Married and Divorced in 6 Years

[bostonianindixie]

Hi Everyone, I just joined this discussion site and hopefully this will assist me in making good decisions.
I have been through this before in 1999, as I met a beautiful, young, intelligent woman from Khmelnitskiy, Ukraine. I met her on a foreign personal exchange website (not a dating website). We exchanged information about each other's country, culture and was quite interesting for me. I was very interested in how life was under the USSR and Communism. We communicated by e-mail, telephone and postal for about 6 months and then flew to Kiev from Boston. I spent over 3 weeks with her and asked her to marry me and she accepted. We were in Kiev and had her pick out a nice ring. I had assembled the neccessary documentation and had them with me, just in case things things worked out. I did everything without an attorney and she received her fiancee visa within 45 days of my arrival in Bean Town. We married in my church and investigated the process in getting her certified, as a MD. After 2 years of testing, she was certified and I supported her through the process. She then had to complete 3 years of residency @ a teaching hospital. During residency she gave birth to my son and received Citizenship of the USA. I purchased a new car for her during residency and had a Big Colonial built for us.

The Bad News!

We were married for over 6 years and all was wonderful. I even was able to bring her Mother over and had a Master Bedroom and Bath built for her.
Anyway, two weeks after residency and working as a Doctor (Family Medicine) - she told me that she wanted to be free and divorced. I was in total shock and upset over this sudden news. My son was only 2 and I had to leave my house. I am not sure what the cause was? The toll of residence on our marriage? Her Mother interfering in our family? Giving birth to our son (some women go through Depression)? Or was this her plan from the beginning (she was now a Doctor, American Citizen, Mother with her and a child)?

I love the Ukrainian Culture and thinking of trying this again? Am I nuts or what?
Oh! She was 27 when we married and I was 34 of age. I have an MBA and was retired from the US Army (medically).

Any thoughts, opinions or suggestions would be appreciated.

Stephen

[Jumper]

Sorry to hear this..

 Its just not enough info to even speculate on the root cause of her decision?
you say wonderful 6 years..and a now 2 year old boy.

I can't imagine she would have your child if it was some sinister "plan" all along..
there are far easier ways for citizenship
so i'd assume she was happy in the marriage and life situation thru a good part of your marriage..
but perhaps something changed? coul dbe a million different things..

it seems the best answers would be from her?
you guys discussed it at lenght i'd imagine?
What did she say when asked?
if she wanted divorce ,,she surely gave some reasons?

good luck in whatever path you choose..

[remiel6]

First of all, welcome to the forum. You will find several men here who have married and divorced FSUW. On this site you will find a wealth of information, some of which you may already know having been thru this process before. I am sorry to hear that things did not work out the first time, but perhaps it is never to late to try again  
Six years seems like a long time to wait for a plan. I don't know though, I don't know your ex wife so it would be too hard for me to say. I can say that she experienced a lot of changes in that time and perhaps she just changed. I don't know you were there. I would only advice that if you have placed it in your path and are ready to try it again, then I think you should by all means give it a go as they say. either way, welcome to the forum  

[Misha]

I am not sure what the cause was? The toll of residence on our marriage? Her Mother interfering in our family? Giving birth to our son (some women go through Depression)? Or was this her plan from the beginning (she was now a Doctor, American Citizen, Mother with her and a child)?

Could be all of the above and none of the above. Only she knows for sure. You would know what kind of relationship you had before and during marriage.

By the way, welcome!

[Blues Fairy]

This is mind-boggling.  You are not even sure whether or not she was depressed after giving birth?  Did you guys ever TALK during those 6 years?..

[KenC]

Bostonian,
Welcome to RWD and my heartfelt sympathy on your divorce.

Discussing a divorce is difficult as I know.  However, you only gave a "Dragnet" account of your marriage.  (Only the facts)  If you are not forthcoming with more information regarding your past relationship with your ex wife only one of two possibilities are left for us to guess.  Either you want to keep the details to yourself, which is fine but no one can really advise you on how to proceed without knowing more about how your past marriage failed.  The second possibility is that you were oblivious to what was really going on in your last marriage.  If that was indeed the case, then I suggest you stay single.
KenC

[bostonianindixie]

Hi Ken, thanks for the kind words and insight on the situation.

I loved her and did everything a husband could do, even converted from being an Episcopalian ( Church of England ) to Ukrainian Christian Orthodox. I always felt loved by her and she always thanked me for everything that I did. I can read people pretty well, as I am a seasoned interrogator and Psychophysiologist (Polygraph Examiner). I have asked her why she wanted a divorce, but she just stated she does not want to be married anymore? She never stated anything beyond this

My assessment is that her Mother's interference in our marriage was to blame. She never let Oksana be a Mother or Wife, as I discussed this with her several times. It is my fault too, as I brought her to Boston.

[Zhena]

Oh,men...
Really sorry to hear this,I feel so bad when the kids involved,especially so small kids! My own son is that age.
I tend to believe you were supportive cos I know what it takes to pass USMLE.(and she did it very fast).And a residence,for sure,is very hard.
I dont think it was a plan-as AJ said,I doubt she would have your child then.
How long the Mom lives with you? She doesnt like you? Why?

[I/O]

Six years seems like a long time to wait for a plan.

Depends how big the pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow. In this case it looks pretty big. Relocation, a child, moma moved in, education, citizenship, profession. Many the woman has humped a man much longer on a plan for much less and still ditched him at the end.

[Boethius]

I agree with I/O.  I witnessed uglier, and more manipulative marriages than this.  

Bostonian, two things -

1.  If your wife really is religious (my guess is she is not, but I'll advice based on the assumption she is), go to your priest together to discuss the break up of your marriage.  Perhaps you will gain some perspective.

2.  Hire the best family law lawyer in your city.  Get joint custody of your son.  Don't give up your house.  Your wife is a physician, perhaps she even outearns you.  If so, ask for maintenance, to the extent you can.  Your wife will not be prepared for joint custody, as it is very uncommon in Ukraine.  Do not, under any circumstances, tell her you are doing any of this.  Seek good legal advice.  If she has played you for a chump (I don't know if she has, just basing the advice on this assumption), she won't expect you to be strong.  I suspect she is relying on your goodness, which she probably sees as a weakness, to get what she wants.

Don't blame her mother.  If your wife really loved you, her mother's opinion would be irrelevant.

[kievstar]

People change and this girl was young when she married and she than went through the process of having children, school, and a good career.  What we are missing here is what you do for work and what changes you may have gone through?   You mentioned you are medically retired from the army.  Are you working now or collecting disability?  You mentioned you have an MBA but it is more what your doing with the MBA rather than the piece of paper.

Providing a car, house, etc is expected in marriage. 

The timing of her divorce is strategic if she was going to be the bread maker in the future.

[dobradavid]

I love the Ukrainian Culture and thinking of trying this again? Am I nuts or what?
Oh! She was 27 when we married and I was 34 of age. I have an MBA and was retired from the US Army (medically).

Any thoughts, opinions or suggestions would be appreciated.

Stephen

No you're not nuts. I'm a retired LTC and my first wife (from Kiev) lasted for 6 years also. My impression is that she would not have had a child if she was planning to divorce you all along. OTOH, she's now a relatively young female doctor in a target-rich environment and she's ready to "move-up" the financial food chain. There's a nice forum for divorced fathers (http://www.dadsdivorce.com/) you might want to check out.

Other considerations: Unless you are planning on having children (and kudos if you are), why consider getting married again?
Since you are retired, can/do you want to you live in an FSU country?

[dobradavid]

Bostonian,
Welcome to RWD and my heartfelt sympathy on your divorce.

Discussing a divorce is difficult as I know.  However, you only gave a "Dragnet" account of your marriage.  (Only the facts)  If you are not forthcoming with more information regarding your past relationship with your ex wife only one of two possibilities are left for us to guess.  Either you want to keep the details to yourself, which is fine but no one can really advise you on how to proceed without knowing more about how your past marriage failed.  The second possibility is that you were oblivious to what was really going on in your last marriage.  If that was indeed the case, then I suggest you stay single.
KenC

Nicely put. 

[dobradavid]

People change and this girl was young when she married and she than went through the process of having children, school, and a good career.  What we are missing here is what you do for work and what changes you may have gone through?   You mentioned you are medically retired from the army.  Are you working now or collecting disability?  You mentioned you have an MBA but it is more what your doing with the MBA rather than the piece of paper.

Providing a car, house, etc is expected in marriage. 

The timing of her divorce is strategic if she was going to be the bread maker in the future.

Nicely put. 

[Gator]

Some questions:

You met your UW ex-wife in 1999 and divorced after 6 years.  Thus, you have been single for 4 years.  You are well past your divorce. 

What did you like about your ex-wife that was unique to her being a UW?

What has been your recent history with AW?

Why will this time be better?

Your story has been told a million times.  A wife supports her husband while he goes to med school.  After years of living on small budget, the husband finally becomes a licensed physician, and he soon wants a divorce to marry his cute and young nurse.  The judge orders the doctor to pay a large alimony to the ex-wife.  Your case was different only in that  your wife was the doctor and you were the one who supported her while she completed her studies.  So where is your alimony?  Why did you lose your house?  So why would you ever wish to marry again?

I am serious about these questions?  I am not trying to humiliate you but to do some soul searching.

   

[Zhena]

Its a pity an author doesnt write anymore..

People change and this girl was young when she married and she than went through the process of having children, school, and a good career.  What we are missing here is what you do for work and what changes you may have gone through? 

He brought her in this country and supported her while studying. Paid for her exams. Another husband could not do all this.

[Providing a car, house, etc is expected in marriage. 

Of course,every husband builds a new big house for his wife and gives her a nice new car. That is all for granted.

The timing of her divorce is strategic if she was going to be the bread maker in the future.

Yes,a woman at any obstacle cant be a bread maker,right? And if her income happened to be bigger than her husbands,she has to divorce him immediately despite of what he did to support her on the way to the sky and despite of the kids they have. I dont wish that to any guy on here.

[I/O]

I dont wish that to any guy on here.

Trust me, neither do I, nor do I aspire to being on the wrong end of such action, BUT................unfortunately it is the way of many modern women and if anyone thinks because she comes from Russia (or other FSU location) she will be any different necessarily, they are very much mistaken. I've seen more than a goodly number of RW (in Russia) trade up, trade sideways and trade out as it suits them to do so. I can't imagine why 100% of those who marry a foreigner and move abroad should be any different.

Oh, I almost forgot, they wouldn't do such things because they are all traditional and family oriented. Just read any of the websites, they'll tell you.

[Zhena]

[unfortunately it is the way of many modern women

Its not cos they are modern,but cos they selfish and immoral. I always try not to judge,but when a woman divorces only cos she thinks a husband not her size anymore cos she has such a cool career(and before he was fine-when she needed him) and she doesnt care about the kids feelings (a divorce afffects any kids psycho)-then sorry,I am disgusted by this.
I also thought that his disability could be an issue-but when they married,he had it already and it was fine....

[bostonianindixie]

Hello Everyone:

I appreciate all the kind and thoughtful comments, advice and information. I am retired due to an injury to my right knee, so my knee pops out of joint ever so often. I guess the term is disabled and I receive a pension and benefits since leaving the Army in 1994. I was retired at the rank of Sgt. First Class, but still work and have since leaving the military. Good to meet you LTC and hope you are doing well.
I am now a Private Consultant on Security Matters, as well as other related items. I did get the house, but she lived there until the divorce was over. I have joint custody and my child support is fairly low for Massachusetts standards (the spouse that has custody and makes over 100,000 has child support greatle reduced).
I was offered allimoney, but as a man I could not accept this. Too much honor and pride!
I got along with her Mother, so everything is a mystery to me.
Oksana would never go against her Mother and vice versa, so that I believe was a big part of it.
I also saw my former wife change about three months before she finished residency.
She was getting quite arrogant and condecending and almost like the ugly American.
I see some Immigrants get into a position and start thinking they are better than others and worse than born Americans.

I think everyone was right to a certain degree in response to my writing. The one to truly suffer is my son;  who now is asking his mother about the seperation! He asks me too and is tough on me, as my own Mother divorced my father when I was five.

Thank you!

Stephen / Stepan

[Daveman]

Hello Everyone:

I appreciate all the kind and thoughtful comments, advice and information. I am retired due to an injury to my right knee, so my knee pops out of joint ever so often. I guess the term is disabled and I receive a pension and benefits since leaving the Army in 1994. I was retired at the rank of Sgt. First Class, but still work and have since leaving the military. Good to meet you LTC and hope you are doing well.
I am now a Private Consultant on Security Matters, as well as other related items. I did get the house, but she lived there until the divorce was over. I have joint custody and my child support is fairly low for Massachusetts standards (the spouse that has custody and makes over 100,000 has child support greatle reduced).
I was offered allimoney, but as a man I could not accept this. Too much honor and pride!
I got along with her Mother, so everything is a mystery to me.
Oksana would never go against her Mother and vice versa, so that I believe was a big part of it.
I also saw my former wife change about three months before she finished residency.
She was getting quite arrogant and condecending and almost like the ugly American.
I see some Immigrants get into a position and start thinking they are better than others and worse than born Americans.

I think everyone was right to a certain degree in response to my writing. The one to truly suffer is my son;  who now is asking his mother about the seperation! He asks me too and is tough on me, as my own Mother divorced my father when I was five.

Thank you!

Stephen / Stepan

Just a thought which may or may not apply to your case.  I have never seen, as a group, a more "status" oriented group than Russians/Ukrainians. Yeah, some Americans have it bad, but, as your lady drew near to the end of her residency, she was about to enter a new world of "status" of which her vision does not include the "SFC" who took her there (I understand you have an MBA, but I really wonder how much better than you she thinks she is at this point).

This is just a gut feeling from what you wrote.  That status thing (including status symbols -- cars, house, as well as husbands) is something they crave like little kids on a playground wanting to have the best toys.

Anyway, I'm very sorry you went through that, and also very very sorry for your son.   I too can't imagine that this was her plan from the start, but rather after she began to see the light at the end of the tunnel, that status and prestige thing just didn't include you.  I hope I'm absolutely wrong, but there are some complete status junkies out there for sure.

Good luck,
Dave

[XMan]

I am heartily sorry to read this.  
Would that I had advice to give.  I hardly know whether I would ever try again, were I in your situation.  

So what is the lesson here?  
Trust no one?  (Where is Fox Mulder when you need him.)  

Regardless, if that is the mantra, it is less than comforting.

If anyone is looking for the truth behind the mythical "man who won't commit," seek no further.
No wonder a large percentage of men fear marriage.  
It's rather disheartening for even the most romantically inclined of the true believers.

[remiel6]

Dave - some excellent points. The key question would be how to find and identify them before you marry them. Traits like the one you mention are not things that just happen to a person. It is something that I believe is always there. Therefore, there has to be something a person says or does that gives you a clue that this perhaps dormant trait lies in wait.
On the other hand, I cannot speak of medical school or residency, but I can say this. As the age gap debate rolled on a question popped into my mind and as I read this story it popped into my mind again. What do all of these have in common, I mean the marriages.
Ages, no, the one thing they all have in common is all the failed marriages discussed involved a person, usually a woman, moving do a different culture far from her home. In the case of this posters wife there is also a residency and a very prestigious proffession as well. My point is this, if anyone on this forum and some have done this, lived in an alien culture where they struggled with the language for years maybe and told me that 3 years after they left they would be the same person they were before I would call them a liar. no one goes thru medical school or law school (this I know about)without it affecting who you are as a person, sometimes in good, and sometimes in not good ways. No one moves to another country without it changing who they are in some small way. Perhaps these changes are the root of why the relationship did not work.

[philb]

Just a thought which may or may not apply to your case.  I have never seen, as a group, a more "status" oriented group than Russians/Ukrainians. Yeah, some Americans have it bad, but, as your lady drew near to the end of her residency, she was about to enter a new world of "status" of which her vision does not include the "SFC" who took her there (I understand you have an MBA, but I really wonder how much better than you she thinks she is at this point).

This is just a gut feeling from what you wrote.  That status thing (including status symbols -- cars, house, as well as husbands) is something they crave like little kids on a playground wanting to have the best toys.

Dave, I agree you have made an excellent point.  One of our members (wmgo) made some excellent posts in regards to this back in the PL days.  Allow me to make a couple of more generalizations along these lines.  Do the FSU women who are looking for a relationship with a WM tend to display this characteristic more so than other FSU women?  In addition,  I wonder to what extent the age of the woman comes into play?

Just a couple of thoughts.

[krimster]

if your prognosis is grim, don't answer the doorbell
chances are it won't be Avon calling

[Gator]

No one moves to another country without it changing who they are in some small way. Perhaps these changes are the root of why the relationship did not work.

True, it affects RW and they change.  However, it is not the reason for a failed relationship because there are many, many happily married RW who came to America and chose not to leave their AM husbands.

IMO, the reasons for divorce between AM and RW are the same as discussed ad nauseam in relationship books.

Every woman changes (they call it "growing"  ) without having to move.  Considering the typical age disparity, one should expect a young RW wife to change a lot. 

BostonDixie's wife was not that much younger than him, yet she entered a new stage in life - advancing from being dependent on her husband to being independent of her husband.   What amazes me is that she was in her child rearing stage as well , and did not feel the need for a functioning, nuclear family.  Were her die already cast before she met BostonDixie?  Much of who we are comes from the genes we inherited and the experiences of our youth.