Meeting with a Pro-Dater. My Story.

[Jumper]

It means it's not going to happen.  And it's confirmed.  Not an option.  Do you suggest there's another meaning?

i suggest you COULD make it more clear,  or people wouldn't be asking you to clarify.


Is the OP is barred from getting any spousal visa?

How can you know for certain, the information you have is even  about the OP?
because you talked to a woman on facebook? or a questionable  agency?


Valence, anything is possible, but don't expect to throw that kind of **** against the wall,
and not be questioned.

[Handycam72]

You are legally barred from sponsoring her spouse visa until 2013.  I have confirmed this.

Now I am sat here reading this and I'm thinking what the hell are you talking about. So could you enlighten us all.
How can I be barred from something that was never requested?

Don't ,whatever you do, comeback with the line "I have spoken to her on Facebook" a simple search on there shows she has NO profile on there. Or even say "I have spoken to someone who knows someone else, whose brother has a best friend who once met a guy down the local supermarket and they got talking."

Don't tell me, you have inside information at UK Immigration, who will freely tell you anything you want to know, about anyone!!!!

Legally barred from sponsoring a woman he doesn't want...Hmm, not much loss there:)

I couldn't of put it better myself JR.  

[valence]

Legally barred from sponsoring a woman he doesn't want...Hmm, not much loss there:)

Agreed.  And had he told her that from the beginning, the whole thing could have been avoided.

[Handycam72]

Legally barred from sponsoring a woman he doesn't want...Hmm, not much loss there:)

Agreed.  And had he told her that from the beginning, the whole thing could have been avoided.

is this some kind riddle?

[Gator]

Reminds me of my ex-wife when she forgot to take her meds.

[KenC]

Legally barred from sponsoring a woman he doesn't want...Hmm, not much loss there:)

Well JR,
It does kind of matter though.  Handycam DID go over hoping to get laid, so he DID "want" the woman in that way.  If Handycam is legally barred from bringing a foreign wife into the UK that would make him a sex tourist of the worst order.

Comments, Handycam? :noidea:
KenC
Edited to add:
Handycam,
I didn't see your posts following JR's when I wrote the above.  So you deny that there is any problem in you obtaining a visa for a potential spouse?
KenC

[valence]

Well JR,
It does kind of matter though.  Handycam DID go over hoping to get laid, so he DID "want" the woman in that way.  If Handycam is legally barred from bringing a foreign wife into the UK that would make him a sex tourist of the worst order.

Insightful and dead-on accurate.

[KenC]

Insightful and dead-on accurate.

Valence,
How credible is your information?  We need a little more than just your statement that it is a fact.  If you cannot give a logical explanation of how you came about this information then Handycam's denial is of equal weight.
KenC

[valence]

May one be permitted to engage the private message facility? 

[KenC]

May one be permitted to engage the private message facility? 

Of course you may, however your accusation was made publicly.

[valence]

Ok, stay public.

I need to establish credibility.  That seems reasonable I guess.  Beforehand, let me ask how come HandiCam was never asked for credible proof of his accusation?  Where are his receipts backing up the claims of his expenses?  Where are photos proving they were together? 

The guy came in here and published a lengthy narrative followed up with personal details of someone and everybody bought it no questions asked.  I am, on the other hand, challenged to provide something credible.  That's because I wrote that all is not as it seems and perhaps the guy is just as guilty as the girl. 

You wackos are quite happy to see a specifically identified woman, name and all, dragged through the dirt with no questions asked; and yet then rise to the defence of an internet moniker named 'HandiCam' and demand credible proof. 

There's rather a large difference between an internet moniker 'HandiCam' and a specific individual with a recognizable name and address, hence my enquiry to use PM. 

I suppose the wackos in here do not see the asymmetry of this thread, and thus would not accredit any other information as convincing either.  After all, the girl is FSU and therefore a scammer, right?

So instead of getting further into it with personal details, why don't some of you losers read this notice from the Home Office http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/marriagevisaagetorise

which is dated 4 November 2008, which is 13 months ago!  This much about HandiCam's circumstances is in the public domain.

 Name-calling is inappropriate.

[greg2654]

I need to establish credibility.  That seems reasonable I guess.

Valence,
When you stated that HC was barred from sponsoring another woman you were insinuating that you had some sort of legal authority that I doubt very much you have.

[valence]

Please keep to the words I actually wrote.  Whacko's are not in a viable position to suggest what I 'insinuated' because (as I also wrote) they have an asymmetric perception that does not allow variation from their own viewpoint.

[Timothy]

Per the article, the visa age is 21 for applicants to Great Britain.

Per our readings, we all know the girl's age was 18 when he visited her. In most countries that is considered a legal age.

I'm not advocating that a 37yo man should be involved with an 18yo woman. She did in fact agree to meet him, didn't she?

Ken C: As a longtime member which I respect in that regard, you did post that you married a woman 25 years younger than you? And if you are 57 now and have been married more than 5 years, then that would at least put you at a minimum 52 and her at 27 at the time you met--a bigger age difference than Handicam and his girl. So I guess it comes down to whatever someone believes is an acceptable maturity age to date.
Personally myself at 41, I wouldn't get involved with someone younger than 28-30 but in my other thread a girl at 25 began to supposedly write to me (but I was involved in translation scam so who knows) and at first it seemed to me she had a high degree of maturity.

It's hard to imagine someone who would write a story like that which took a considerable amount to write just to gain acceptance on this (or any) board for sympathy.

Valence stated that "Handicam" was unable to do her spouse visa until 2013.

Handicam, were you aware of this ruling to raise the age to 21 before you visited her?

Unless Handicam is on a registered sex offender's list, I don't see the validity of proof in the accusations that he is a sex tourist. On the other hand, Handicam, writng to her emails about her thoughts and ideas of sex was in my view wrong and lessened your character, given her age. Can you explain to us what your primary objectives were when you met her and what you expected?

Although Handicam made some serious mistakes in meeting this girl in the first place due to age, I am more inclined to believe that corrupt dating agencies do the things which he states such as overpriced taxi services, clients and their translators ordering the most expensive meals,etc on the first day.  In that regard, I consider his thread helpful.




Valence: I take offence at your words of calling other readers of this board "losers' and "wackos"
Those are personal attacks

[KenC]

 valence,
If you read back in this thread you will find that I have been holding Handycam's feet to the fire from the beginning and have been roundly criticized for doing so.  His story smacked of sour grapes from the beginning to me.
KenC

[valence]

valence,
If you read back in this thread you will find that I have been holding Handycam's feet to the fire from the beginning and have been roundly criticized for doing so.  His story smacked of sour grapes from the beginning to me.
KenC

Sincere apologies to you KenC.  I have respected your judgement in this forum for a long time and I hope to make it clear that I do not associate you with the whackos who sometimes show up here seeking sympathy. 

To anyone following this thread please note my apology to KenC.  Sando, if you are following this thread, a similar sentiment is extended to you.  And a few others. 

[greg2654]

Please keep to the words I actually wrote.  Whacko's are not in a viable position to suggest what I 'insinuated' because (as I also wrote) they have an asymmetric perception that does not allow variation from their own viewpoint.

Valence - 4Q2

[tim 360]

valence,
If you read back in this thread you will find that I have been holding Handycam's feet to the fire from the beginning and have been roundly criticized for doing so.  His story smacked of sour grapes from the beginning to me.
KenC

Valence,  I don't think many (whackos) were defending handy on this thread.  His actions are nothing for anyone to admire or defend at all.  He behaved like a spiteful little $itch to a mere teenager posting her all over the internet as a scammer.

[Jumper]

valence ,
This went 9 pages exactly BECAUSE people where asking hard questions of handicam and his actions.

stop back peddling, you certainly publically  insinuated that HANDICAM couldn't legally get a UK marriage visa.
and still are.
The general "UK regulation"  you could have posted  initially?
why wouldn't you?

Don't come back now like you were somehow crucified.? it would have been quite easy for you to initially post
 the UK visa reasons that ,the GIRL in question, wouldn't have been able to qualify for  a UK marriage visa

Noone seems to be  defending Handi's actual actions in anyway...
and most stated , or agree, he shouldn't have posted her personal details.

Posting the UK qualification, does clear at least the eiligbilty of her getting a marriage visa ,  thanks.

Someone outlining - that this agency or this girl is a scam, because
A, B and C  details
is quite the normal practice on this forum.

Posting-
I KNOW this girl (lets say a member)
is a scammer - but you will have to PM me for details is a bit different 
and would certainly be questioned by the readership.

 you can't see this distinction?

[valence]

There's a whole lot more to it, but I have received an official warning from the moderators so I'll bow out. 

[Admin]

There's a whole lot more to it, but I have received an official warning from the moderators so I'll bow out. 

The warning was for name-calling.

If you have something elucidative, please contribute.

- Dan

[KenC]

Per the article, the visa age is 21 for applicants to Great Britain.

Per our readings, we all know the girl's age was 18 when he visited her. In most countries that is considered a legal age.

I'm not advocating that a 37yo man should be involved with an 18yo woman. She did in fact agree to meet him, didn't she?

Ken C: As a longtime member which I respect in that regard, you did post that you married a woman 25 years younger than you? And if you are 57 now and have been married more than 5 years, then that would at least put you at a minimum 52 and her at 27 at the time you met--a bigger age difference than Handicam and his girl. So I guess it comes down to whatever someone believes is an acceptable maturity age to date.
Personally myself at 41, I wouldn't get involved with someone younger than 28-30 but in my other thread a girl at 25 began to supposedly write to me (but I was involved in translation scam so who knows) and at first it seemed to me she had a high degree of maturity.

It's hard to imagine someone who would write a story like that which took a considerable amount to write just to gain acceptance on this (or any) board for sympathy.

Valence stated that "Handicam" was unable to do her spouse visa until 2013.

Handicam, were you aware of this ruling to raise the age to 21 before you visited her?

Unless Handicam is on a registered sex offender's list, I don't see the validity of proof in the accusations that he is a sex tourist. On the other hand, Handicam, writng to her emails about her thoughts and ideas of sex was in my view wrong and lessened your character, given her age. Can you explain to us what your primary objectives were when you met her and what you expected?

Although Handicam made some serious mistakes in meeting this girl in the first place due to age, I am more inclined to believe that corrupt dating agencies do the things which he states such as overpriced taxi services, clients and their translators ordering the most expensive meals,etc on the first day.  In that regard, I consider his thread helpful.

Timothy,
There is a big difference between going to meet a much younger woman with sincere intentions and going to the fsu to get some young tail that you KNOW you cannot bring back to your country.  I have never advocated that anyone push the envelope as far as I did in marrying a woman 25 years my junior, however my judgement was a tad better than Handicam as we were married for 11 years.  My only references to Handicam's age difference with his teenage love interest was in regard to his being duped by a child and then crying about it here.

BTW, Handicam's intentions were clear when he told us that he put up with her simple ruse because he was thinking with his "little head."  You putting the blame on the agency is like Handicam putting it all on the girl.  Where is Handicam's responsibility in all this?  Yes, the agency may have had a hand in it and the girl is no angel for sure, but Handicam knew he was getting played and put up with it in hopes to get laid.  A fool and his money will soon be parted.
KenC

[Gylden]

KenC,
Are you no longer married?

[KenC]

KenC,
Are you no longer married?

Technically yes, but realistically no.  Waiting for the paperwork to finish with the court system here.
KenC

[Handycam72]

KenC

First of all, may I say that you have been very consistent in your viewpoints with regard to my initial report, to which I respect. Now with regard to this whole Marriage Visa and being "Legally Barred" from obtaining a visa for a potential spouse, I can tell you that I am not barred, banned or have any problems in this regard.

Other Points Raised

The raise in age from 18 to 21 is not something I was aware of, on saying that, if relations would of developed between myself and the girl in question. The earliest such an application could be made, would of been end of November 2010.

Now I expect I will get flamed for this, but I will say it anyway. My intentions when going there were to meet someone I had been communicating with for 12 months, I had no pre-determined plan of what was going to happen, as far as I was concerned I was going to Odessa for a holiday, and meet someone who I had been communicating with beforehand, if we came away friends, great, if it developed into something more, a bonus.
Now before everyone starts flaming me, and saying I did not say that in my report, and I said I was thinking with my small head. Let me clarify my point, I allowed myself to be taken in, my weakness was her youth, it did wonders for the ego.

Valence

Explain how you gone from this:

Based upon what you have written, the taxi driver would be the organizer and manager of the scam, and NOT necessarily Nastya's boyfriend.  The alternate taxi driver is probably the best candidate for boyfriend.  The translator would be in on it, but at flat or agreed upon rates.   The day 1 restaurant was in on it, and I would heartily disagree that the waitress' hostility to Nastya was because of moral indignation as you suggest,   Kristina would be introduced in the day 3 opportunity scam so as to have someone who could conveniently disappear with cash etc without disrupting the plot. 

I like the teddy bear supposition you gave.  It's charming.  I doubt she would have have kept them as you suggested, but rather would have returned them for a refund and purchased a cheaper one for the next guy. 

Based on the numbers you helpfully provided, it looks like the driver would have cleared just over USD 1,000 plus whatever he got in soft dollars from the restaurant or other players along the way.  Nastya's take would be a part of that.  My best estimate is that to live comfortably in Odessa, they would need to do this about 15 times a year.

That's my take.  It could be absolute poop for all I know.  Adding on to what the others have said, I would have been gone at the restaurant stage on day 1. 

It's a shame the BBC doc team wasn't tailing you.

To This:
(BTW, as you say your living in the UK, Ukraine is 2+ timezones, might help if you ever go there ):

All totally interesting.  HandyCam, I apologize for having assumed you were American and therefore 10+ timezones away from your lady instead of a mere 4+ timezones away.  Who knows?  Perhaps 6 timezones makes all the difference in the world?

As a matter of adjacent interest to those following this thread, I am befriending said pro-dater in Face Book.  Also the so-called 'scammer' who got reported by the lunatic Dutchman who was here a few weeks back and whose thread got deleted.  Adding them to my FB friends; inviting them to be my neighbors in Farmville (for those familiar with FB's networking game).  Also, I'm interested in their side of the story. 

Note: a quick and simple search on Facebook and she does not appear to be on said website. So Valence, how do befriend someone who is not there? or did you waste many many hours searching?

Then This:

In point of fact, and omitted from your story but included in her side of the story, is that you had been deceiving her from the outset about your intentions.  So it was both sides of the affair deceiving each other and they simply outfoxed you at your own game.  So who's to blame?

And what turned my sentiment negative is that you threatened her and then sought vengence against her and then sought sympathy from internet forums whilst at the same time pretending to be nobly 'advising' people and glossing over the fact that you started it all and they simply played along with you.  It is not an adult  behaviour pattern of a gent in his late 30's I should think.

And  your cracker of a post, this:

You are legally barred from sponsoring her spouse visa until 2013.  I have confirmed this.

A statement which you seem to have made on the basis of info from a website.

To finally this:

Ok, stay public.

I need to establish credibility.  That seems reasonable I guess.  Beforehand, let me ask how come HandiCam was never asked for credible proof of his accusation?  Where are his receipts backing up the claims of his expenses?  Where are photos proving they were together? 

The guy came in here and published a lengthy narrative followed up with personal details of someone and everybody bought it no questions asked.  I am, on the other hand, challenged to provide something credible.  That's because I wrote that all is not as it seems and perhaps the guy is just as guilty as the girl. 

You wackos are quite happy to see a specifically identified woman, name and all, dragged through the dirt with no questions asked; and yet then rise to the defence of an internet moniker named 'HandiCam' and demand credible proof. 

There's rather a large difference between an internet moniker 'HandiCam' and a specific individual with a recognizable name and address, hence my enquiry to use PM. 

I suppose the wackos in here do not see the asymmetry of this thread, and thus would not accredit any other information as convincing either.  After all, the girl is FSU and therefore a scammer, right?

So instead of getting further into it with personal details, why don't some of you losers read this notice from the Home Office http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/marriagevisaagetorise

which is dated 4 November 2008, which is 13 months ago!  This much about HandiCam's circumstances is in the public domain.

Name-calling is inappropriate.

I have an idea Valence, how about you send me a PM, telling me what amazing info you have discovered about me, will you do that?
In fact don't PM me, write it here for all to see, plus your source for this so called info.

Or should I just say that all this BS you have written is you trying to prove a point with regard to people making reports such as mine, with what you see as very little proof. That is what all this is about.