First Trip Help / Moscow in November

[logansh]

Hello all!
I am taking my first trip to Moscow next month.  Question: I had planned on flying from Moscow - Perm to visit.  She emailed and suggested that she meet me in the Airport in MOSCOW when I arrive. Meaning, she will need to travel to Moscow herself from Perm.  I have a quick itinerary: Arrive Thursday, 6PM.  Departure on Monday, 14:00hs.  There are two women I would like to visit.  One, in Perm, one in Tver.  If I travel to Perm, I am in control of arrival / departure so as to not have an unsavory moment of, "you need to go now. Thank you for meeting me at the airport when I arrived, I am off to Tver now to meet someone else."  I recall reading somewhere that it is best to meet in their home city.  I am on a crash course of learning Russian.  It would be nice to have someone at the airport but, I would feel responsable to pay for all of her travel arrangements, hotel etc.  Opinions?  Help?  From experienced members?

[Ade]

Hello all!
I am taking my first trip to Moscow next month.  Question: I had planned on flying from Moscow - Perm to visit.  She emailed and suggested that she meet me in the Airport in MOSCOW when I arrive. Meaning, she will need to travel to Moscow herself from Perm.  I have a quick itinerary: Arrive Thursday, 6PM.  Departure on Monday, 14:00hs.  There are two women I would like to visit.  One, in Perm, one in Tver.  If I travel to Perm, I am in control of arrival / departure so as to not have an unsavory moment of, "you need to go now. Thank you for meeting me at the airport when I arrived, I am off to Tver now to meet someone else."  I recall reading somewhere that it is best to meet in their home city.  I am on a crash course of learning Russian.  It would be nice to have someone at the airport but, I would feel responsable to pay for all of her travel arrangements, hotel etc.  Opinions?  Help?  From experienced members?

So are they both under the impression that you are just going to see them and no one else? There will be some here that will encourage you to lie; I'm not one of them. If you are not honest at this stage how can you possibly envisage a relationship with any of them? It's a pitfall of the WMVM methodology when you are not open and honest about what you are doing from the outset.

[I/O]

Most likely another VO vs VM debate. In essence, if one needs to ask advice on handling a VM trip then it is fair to say he is probably not fast enough on his feet (read street sharp) to pull it off without having his butt handed to him at some point.

Logansh: Looking at the geography, knowing the area a little and adding your schedule which is less than 4 days in country, you will have to be awfully slick to even meet both these ladies in their home towns for a 2 hour coffee date. You'll need to fly the Perm leg because it would be around 15-20 hours by train. You'll need to string some good connections together to fly this kite. Depending which airport you are flying into in Moscow, you may well be able to connect a flight in which case she can meet you at Perm airport. She may just be a little leary of meeting you so publically in her home town first up but if she is genuinely on the prowl, she'll get over that. FWIW, if you do meet her this way, it mightn't be the greatest idea to shove your tongue down her throat during the first 5 seconds I'd give it a minute or two so you can really get to know each other first.

I suspect you'd need a late Thursday night (Not sure if it is available) connection to Perm and a late Saturday return to Moscow if you're going to do both the dolly's. Therein, IMO is the issue. I have been convinced for more than half a decade, largely from personal experience (and the better I get to know Russians the more it hits home) that this VM thing is the most dumbarsed way of finding a life partner. Notwithstanding, there is several here who are firm supporters of the method and have met their loved one as a result. Sure, it is doable, I did it several times, but it is a total crap shoot.

[Shadow]

While I am in favour of a short trip to get to know someone the first time, I feel you are seeing Russia de size of Holland or Belgium, not as the largest geographical country in the world.
You will hardly have the time to know them, which is ok if you have follow-up trips planned at latest in December, and a disaster if you will have to save up for your next holiday some time in 2010.

You can be in control of your time in Moscow, but it will need honesty and showing a firm backbone.

[JR]

Tell them both you are meeting another lady, invite them both to Moscow. Offer to pay their expenses. Russia is too big and while the Metro system is great for getting around town the city to city trains aren't going to cut it for your schedule. The planes probably won't either. I agree with what I/O said upthread about being lucky to make a 10 minute coffee meeting with both of these ladies if you are trying to meet them in their home towns.

Bringing them to Moscow is really a good option. They would get to experience the city, something they probably don't do that often and they can be your guide. If it clicks between you and one of them you can make a second trip to their home town.

With VERY limited time in country you will be hard pressed to spend much time with either one of them. Add to that your initial jet lag plus wear and tear from the additional in coutry travel and you are going to presesnt yourself as a worn out, tired old man...not a good first impression. And you know what they say about that

[Mars]

The trip, as you have it planned, will be a waste of time and money.  The only people to benefit are those who work for the airlines, hotels, etc.

For a four day trip, pick one city that you can get to quickly, and arrange VM with ladies who live IN THAT CITY.

[XMan]

Each trip I made, regardless what I tried, took at least 2 days to recover from jet lag. 
If there is any possible way at all you can change your trip from 4 days to a minimum of 7, then I strongly recommend doing it.  Otherwise, I have to reiterate what Mars posted -- it will be a waste of time and money. 

[logansh]

Ok, I made the mistake of posting this question on "experienced" area.  I need help to understand the termionolgy of VO / VM / WM / VMWM.  What do those terms mean?

Everyone in life must justify their actions in some way or the other.

Here are my justifications for a quick trip:

1.) Not going there to play tonsil hockey.  2 hr mtg at this point is fine.  I am not going there for debauchery.
2.) Expectatons are zero or below.. anything above that will be a plus.
3.) Thanksgiving ROCKS for a trip like this... I'll be there and back quickly.  It beats a 16 hour drive for Thanksgiving dinner and after Thanksgiving Shopping that begins at 4AM.<<< Yea, I do that sort of thing.
4.) I live fairly close  LAX (1hr flight).  Direct flight LAX - SVO.  I only have one 12 hour Non-stop.
5.) Are you kidding me?  I'm a single parent 50% of the time with 2 teenagers 2 weeks at a time.  12 hr flight , 12 hr time difference? Puhleaze!!! It will be relaxing. (grin)
6.) It just so happens that I am acquainted with more  single women in Russia than where I live.  I  live in a city small enough that of the 3 eligible women in my age range, one of them is my ex.
7.)  If I can get the definitions of WMVM VO WM VM,  I think that I will go with my hunch with going to Perm'. 
8.)  I have noticed that there is a "big city" culture that exists in every country no matter where.  In order to experience  a country apart from the big city culture, I need to get out away from it. I'll go to Russia again.  It isn't a "once in a lifetime" event.  I can go again and see Moscow preferrably with someone with whom neither of us feel uncomfortable to be spending a full day with and, neither of us feel like it is a tourist / travel guide relationship.
9.)  I look at it this way as far as waste of time is concerned: If I go and I am completely  turned off by the experience, I'll end all efforts to this regard... of course after I post to this forum which has been kind enough to share with me your opinions.  Therefore, if it is a waste, I will end all efforts and time wasted on looking for, at this point, a friend, in Russia.  I do not feel any sort of "need" per se of having to find a friend in Russia, it just happens to be the place where I know more single women.  I am not seeking someon 1/2 my age either.  Well within the age range that I would expect to find a friend here, in the USA.
10.) This is a great motivator for me to practice Russian.  I'm doing what I can, I have a difficult time with the impossipble.  That is to say, when I am told that Russian is a difficult language to learn, I find that a challenge and I will rise to face itl  I can do the impossible.
11). If things go well. I'll post too..
12.)  My first responsability is to my children who I have now.  If this means seeing Russia on small trips when I can, so what?  My kids matter.... and, they are almost 18 and 16.... They won't be that age forever and, I can go more later!

[logansh]

All that writing and I didn't answer SeriouslyJaded's question:  They are both under the impression that I would like to meet them for dinner only.  4 days, 2 dinners... lots of time.

[I/O]

VO = Visit One
VM = Visit Many
WO = Write One
WM = Write Many

You figure out the combinations from there. Your theoretical trip is doable, but as I said up thread, you'll need to be mighty slick. It ain't like steppin off the Greyhound at the airport and onto a plane or vice versa, travelling in Russia is hard work whichever way you choose to spin it. Have you had a serious look at the "distance between drinks" in your plan?

[Taz]

I'll second have them meet you in Moscow option. Unfortunately that does typically violate the rule of never sending money to a woman you've never met.

Keep in mind jet lag WILL be an issue. Going West to East is much harder than the other direction. I've done this more times than I care to remember and while it affects me less than most, it still takes me about a day to get closer to whatever my norm is. I can still function well enough that most people don't even notice it but I still do. I am not wiped out or a zombie like most of my friends are but I still feel it.

Basically you have a less than a 3 day trip to do this all. You lose an entire day going over due to the time difference and the flight time. You will waste quite a bit of time just getting around Moscow as well. Definitely go with a flight to Perm rather than the train if possible. If you are lucky, you can get a flight directly out of SVO1 (you'll fly into SVO2) and it won't take you as much time to get there as if you leave out of one of the other airports.

It is a shame you won't have more time to experience what Russia has to offer. If you are also on the road the entire time getting your visa registered is going to be a bit more of an issue unless you actually stay in Moscow at a hotel long enough to get this done.

I'd again like to encourage you to have the women come meet in you in Moscow. Arrange an inexpensive hotel for each of them. If things go well you'll have more time to spend with them rather than spending it all on the road. It might give you more time to recover when you have jet lag issues. There will be an effect and it isn't always predictable to what extent it will affect you. Would you want to be at your best when you meet with these women? I can almost guarantee you they will be bringing their "A" game, why wouldn't you? The woman you meet could someday be your future wife. Why not give her the best you have to offer?

Maybe I go a bit overboard about this but if I have a layover, I actually shave and take a washbasin "bath" if my lady is going to meet me at the airport. Even if I've traveling for 20-30 hours like usual, I still try to look my best. I have an extra shirt that is packed in my backpack so it isn't wrinkled. I wear a comfortable shirt on the plane and change just before I get off the flight. A quick spritz of cologne and I am looking relatively "fresh" even if I don't feel it.

[Vaughn]

I agree four days is tight, but it is what it is. Assuming a few things like

1) They both are expecting to meet you and it's not your plan to disappoint either
2) Ms Perm has offered to travel to Moscow and Ms Tver has not
3) You WILL be weary inside from jet lag

I'd consider moving right along from Moscow to Tver, a relatively short 2 hr trainride. There are
a few evening departures that you should be able to catch even after your 6PM arrival at SVO2.
You'd arrive Tver at an awful hour but hey - book a room and sleep it off. Spend all day Friday
with your lady in Tver, and depart Saturday. Ms Perm's choo choo (a whopping 20 hours) arrives
Yaroslavskaya station at 09:57. You'll have to get back to Moscow with enough time to get from
Leningradsky station to Yaroslavskaya if you want to meet her as she steps off the train. OR - she
could fly - totally your call, but it looks like her arrival time will be far earlier (DAWN)... Yikes, are
you sure about this??

You'll have Saturday and Sunday with Ms Perm in Moscow. And no problems having to make
excuses for yourself by asking one or the other to "please leave now..." I also advise honesty,
but at the same time I encourage (and would practice) discretion of high order.

Let me offer a bit of praise for your willingness to learn some of the language, and for your
casual attitude about the purpose of this journey. It's a 4 day WTVT (write 2 visit 2) and
I see no reason to pack in any more on your agenda - except to have a great time...

Welcome to RWD -

[Shadow]

As a thought I would advise you to bring translation tools and perhaps the phone number of an interpreter. Do not rely on your Rusian alone if the ladies do not speak English.

[logansh]

All went well.  It was a VO after all.  I went to Tver only.  I enlisted the help of Tverromance for apartment, transportation, and interpretation.  It was a SHORT time.  Upon returning, difficult to sleep there, difficult to sleep upon return.  Fatigued.  But... all went well. 

[Dave13]

Tver, fun city, how's Natasha she's the manager of tverromance.

Dave