Not from her Uni chums, not from her office mates, nor our neighbors we occasionally socialize with. Sometimes she comes home and tells me compliments she would get from AWs at shops, malls, school, etc...

So sometimes I wonder if I live in the same country all the AM who post here.

I don't date fat women in my life, nor are they the only ones left who'll date me, so that was something I never complained about. Nor is AW's independence ever a threat to me so that was never a negative for me either. Matter of fact, I admire women who are independent and willing to seek their individual significance and niche separately from our relationship. My wife even said before she came here that one of the things she liked about our society is the opportunities women have to pursue whatever was available for them. My wife appreciates my conviction for the support I shared with her so she can find her individual worth and satisfaction today.

In summary, my only suspicion in this is probably because I never complained to my wife about anything AW.  Conversely, she saw pictures of my female friends and she even spoke to a couple of them on the phone before she came. So I believe she was void of any pre-conceived judgment, prejudice or mistrust prior to her arrival and even looked forward to meeting all of them in person. However, my wife was fairly judgmental with her Russian friends initially...but that is all fading away too.

OP, I do believe that your words and actions with your gal while she's still in FSU will undoubtedly have a huge influence in how she perceives your world once she arrives, and more importantly, how the world will respond to her. Until proven otherwise, what you plant in her mind and being in FSU will bear fruits to both of here at home. So be very careful with this.

That's just me...

[JR]

While your premise of "harboured romantic feelings" may be true in a few instances; I think it goes beyond that.  It is almost like a dog peeing out their territory.  RW infringe upon what AW think is their native right.  I believe RW upset the apple cart for the ardent women's libbers in a big way.  Their fanatical ways only work when they have an "exclusive" on AM.

I think this is a very good point Ken. There seems to be a general, unspoken statement of "You're not good enough so I'm looking beyond you" attached to this endeavor. It's a slap in the face to AW.

My experience was somewhere between Boethius and GQ's. There were some female friends to harboured feelings and they drifted away quickly. But there were also those whose opened their hearts and homes to her. My parents were skeptical (rightfully so now that it's in the past) but more than that they were happy that I was finally getting married. Most of my friends didn't really care for her, they saw what I refused to see. Keep your eyes open to both red flags and possibilities

[Boethius]

I received a slew of anonymous emails after my wife arrived calling us both desperate losers, among other pleasantries.

I would hazard a guess those emails were all from the same person.  I doubt your wife's Russian background had anything to do with this.  There are lots of people who are not "well wishers", as my husband says.  That person would have found something else if you'd hooked up with an AW.

Four (married) couples I exchanged emails with every day prior to my wife arriving stopped inviting us to b-day parties, dinners, etc. after meeting her once. FWIW, none of these people were close friends but I've turned it over in my mind a thousand times and, unless we committed some faux pas (sorry, Faux Pas!) which I don't know about, there's no other conclusion I arrive at besides resentment.  FWIW, I would LOVE for strangers and casual friends to consider us normal, and not unique in the slightest.

Generally, people like people who are similar to them.  I can speak Russian and Ukrainian, have more than a passing familiarity with the history, literature, and culture, but I would not seek out a RW/UW, particularly one in her twenties, as a friend.  We would not have much in common, as we are at very different places in our lives.  That could be the case with those couples, as well.  It just wasn't a "fit".  It is very unfortunate for your wife, I am sure she felt rejected, and the way the couples did this was cruel, but I can see why it happened.

[Boethius]

Boethius,
While your premise of "harboured romantic feelings" may be true in a few instances; I think it goes beyond that.  It is almost like a dog peeing out their territory.  RW infringe upon what AW think is their native right.  I believe RW upset the apple cart for the ardent women's libbers in a big way.  Their fanatical ways only work when they have an "exclusive" on AM.

Many years ago, the "View" did a show on MOB's from the fsu.  In the beginning of the show these beeotches attacked the men for going over.  They were losers and couldn't get an AW.  When they were told by the men that they preferred RW over AW, boy did the fur fly! :hairraising:  BTW, fat azz Star led the hostesses in her tirade of how much better AW were over RW.

Over the last ten years, I really have heard it all: RW are here to escape standing in line for bread, RW came here to escape Communism (huh?), RW only want a green card, RW all dress like sluts and on and on.  Once during a night Lena and I were enjoying some live jazz, the female singer came to our table during a break.  After learning that Lena was Russian, she made the comment "Isn't it great that your country now has Democracy?  Now your people can get books and everything."  The extent of ignorance in my country is astounding sometimes.

As for having a puffed up chest; damn straight.  I was proud that I was smart enough not the "settle" for another AW.
KenC

Well, Ken, I don't take anything on entertainment television too seriously.  Television that the masses want to watch needs to be controversial, so no matter what The View women really personally thought, of course they would say these things.  It makes for what passes as "good" television these days.  

The singer was partly right - what could be read was restricted in the FSU and there was no personal freedom.  I would have given her the benefit of the doubt in how she phrased that.

I also doubt that most AW even have this on their radar.  The numbers of women coming from the FSU to marry AM is miniscule - less than 1/10 of 1 per cent annually.  Yes, there are going to be exceptions, there are crazies everywhere, but I doubt it is a big issue.  What I suspect was an issue with you was the age gap.  You probably would have faced the same sorts of reactions were your wife an AW because of that.   Only the reasons would change.

I am somewhat surprised at your view of AW.  Surely, you don't think that way about your own daughter?

[ECOCKS]

I think you're right Boethius.

There was a guy who kept coming to Kyiv (8 times last I heard) looking for a wife and I was ever-amazed at his insistence that he simply "must" have a Ukrainian/Russian wife.

The interesting part was that he had three friends who had married FSUW and the women were already a little group of their own. The general impression was that the gals were not having any success finding friends and needed a fourth (maybe they played bridge?). They were insisting that they would talk with his dates on the phone as part of the selection process.

My interpretation (and not borne out by any contact except through him) was that these gals were unwelcome or at least treated coldly among the men's social circles. Based upon the descriptions of the gals (and their husbands), my belief was just what you say. The age and general attractiveness differences worried (perhaps even frightened) the local gals to the point that they didn't want their husbands even hanging around with these guys. While being different is a pretty well-understood social filter, I doubt most small groups would not be able to adjust to simpler things like handicaps, racial, most religions, etc. The FSU myths and legends, coupled with the face-to-face evidence of these guys' apparent successes, sounded very much like it was triggering fight or flight insecurities.

[Boethius]

I don't know how much of the rejection is due to attractiveness; I think that is largely in the men's imaginations.

I have no worries or insecurities about the physical beauty of younger women, and when I think of the women I know, I think that is largely the case.  Personally, I wouldn't seek them out as friends as it would be very unlikely we would have common interests.  Such a woman doesn't have children, she doesn't have the same cultural references, she wouldn't know my work world, she likely doesn't know the politics of my region, etc.  Is this closed minded?  Perhaps.  But most people aren't going to make the effort if there is not that "commonality".  It is unfortunate, but true.

[Ooooops]

Most Americans know little of the FSU. 

I think I've already told that story but here it goes again - quite a while ago I was setting up the phone connections in new apartment down South and technician - nice gentleman with Southern droll, red baseball hat and three teeth in his mouth - asked me where I was from, hearing my accent.   

I - I'm from Russia
he - No way!!!
I - Why not? 
he - But you look just like us!!!   

(not sure if it was a compliment considering the source...    )

[Daveman]

I think I've already told that story but here it goes again - quite a while ago I was setting up the phone connections in new apartment down South and technician - nice gentleman with Southern droll, red baseball hat and three teeth in his mouth - asked me where I was from, hearing my accent.   

I - I'm from Russia
he - No way!!!
I - Why not? 
he - But you look just like us!!!   

(not sure if it was a compliment considering the source...    )

LoL!! I like that one... but hey now, it's DRAWL not droll or drool!  And I'll have you know I have 4 teeth, on top and bottom!     Kinda like a mutant vampire "Haaay! I'm tha cownt Drackeler! I gohnna drank yer blud!" 

[Ooooops]

but hey now, it's DRAWL not droll or drool! 

I need to install a Southern spellchecker!   

[Gator]

LoL!! I like that one... but hey now, it's DRAWL not droll or drool! 

I need to install a Southern spellchecker!   

Ooooops, your spelling is correct because you thought the tech was drolling.

[KenC]

Well, Ken, I don't take anything on entertainment television too seriously.  Television that the masses want to watch needs to be controversial, so no matter what The View women really personally thought, of course they would say these things.  It makes for what passes as "good" television these days.  

Unfortunately, shows like the View and Oprah do influence how many AW women think, what they will read and buy.  For example, any book reccomended by Oprah instantly hits the best seller list.

The singer was partly right - what could be read was restricted in the FSU and there was no personal freedom.  I would have given her the benefit of the doubt in how she phrased that.I also doubt that most AW even have this on their radar.  The numbers of women coming from the FSU to marry AM is miniscule - less than 1/10 of 1 per cent annually.  Yes, there are going to be exceptions, there are crazies everywhere, but I doubt it is a big issue

I understand your point here but that was not the case at all.  This singer projected the thoughts that Russians were illiterate potato farmers living on communes.

The viewpoint of Russians has improved greatly over the last ten years IMO.  When Lena arrived here in '98, I told her that most Americans have a vision of RW weighing 200 lbs, with a scarf on their head, dressed in a sun dress, with some missing teeth, digging potatoes in a field because that was the picture always presented by the media here.  No sooner did I say that did we see a report on something in Russia on CNN and they ran some stock film clip of a woman like I just described only she was presenting a plate of cooked potatoes!  The influx of fsu tennis players, hockey players, actresses and high profile media types has changed the image of Russians for Americans greatly over the last ten years.  But going from a vision of the babushka potato farmer to Anna Kornikova takes time.  

.  What I suspect was an issue with you was the age gap.  You probably would have faced the same sorts of reactions were your wife an AW because of that.   Only the reasons would change.

I am sure that the age difference was a contributing factor too.

I am somewhat surprised at your view of AW.  Surely, you don't think that way about your own daughter?

 Any child is a blend of both parents.  I see that in my daughter as well as my son.  While I love my daughter to death and respect her many qualities, it doesn't mean I would seek a woman like her for my partner in life.
KenC

[Ooooops]

Ooooops, your spelling is correct because you thought the tech was drolling.