cultural difference question

[bigdeg]

 A question has come into my mind about a difference in my way of thinking vs. UW perception of "normal" AM. This has to do with my financial lifestyle. The lady I have been talking with (skype,phone) understands what I am saying, But knows 2 UW/AM couples, and I dint know if she thinks I am telling the truth.
 I have not been to see her yet, it is difficult now mainly due to my employers being really nervous over "cap and trade"
 The problem is: I dint operate on credit. I am 39 years old and do not own a house, (don't have a house payment either). Don't believe in credit cards. I do own 5 acres in central W.V. but it is more like a camping/fishing spot, very hard to build there. I told the girl I am talking with that I will buy a house or build one after a couple of years. I own 2 cars, 1 is a 30 y.o. "project", 1 is a 15 y.o. chevy that "will not break down".
I have read and agree with "not leading with your wallet", tried not to, but heres the basics of our conversations:
 
 Me:I do not need my wife to work, I am not rich but have good job.
 Her: What kind of house do you own?
 Me: I rent an apartment, it is nice.
 Her: If you can't afford a house, how will you provide for me?
 Me: I have a good job and money in the bank.
 Her: What kind of car do you have?
 Me: I have two old cars.
 Her: Why do you not get a new one, if you have money in the bank?

 You get the point...How do I explain this to a woman who's girlfriends have both came here on K-1's to very nice houses, but also very big payments?

[groovlstk]

Bigdeg, do you plan to buy a house in the future with cash? If you don't have a credit rating it will be extemely difficult to get financing.

Explaining Western financial strategies to Ukrainian and Russian people is a project in itself. It seems to me she's vetting you to make sure you can provide the basics, nothing wrong w/that but getting into specifics (such as saying you'll buy a home on credit, like 99% of us) may open up even more insecurities. And explaining that in some situations it's better to rent than own a home... (because in some situations it certainly is)? Good luck with that one!

My wife and I have been married for almost 3 years now and we've never had an argument about $$. Part of this I attribute to education, as we talked endlessly about our financial expectations and goals as a family. But I would have never discussed specifics after a few introductory emails.

[bigdeg]

 Groovsltk,
 I did try not to "lead with my wallet". But her knowing a 2 UW/WM couples made it difficult.
 Yes, I do either plan on buying or building a house with cash, I am going to wait for a couple years though because I will decide on relocating in 2012.
 FWIW, I rank probably in the middle on income, but I am frugal, and save a LOT in interest on everything.

[groovlstk]

Groovsltk,
 I did try not to "lead with my wallet". But her knowing a 2 UW/WM couples made it difficult.

I know that, it seems to me you're doing the opposite and outside of understanding the big picture where she can feel secure knowing you're not living in poverty and can give her a decent life, it's really not her business at this point in your relationship.

There's always the danger that she's so concerned with status that she'll constantly compare your living standard to that of her friends'. My wife and I have a few friends like that - women who receive gifts of jewelry from their BFs and withold an opinion about it until they can determine how much it cost.  But you should be able to pick up on this as you get to know her better.

[bigdeg]

Thanks for your input. I will do what i can to just let her know that my family will be provided for. She said last night how one of her girlfriends husband has a huge brand new house that he got on credit. She did not know what to think when I said I did not buy things on credit...
 If she brings it up again, I will just not answer her, beyond "my family will have a good life and be provided for".

[Mars]

I am 39 years old and do not own a house, (don't have a house payment either).

I have heard other men here make this point as if it is a positive - - - the part about not having a house payment.
Without home ownership, you have a rent payment which is somewhere in the ballpark of a house payment - - - right?

But in general, you are facing what has been talked about in other threads.  The FSUW are (in general) extremely status conscious.  That makes it a tough row to hoe for many WM and moreso for someone (like yourself) who seems to do things a little differently.

[ECOCKS]

My take was that you have the cart before the horse.

After you meet is the time to place this item on a discussion timetable. In the meantime, you should consider how you will prove your assertion that your family will be provided for in the future.

Trying to jump from her questions about how you will "take care of her" into a lesson on your (arguable) views on credit versus cash, tax ramifications, retirement systems, survivors' benefits and so on, is a discussion that doesn't really lend itself well to Skype or email. Gaining a better idea of the particulars in her life situation will be a plus for helping you figure out how to approach this as well.

[Gator]

Bigdeg,

Explain it in a way that shows that you are clever not frugal.  Many RW think frugal men are greedy, which is the "kiss of death."

Explain that a couple of years ago you were thinking about buying a house yet you read many reports and came to the conclusion that the economy would suffer a recession.  Housing prices would decline.  You have saved your money and now you are ready to buy and take advantage of not only the lower prices but government subsidies.

Regarding old cars, explain that you do not like putting money into depreciating assets.  However, you are thinking about upgrading.

[boaterguy]

Yikes! My take on that conversation is that she is a material girl.

[GQBlues]

I have read and agree with "not leading with your wallet", tried not to, but heres the basics of our conversations:
 
 Me:I do not need my wife to work, I am not rich but have good job.
 Her: What kind of house do you own?
 Me: I rent an apartment, it is nice.
 Her: If you can't afford a house, how will you provide for me?
 Me: I have a good job and money in the bank.
 Her: What kind of car do you have?
 Me: I have two old cars.
 Her: Why do you not get a new one, if you have money in the bank?

 You get the point...How do I explain this to a woman who's girlfriends have both came here on K-1's to very nice houses, but also very big payments?

You can't. Not specially if she's got friends already in the US telling her about their respective situations which obviously is running counter to yours.

It's just me but I do not like the line of questioning above. I'm not saying she doesn't have a right to ask and know because she does, but it was seeded as a result of her friend's influences. Hovers too closely to the keeping up with the Joneses syndrome to me.

[Shadow]

The question is, would you be prepared to take your money out of the bank and buy a new car and a big house if your wife would want it ?

[bigdeg]

The question is, would you be prepared to take your money out of the bank and buy a new car and a big house if your wife would want it ?

Yes, that is the point, I can (not that I will) go buy my family what ever is needed (house,car,whatever). The main reason I have not bought/built a house before now, is a possible job change in two years.

 As for her questions...I agree that she should be asking something (it became more complicated because of her friends). I want to answer honestly but also to only provide a short answer.

 I will go with Gator on this one (well I'll try).

[bigdeg]

" I can (not that I will)"
 That came out wrong...I am generous...she can see that. I am trying to put her mind at ease because I can tell that she does not understand it, but she does not push me on it either. I do not think she is a gold-digger, or even wants to "keep up with the Jones". She is just being a woman.

[ECOCKS]

Well, best of luck to you.

[remiel6]

My concern with this line of questioning is that I see it as a red flag. Not that she's a bad person or scammer or anything like that. My worry is that someone who is asking these questions before they really know someone seems more concerned with the house and the car than they do with the person who is paying for them. Maybe I'm wrong, but how many converastions have you had with this person? My belief is that such people can never be satisfied, so let someone else try I have have better things to do.

[Boethius]

It is not necessarily a red flag.  Generally, from a cultural perspective, Ukrainian men don't marry if they can't afford to support a family.  Women there read stories of foreign men who come, marry them, but can't support their spouse.  And, she is stuck in a foreign country, with no support systems, likely no language skills, and limited employment opportunities.  They also are aware of the economic challenges currently.

Why should she waste her time with a man who can't support her?

[possum]

And, she is stuck in a foreign country, with no support systems, likely no language skills, and limited employment opportunities. 

There are ways to avoid that.. If an FSUW is concerned about her skills being insufficient she can work on them before starting her search for a foreign husband.. A lack of desire to do so could indicate an overly dependent personality, or it could simply be a sign of desperation or laziness on her part, neither of which is helpful in this endeavor..

They also are aware of the economic challenges currently.

Then they should understand that this is not the time to be picky..

[Misha]

Generally, from a cultural perspective, Ukrainian men don't marry if they can't afford to support a family.

Can't speak of Ukraine, but there are many RM who marry and can't support a family as many young couples end up moving in with one set of parents or another. Many marry when they are both students and the men can't really afford to support a family at that stage of their lives.

[Faux Pas]

My concern with this line of questioning is that I see it as a red flag. Not that she's a bad person or scammer or anything like that. My worry is that someone who is asking these questions before they really know someone seems more concerned with the house and the car than they do with the person who is paying for them. Maybe I'm wrong, but how many converastions have you had with this person? My belief is that such people can never be satisfied, so let someone else try I have have better things to do.

Not really. This lady is doing the same thing that many men looking to the East do. Qualifying her prospect. She is only doing it with a more direct line of questioning about matters you consider of a more private nature where she may feel those are honest upfront questions. If you do not meet her minimum standards, she likely wouldn't waste anymore time on you. IMO, most of these women aren't looking for a pen pal.

[remiel6]

I see it as a red flag because if you don't like and want to spend time with the man it should not matter how much money he makes. Yes there may be a time for such questions, but I would personally want my potential mate to be more interested in spending time with me than asking about the value of my car and home? I understand needing to make sure that the man who you live with can support you, but if you don't like him does it really matter?

[ECOCKS]

Any that are this cold about "qualifying" the guy should go apply at Citicorp as a mortgage or credit card application processor.

Seriously, establishing that there is the potential for love and a longterm relationship seems to come before checking his balance sheet, D&B rating, Equifax scoring or P&L statements. What if she demands an outside auditor ( )?

They haven't met yet so I see this question as inappropriate and a glaringly large red flag. I was always suspicious of the guys who carried around a photo album of their house, cars, washing machine, kitchen, dryer, etc. while professing to be in search of a traditional woman with more simple tastes and expectations. If my wife had begun asking me things like this back when I was dating, I would have moved on quickly since she would not have been seriously looking for a relationship IMO.

[Faux Pas]

Any that are this cold about "qualifying" the guy should go apply at Citicorp as a mortgage or credit card application processor.

Seriously, establishing that there is the potential for love and a longterm relationship seems to come before checking his balance sheet, D&B rating, Equifax scoring or P&L statements. What if she demands an outside auditor ( )?

They haven't met yet so I see this question as inappropriate and a glaringly large red flag. I was always suspicious of the guys who carried around a photo album of their house, cars, washing machine, kitchen, dryer, etc. while professing to be in search of a traditional woman with more simple tastes and expectations. If my wife had begun asking me things like this back when I was dating, I would have moved on quickly since she would not have been seriously looking for a relationship IMO.

Ed would you agree that most men have already "pre-qualified" the women by age, hair color, weight, bust measurement and body size? I see the lady's line of questioning as prudent. Perhaps too early but maybe her directness is what's needed. They guy owns no house and a couple of antique wheels and has no credit. A treasure chest of gold is a little difficult to verify. She should be concerned about his financial status before becoming too emotionally involved. It's just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one.

[ECOCKS]

Couldn't say since I marked my comment as "IMO" so everyone's mileage certainly varies. My pre-qualifications were based on scanning an age group, location and language ability. Think I added in things like theater and travel a few times also. Things like bust size, other measurements, hair color, education, job title, etc. didn't come into play from my side, ever. My profile is bordering on 100% of capacity so they had plenty to choose from in scanning for me, so maybe I missed some possibly great women or rather, they missed me. Then again, maybe not, from both sides.

Of course, I see where you are going. Finances are just one criteria they may choose to apply. You're certainly correct since they have the ability to search by income level. However, I don't think it's appropriate to qualify based upon finances. I don't/didn't and was uninterested in any who do. It just doesn't sound like a potential romantic or, if you prefer, loving relationship.

Guess I am just an incurable romantic...

[bigdeg]

 O.k.,
 I thank all of you that replied, I got some insightful comments. My original post was a question that was answered. I think Gator's post will be what I use, because this was a "what's the best way to do this" question, not a "is she a scammer question".Most insightful Gator.
 In my opinion, after talking on phone, skype,e-mail (and we have a lot of laughs because her English is only about half, my Russian is very beginner), for a couple months, I reject that this is a red flag. With things that I do differently and with what her friends have told her, she SHOULD ask these sort of questions. After all, she is contemplating the idea of leaving her job, her family, her whole life (at least temporarily). I think it is good that she has the sense to ask about me. From what she has said to me, she is more worried about children (if it happens), than herself.
 Anyway, thanks to all,
Dale

[mies]

You get the point...How do I explain this to a woman who's girlfriends have both came here on K-1's to very nice houses, but also very big payments?

The mortgage payments on houses are quire irrelevant if these two men are able to pay them.
Bottom line for a woman coming to USA and not working - if she comes to you - she will live in the apartment, while her female friends live in big houses. In both cases women don't have to work or pay anything, but in one case they will have a nicer house. In both cases men are providing the dwelling. You can provide smaller dwelling, these other two men can provide larger dwelling.
The woman with whom you communicate openly tells you that she wants a man who can provide her better. Don't try to present it such as she is misinformed or stupid and do not understand US reality.
On the other hand - I do not see why you need to justify your lifestyle, income, etc to a woman you never met in life. Or to any other woman. Is she such a good catch? Is she rich? Has she earned anything in her life herself?

In any case - if she thinks your income isn't enough as per her aspirations - she's free to look for a better provider, don't you think so?
If she can't find a better provider - that's her problem again. Not yours. But don't try to fool her - tell her what you will be able to provide your wife with, and what is beyond your budget.