Meeting with a Pro-Dater. My Story.

[Sculpto]

Bad weekend Ken? 

Even though I agree with you.. dude.. your presentation is AWFUL. 

[KenC]

Bad weekend Ken? 

Even though I agree with you.. dude.. your presentation is AWFUL. 

Not really.  Having a difficult time understanding how someone could be so out of touch with reality.  I half suspect this is a troll.

[I/O]

we would have to find something else to do cuz they would be no more trainwrecks to gawk at

Methinks the military man was speakin' another line.

10 years of marriage to a RW plus having written 10,000 posts places you at the pinnacle of experience.

[Miss FSU]

In my experience it is different.

Of course it is, as you advertise your service here There are no pro-daters in Odessa at all, we all know this

Of course I am interested in prodating as most of the girls who use interpriters are prodaters, no- prodaters- no jobs for interpriters, simply as that



Now I think you are pulling our leg.  The possibility of prodaters should not create a need for terps.   How would we know that the terps are not in cahoots with the prodaters? 

I would think we need a terp because we do not speak Russian and the woman does not speak English.

I worked with few agencies and I can definetely say that about 80% of the most popular girls there are pro-daters of some sort and level. Most of the men choose the same model-looking ones. if there were no such girls, no one would date those men, some of them wouldn't be interesting even for my mother-hence not work for terps.

 Of course women of their age with children would be interested, but the thing is that most of the foriegn men are not into so trivial dating, they need a fairytale come true. So it comes true for a short perioud.

BTW, Miss FSU has probably seen it all as a terp, but doesn't mean she condoned the actions or didn't try to help some of the victims.

I didn't try to help any victims, but also didn't try to help pro-daters. If gal invites man to do some shopping on the first date, he thinks it's normal and buys everything she asks, why should I interfer?

On the other hand if  the girl asked me to confirm that international passport costs 500 usd, I did't do it neither.

[Miss FSU]

Then again I did the controversial WMVM trip, and I don’t think a prodater had a chance compared to the genuine sweetness of good-hearted RW.  Sneaked that one in for you – another reason to go WMVM.

I must tell you that real PRO-daters are more genuine and good-hearted then real ones So you'll never know who did you actually dated By the way the line bitwean pro-dater and not pro-dater is also very fuzzzy. She can be pro-dater for old and dump guy but have real interest in someone more attractive.

I've just read the authors report in romancescam and investigated that forum's policy. Oh my gosh, those people seem to have no privat life at all, I am surprise with women especially

It seems that our trueth-fighter already recruited by them, he even reported there one of my posts, as a suspicious element. Big brother is watching on me

[I/O]

I must tell you that real PRO-daters are more genuine and good-hearted then real ones So you'll never know who did you actually dated By the way the line bitwean pro-dater and not pro-dater is also very fuzzzy.

The more I read of this poster the more the views reflect my own observations. Cast me with Gator and JR as I also see value in this thread. 

[GlobalEuphoria]

  HandyCam.... much respect to you for being honest. If half these people on here were honest, at least with themselves they'd be relaxing at home with a loved one and not looking thousands of miles away trying to escape reality.

  You got scammed... it happens... you're pretty honest about it and you seem to have your head about you. Hopefully you've now learned from this experience and you'll find someone who is real about their feelings and their desire to find a western man. Good luck with your search and use this knowledge you have from your experience(s) and the others who have posted here about their experiences. Knowledge is power my friend.

   .... and from the looks of this thread, I think you owe someone a few quid for the argument you were seeking

[Gator]

I worked with few agencies and I can definetely say that about 80% of the most popular girls there are pro-daters of some sort and level. Most of the men choose the same model-looking ones. if there were no such girls, no one would date those men, some of them wouldn't be interesting even for my mother-hence not work for terps.

....most of the foriegn men .... need a fairytale come true. So it comes true for a short perioud.

Amazing statement; however, I have no evidence to contradict your opinion, so let us assume it is true.

What is the age range of the most popular girls? 

I ask because somehow I did not bump into the pro-daters.  Is that because of age, as I dated women in their 30s and 40s?  Also, 90% of my dates had children - these women received less attention and  I do not see children as a detriment (unless they were a monster).   

[Gator]

I didn't try to help any victims, but also didn't try to help pro-daters. If gal invites man to do some shopping on the first date, he thinks it's normal and buys everything she asks, why should I interfer?

If you volunteered to a man that a woman was using him, he might say something to the agency and the agency would become upset with you.  This is what we term in the business world as conflict of interest. 

The men were paying for your services (either directly or indirectly through the agency).   What if a man asked for your opinions regarding a particular woman?  Did you answer directly and truthfully, say "No comment,"  or  finesse the question?   The few times I used an interpreter I asked the terp a lot of questions about a woman after the meeting had concluded.  I found their opinions very helpful.

[Miss FSU]

Gator your approach seems to be totally realistic and reasonable, I don't know how old are you but it  seems that you dated the women close to your age group. That's the reason why you actually succeed.
The most popular girls are model-looking blondies of 21-30 yo

Unfortunately, not many men realis this.
I wanted to add that I was interpriter, not matchmaker- hence no comments on any girls. Those men were totally adult to decide for themselves. Those who had no problems with IQ didn't get involved with any sorts of prodating, unfortunately there was very small % of those anyways

[Jumper]

Gator your approach seems to be totally realistic and reasonable, I don't know how old are you but it  seems that you dated the women close to your age group. That's the reason why you actually succeed.
The most popular girls are model-looking blondies of 21-30 yo

Unfortunately, not many men realis this.
I wanted to add that I was interpriter, not matchmaker- hence no comments on any girls. Those men were totally adult to decide for themselves. Those who had no problems with IQ didn't get involved with any sorts of prodating, unfortunately there was very small % of those anyways

MissFSU, good posts..


I would completely agree that  a true or accomplished *pro* dater..many men would never know.
 (certainly the ones with eyes not wide open,who are in the most vunerable situation) .

 I would also say that a large percentage of "pro daters" would certainly do so to men they are not truly interested in,
as its easy way to get things, and why not? it can be enjoyable..
but they are single women,, and if they came across a man local or foriegn , someone they found attractive and interesting
it would be dating as usual..(or as usual as it could be in such a scenerio)
so the line can be a very grey area.

and its a very broad area of grey ?
as there's also the girl that the agency will call to meet a guy,,and they will pay her a small some,,or maybe she gets an extra taxi fee.
she may have absolutely no interest in the guy,or yet she may find that she does....
but hasnt asked for gifts or anything ,just went on a date (which she was compensated slightly for) with what might or  might not
be an interesting person for her to only chat with.. but there is the possibilty maybe become involved with.
If a man is going thru agencies in the FSU,, to expect complete utter innocence in all dealings is funny at best (to me)


ok- This was many awhile ago ..
but i will admit , i guess i have a low I/Q   
as i did meet a couple of pro daters. I think i relayed the stories but it was 8 or 10 years ago now?
In my defense ,it was intentional, i was killing time,
and i was fairly certain they were prodaters  before meeting them,,
(they were top banner ad girls,probably still recognizable to many,  listed for a long time and had been *availilble*long term )
 
It  was more out of curiosity,to see if they existed (as single women) and how they would act/behave.
 In these cases as  soon as it became more clear we kind of knew each others "situation" or outlook..
and that the "gig" was up.. it was kind of fun. Some of course where not interested,  others actually were very.
It should be noted i dated english speakers,,so no interpreter..
and i certainly dint lose my wallet or regret going out , as it was my decision to see them in the first place.
just like dating some material girl locally for fun.
I knew it was a waste of time in the sense of looking for "marriage" but it was interesting to me,
i wasnt on some schedule to get *married*   and it was always during a time frame "in country"
when i had no sincere person to see at the time. 
(i guess another  side note is a lived /worked in Esastern europe for awhile,so i had close travel, time, and sometimes a days time to kill before going to some given city for work)
After meeting a couple, i bored of it ,and of course would rather date someone more genuine ,
which wasnt hard to find, or recognize, at that time.

i've no idea how things are now..???
 
back then ,even with the "grey" areas ,
 it was pretty easy to sort out what was going on with someone you had interest in,
 or if they had  a genuine interest in you.   

it was also  easy to find the situation decribed my the OP,
 and easy to see it and avoid it. (in this case it wasn't a grey area )
 

[valence]

All totally interesting.  HandyCam, I apologize for having assumed you were American and therefore 10+ timezones away from your lady instead of a mere 4+ timezones away.  Who knows?  Perhaps 6 timezones makes all the difference in the world?

As a matter of adjacent interest to those following this thread, I am befriending said pro-dater in Face Book.  Also the so-called 'scammer' who got reported by the lunatic Dutchman who was here a few weeks back and whose thread got deleted.  Adding them to my FB friends; inviting them to be my neighbors in Farmville (for those familiar with FB's networking game).  Also, I'm interested in their side of the story. 

Miss FSU, if you're on FB, you're quite welcome also!

[KenC]

What is the definition of a "pro-dater?"
It may be interesting in where the lines are drawn here in everyone's mind.

Is any woman that accepts gifts from a man whom she is not interested in marrying, a pro-dater?  Or is it only if she requests the gifts?  How interested in marrying the man must the woman be to NOT be considered a pro-dater?  What if the woman is just open to the possibility of marriage to the man, but he insists on showering her with his material gifts?  Is the woman a pro-dater if she genuinely enjoys the attention (and gifts) offered by a man but has no intentions of marriage?  If a woman is honest in informing the man of her lack of interest in him for the long term and he still persists in being overly generous, is she a pro-dater?  If a woman is listed with a marriage agency and is very popular with many different generous suitors, does that automatically make her a pro-dater?

I am of the opinion that most "pro-daters" are made or developed because of the shear amount of foolish foreign men more than willing to let their wallets do their bidding for the woman's attention.  The mentality of the men's thoughts on Mail Order Brides taints their "game" much more than even they realize.  Maybe the men lack self confidence and over compensate with materialistic gifts and fine dinning and glamorous vacations.  Who's really to blame in this situation?  The "giver" or the "taker?"

It is all not so black and white.  If a man allows his date to choose the restaurant, does he then have the right to complain about the expense?  Is the woman bad for setting her sights too high for a man she knows little about?  What if the woman is used to a much higher lifestyle than the new man seeking her out?  Is the woman to be faulted for arranging transportation, guided tours and other activities that are a financial stretch for the man when he is too lazy, too inexperienced or too timid to do anything different?  What is a woman to think if the man never says "no?"

In the opening post, there is no doubt that the girl in question stepped over the line more than a few times.  Like when she tried to play Handyscam for a new phone or the yacht rental, which IIRC, were the only times he said "no" and also "not again" with regard to the original restaurant.  But other than those times, he accepted the hand being dealt to him by a spoiled young girl.  He could have taken charge and handled the situation while it was in progress instead of complaining about it after the fact.
KenC

[BillyB]

What is the definition of a "pro-dater?"

It's pretty much a person who has experience in dating and plays another person's emotions for personal gain. People searching for love are easy prey.

Is any woman that accepts gifts from a man whom she is not interested in marrying, a pro-dater?  Or is it only if she requests the gifts?

If she accepts gifts when she knows she has not romantic intererst in a man, she is a pro dater unless she told the man that they will never be more than friends. If the man is told that and he continues to give gifts, then she is not a pro dater just because she accepted them. Most scammers do not ask for money. They simply lead men to believe they have a chance for romance with them and then speak about problems in their life that are solved with money. Although they never asked for money, they are still scammers. A pro dater doesn't need to ask for money to still be labeled a pro dater. She just needs to have insincere motivations to separate a man from his wallet. The label of "pro dater" is earned by a women alone, not by the men who gives her gifts.

I am of the opinion that most "pro-daters" are made or developed because of the shear amount of foolish foreign men more than willing to let their wallets do their bidding for the woman's attention.

I've spent enough time on dating sites where RW are focused only on finding a RM, not a foreign man. When asking RW, especially in the big cities "what are the responsibilities of a man in a relationship, some say "financial help and support" even in the early stages of the dating phase. Foreign men are not alone when dealing with women who need tons of financial support to keep them happy and in style. One RW interpreter a few months ago sais RW test their man to see if they will spend all their money on her to prove their love for her. When he runs out of money and is poor, they determine he is not the man for her. The good news is their are many good RW out there that have pride and dignity and don't need your money but only care about you as a person.

It is all not so black and white.  If a man allows his date to choose the restaurant, does he then have the right to complain about the expense?

A man absolutely has the right to complain and judge who he's dealing with. The first date is a time in getting to know each other. If a woman respected a man's money and treated it as her own, she would try to choose a place that is within reason of what the man can afford. If she's a low class slut living in a trailer park on welfare, she's not going to convince me $400 dinner dates is a normal way of life for her.  Some men going to the FSU have been taken for $400+ dinner dates they can't afford. It's best they excuse themselves and tell that woman he can't afford that kind of dinner. If she dumps him, so be it. Better sooner than later because he will run out of money at that pace withing days anyway. A woman taking a man to a first date $400 dinner is about as classy as a man asking for sex before dinner.

[Jumper]

KenC-
I totally agree there are so many shades of gray ...

and to be honest none of that,while there,  really bothered me,,
I felt i was either quick on my feet enough to be aware of it,or not,
either way it was my choices. The same things can happen in any country.People take advantage of other people.it happens.

 I can tell you my diffinition of a true pro dater was /and is, pretty black /white.
a woman who intentionally misleads romantically short term ,or long term ,
simply for material gain.
perhaps makes a nice living at it.
I knew of some certainly back than that did so at that time,and did not have any ptroblerm admitting ut or justiufyiung it.
Interesting perspectives and women. I make no judgements, not my cup of tea,
but they likely went on to the same  general successes in life and in marriage as anyone else?

it seemed to me in the  FSU the moral boundries of acceptence are somewhat  stretched.(as a generality)
If you see someone successful, its just a good of chance they became that way thru less than high regard for thier fellow man,
or truly fair business practice,  and that would be looked upon as "clever".

So in the context ,some young pretty girl making some extra gifts, or taxi fare,  off the generosity of a silly foriegner
,she is just not going to always be viewed as some morally bankrupt individual by the general populace.
some yes,, but many would just think "ah well ?she's getting by?"
More a shrug,  and "well the dorock, should have known better"

the board often shares that mentality?



as far as the many shades of grey
they are exactly that,grey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  the individuals involved have to figure out.
this certainly isnt retained to just dating.. ? As there are plenty of marriages,
 both domestic or cross cultural, that certainly fall into that grey area..of matrialism/companionship vs true love?


 

[KenC]

a person who has experience in dating and plays another person's emotions for personal gain.

Billy,
Pretty good answer IMO.  But doesn't the lack of sincerity cement the issue?  And isn't the only person truly aware of their sincerity, the person themself?  And wouldn't there have to be 100% "no chance" for a woman to be guilty?

I also found your answer to the restaurant portion interesting based on your post in the other thread regarding your dates choice of places to eat.

A man absolutely has the right to complain and judge who he's dealing with. The first date is a time in getting to know each other. If a woman respected a man's money and treated it as her own, she would try to choose a place that is within reason of what the man can afford. If she's a low class slut living in a trailer park on welfare, she's not going to convince me $400 dinner dates is a normal way of life for her.  Some men going to the FSU have been taken for $400+ dinner dates they can't afford. It's best they excuse themselves and tell that woman he can't afford that kind of dinner. If she dumps him, so be it. Better sooner than later because he will run out of money at that pace withing days anyway. A woman taking a man to a first date $400 dinner is about as classy as a man asking for sex before dinner.

I don't necessarily disagree mind you, but let me play devils advocate here a little.  Just because a woman is poor and lives in a less desirable place does not necessarily mean she is a "slut."  Just because she personally cannot afford to dine in an expensive restaurant, does not mean she has not been treated to dinning there by previous dates.  The young woman in the OP, obviously had a history of dinning in the expensive restaurant.  Is it her fault that previous men may have taken her to the place?  Is it too far a stretch to think maybe she thought this was "normal" fare for a date with a foreign man?  Remember we are talking about a 19 or 20 yo girl that may not have been mature enough to understand not to over extend a new man's budget, especially on the first date.  Point being that other men may have enabled this young girl with a distorted view of dating reality.

Taking this a step further; isn't it the responsibility of the man to set the financial standards if he indeed the one paying?  If a man gives his date "carte blanche" then does he have the right to complain after? :noidea:
KenC

[SMS60]

Taking this a step further; isn't it the responsibility of the man to set the financial standards if he indeed the one paying?  If a man gives hisdate "carte blanche" then does he have the right to complain after? :noidea:
KenC

Actually it should not get to this point. The man takes the lead in the initial stages of dating. Planning the what, when, and where. If the woman balks????......this can tell the man a lot about the woman. If she is genuinely interested, she wont say a word about the what,when and where. She will be happy to be in your company.

[I/O]

I am of the opinion that most "pro-daters" are made or developed because of the shear amount of foolish foreign men more than willing to let their wallets do their bidding for the woman's attention.  The mentality of the men's thoughts on Mail Order Brides taints their "game" much more than even they realize.

KenC: It is not only the foreigners they play the game with. Go spend time and look, you’ll see it…………iffffffffff you spend enough time observing. AJ touched on it, different game now, same basics but much more sophisticated. Plenty of the local boys get shafted so the hapless foreigner is canon fodder.

I think the definition most are concerned about is the “serial” pro-dater.

[BillyB]

 But doesn't the lack of sincerity cement the issue?

Playing one's emotions for personal gain is lacking sincerity in my book so it does cement the issue. A pro dater's actions are as insincere as a man who advertises himself as family oriented and marriage minded to get family oriented and marriage minded women in bed for his personal gain.

let me play devils advocate here a little.  Just because a woman is poor and lives in a less desirable place does not necessarily mean she is a "slut."  Just because she personally cannot afford to dine in an expensive restaurant, does not mean she has not been treated to dinning there by previous dates.  The young woman in the OP, obviously had a history of dinning in the expensive restaurant.  Is it her fault that previous men may have taken her to the place?  Is it too far a stretch to think maybe she thought this was "normal" fare for a date with a foreign man?  Remember we are talking about a 19 or 20 yo girl that may not have been mature enough to understand not to over extend a new man's budget, especially on the first date.  Point being that other men may have enabled this young girl with a distorted view of dating reality.

Taking this a step further; isn't it the responsibility of the man to set the financial standards if he indeed the one paying?  If a man gives his date "carte blanche" then does he have the right to complain after? :noidea:
KenC

I used one extreme with another extreme such as low class trailer trash slut looking for dining in the finest establishments but it was only to make a point. It really doesn't matter what the age of the person is, it's no excuse. Good manners are available to everybody. If by some chance a young naive girl chooses to dine at an expensive restaurant to show she has good tastes, then it's up to the man to report to her he's no Bill Gates/Oligarch.

Most men ask their lady on a first date where she wants to eat without discussing how much they can afford. It is good manners but it is bad manners on her part to think it's a blank check to have a $2000 meal. Would you Ken stay quiet if a woman took you into a restaurant that is outrageously priced for 99.99% of the population or would you complain?

Only a handful  men in this World can do $400 dinner dates on a regular basis. There's a whole lot of women who want to be a Bill Gates/Oligarch girlfriend though. No matter how young the women are, they understand the value of money. They know most men are not Bill Gates or an Oligarch but they choose to spend the man's money as if they are. They are partially or entirely to blame for the expensive dinners their date can't afford or they're just naive and stupid. Being a pro dater or stupid aren't labels to be proud of.

Men can be stupid too. Ideally, before visiting any woman, the man and woman should have described their lifestyle and already concluded if they can accept each others lifestyle and if they should even meet. There's no reason small town modest life farm boy should be visiting/dating a RW Paris Hilton wannabe.

I've never complained to a woman about the restaurant she took me too but I do question her motives if the restaurant is not a place she can afford herself or basically not part of the lifestyle she's accustomed too.

[Misha]

Taking this a step further; isn't it the responsibility of the man to set the financial standards if he indeed the one paying?  If a man gives his date "carte blanche" then does he have the right to complain after? :noidea:

You are right, if a man is paying, he also has a right to say no. He can say no to the bottles of wine/champagne costing hundreds of dollars, he can say no to the extravagant meals, he can say no to the shopping sprees. For this reason, I have no pity for the men complaining about "pro-daters." If a woman walks out on a date simply because you did not buy her a pair of shoes or said no to some other extravagant expense, then she was not a woman worth keeping IMHO. If men are so desperate that they think they must spend piles of money to attract and keep a woman, they will be fleeced sooner or later and should not whine afterward

[KenC]

SMS,
I agree 100% that is up to the man to take charge and lead the way in the beginning stages of dating.  I sure as Hell would never allow a 19 yo dictate the itinerary as the OP did.  What kind of girly man would let a teenager lead him around by his nose?  And then complain about it after the fact?   Where were his balls when it was happening to him?

I/O,
Totally agree with you dude.  From what I know, a typical Russian dude will spend his last ruble to make his gf happy.  I was just addressing it from the foreign guy angle.

Misha,
My wallet, my decision.  Handyscam could said "no" at any point it time while it was happening to him. Shame on him for only having some "virtual" balls and only able to recognise the problem after the fact.

Billy,
We're on the same page.  But here is where my opinion/style differs from yours slightly:
I believe it is totally up to the man to make the decision of where to dine on the first date.  It is up to the man to invite the woman to dine at a restaurant of his choice. She can agree or decline, her choices.  If a guy takes your approach and offers the choice of restaurants to the woman, he has the choice to agree or decline.  If he knows the place is over his budget, then he should decline the suggestion at the time it is made.  If he accepts her suggestion and unknowingly agrees to go to a place too rich for his blood, then shame on him for agreeing in the first place.  Shut up, pay the bill and don't go back, lesson learned.  The lesson is about the restaurant AND the lady making the choice.

Short related story.  A few years ago, Lena and I went on a cruise with a husband and wife members here.  The night before the cruise we all went to dinner at a South Beach restaurant.  Very cool and trendy place with seating right on the street.  Food was great.  Service superb.  When the bill came, my jaw hit the ground.  It was $650 IIRC.  Shame on me for not realizing there were no prices listed in the menu!  The restaurant didn't publicize the prices nor DID I ASK.  Shame on me, shut up, pay the bill and learn to ask in the future.
KenC

[Gator]

You know she is a pro-dater if SHE LEADS THE MAN TO SHOPS AND THERE SHE ASKS FOR PRESENTS.

This other stuff about expensive restaurants, costly private tours (with a possible kickback), taxis etc. is debatable, yet the man should take the lead as KenC, Misha, SMS et al have stated. 

BTW, I think it foolish for the man to choose the restaurant without first talking with his date.  She should know more than a stranger about restaurants.   Ask if she has a suggestion and why.  Nevertheless, the man must ultimately choose.  If you go to a restaurant and discover it too expensive, leave or order something simple (or better yet, tell the woman to take your photo because you will never come back  ). 

And then there is I/O’s point about “serial” .  She could be a pro-dater if she has a long history with an agency.    We know what we call a man who makes 5-10 trips to the FSU yet never starts a serious relationship.

[BillyB]

I believe it is totally up to the man to make the decision of where to dine on the first date.  It is up to the man to invite the woman to dine at a restaurant of his choice.

That is a good idea and I actually practice that idea whenever possible when I date locally. If she doesn't like McDonalds, I'll dump her! If she likes dinner, then I'll take her to the library for entertainment. The cinema is overated and you never get the complete story anyway as you would in a book.

Unfortunately in the FSU it becomes more difficult for a guy to choose any restaurant because of the fact he doesn't know a good one from a bad, a cheap low class one from an overpriced one from one that's decent and within his budget. He has to rely on a RW for some guidence on where to go, what to do, and where to eat in her town. Hopefully she is respectable and mindful of her man's financial situation instead of assuming he's Donald Trump.

A couple of RW I met on the streets took me to Ukrainian kitchens which are Ukrainian buffet/cafeteria style eating establishments. I had to force my way to pay for one of the lady's meal because she said that I'm a guest in her country and I shouldn't be paying for her meal. She was a good hostess and had good manners. With sweet polite ladies like that, there is no reason to roll with Paris Hilton wannabes.

[KenC]

Gator,
I agree that a pro-dater is the opposite of a sex tourist.  Both having sincerity as the distinguishing factor.  

You know she is a pro-dater if SHE LEADS THE MAN TO SHOPS AND THERE SHE ASKS FOR PRESENTS.

OK, agreed.  What if she just accepts gifts and special treatment that men offer?  Is she still a pro-dater?

I see these guys going to the fsu and lavashing the woman (women) with expensive gifts, expensive dinners and even expensive vacations and then when she does not respond to the stimuli in the expected manner, they are labled a pro-dater.

As for "serial" dater, couldn't you be classified the same because of being cautious and taking a longer time than usual before making a commitment to marry?  Is lack of commitment the same as serial dating?  What the hell does that make Turboguy in his 8 year quest to find the right woman?  

Billy,
Totally agree with the dilemma of being at the mercy of the lady while being in her home country.  However, there are many ways around that if a guy doesn't know the woman very well.  First off, he could ask here at RWD before going to the fsu.  The membership here LIVES for such questions.  Secondly, he could research the city through other means before his trip.  When I met Lena in Moscow, I came with a list of restaurants and clubs where we could go while there.  I also checked with the concierge of the hotel.  An interpreter would also be a good source of information too, if you were using one.

I distinctly remember feeling like a 12 year old on the first day and a half on my first trip being led around by the terps/guides.  I also remember physically making the "timeout" sign and telling them that that was NOT how my trip was going to be.  I took charge and called the shots from then on.  Of course I listened to their input and suggestions, but I made it clear that we were going to do things my way, not theirs.
KenC

[BillyB]

there are many ways around that if a guy doesn't know the woman very well.  First off, he could ask here at RWD before going to the fsu.  The membership here LIVES for such questions.  Secondly, he could research the city through other means before his trip.  

Most men never find a forum like this for tips and how to spot insincere women. Most men don't think about Googling for information to get around the FSU. They just assume the woman they are visiting is going to take care of them well and protect them from all harm since she already loves them She could be the shark they are trying to avoid.

Sometimes I see worried noobs come here and I get the impression that they are just hoping to make it out of the FSU alive. I've been to the FSU 10 or 11 times now. I lost count. I've never needed a terp, agency, or guide to get around. Not everybody is me. Some men need a reliable person to hold their hand especially on their fist visit. Sometimes the one that hold his hand leads him astray. Only until they buy those $200 pair of shoes out of love do they realize that this is not exactly how they dreamed their meeting with their woman to be. Some men dream coming to the FSU as a Knight and hero on a white horse to rescue a beautiful innocent damsel out of living in poverty. He did not expect to be caught off guard fighting financally for his life against the very damsel he came to rescue!